Hank and Gomez getting killed, thats just an occupational hazard I think, as Saul would say
Jesse should have just left with Ed, period.
I agree with both these points. I think Hank getting killed was largely his own fault, I feel more badly for Gomie because Hank sort of dragged him into the whole situation but then again he should have stood his ground and refused to go rogue. I feel like Hank should have put his own, Gomie and Jesse's safety before his career and not gone to confront Walt on his own. If they had stormed the desert with half the DEA, surely Jack and co would have ended up dead or arrested.
And yes, Jesse should have left with Ed. I get that he was angry, but what happened to him after could have been avoided if he had just kept his calm and gone away. I understand why he didn't, and why he wanted vengeance on Walt, but in hindsight it was a very bad call on his part. But Walt also brought being ratted on on himself, he never would have had to poison Brock in the first place and created that situation if he hadn't gone on his "I hope you get buried in the Mexican desert!" freak out in 'Bug'. He completely alienated Jesse in that episode, only to predictably need him back just a couple of episodes later. It was very shortsighted on his part - if he indeed was worried (and rightfully so) about Gus wanting to replace him with Jesse the stupidest thing he could do was anger Jesse. Actually, again applying the benefit of hindsight, if Jesse had simply let Gus kill Walt after returning from Mexico, most of our main characters would have been better off. I didn't want that to happen though, because I did feel like Gus had to be taken down.
When Hank cornered him at Walt's house though, Jesse really had no other option than to rat on Walt. As far as he (and Hank) knew he was dead the moment the APD or the DEA took him in, since everyone else who knew of Heisenberg's operation ended up dead in prison - rat or no rat. So it was kill or get killed type of a scenario, and I guess the reason I enjoyed it so much is that for once Jesse had the upper hand on Walt, although he was totally at Hank's mercy. I'm extremely biased because Jesse's my favorite TV character of all time though. Also from a pure story-telling point of view, I loved the whole scheme they pulled to get Walt into the desert. That drive to To'hajiilee and the phone call is one of my favorite scenes in the whole show.
When he called him and his son asked him 'why are you still alive? Why wont you just die already?'holy F...i personally felt horrible for him
Oh man, yes, that was brutal! But like what's-his-name said, maybe I am a sadist, because in a way I enjoyed it... What I always liked about Breaking Bad is that the main characters felt so realistic, most of Walt's "I'm so badass" moments were a simple facade, behind it he acted like a normal human being would (he panicked, despaired and feared in situations where most people would.) I don't really enjoy many "alpha male" type protagonists, and seeing Walt brought so low and visibly so upset about it made him feel even more real, and I did feel chagrined for him even though I had so long ago lost most sympathy for his plight.
I always enjoy reading your posts because I know they're always well thought out and interesting.
Right back at you.
Do you even know what honor is?
- A horse.
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swolbach
8 years ago
Good points.
Don't think Jesse should have even gone to the desert with Hank and Gomey. He should have made a deal ahead of time, that he gets left go if he gives them Heisenberg. Once he completed the call and Walt confessed, he should have headed right for Ed.
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lief_peterson
8 years ago
Thats something I thought was VERY stupid on Jesse's part. He never made any kind of deal whatsoever. I know he was preoccupied with his revenge plans, but damn. He really should have negotiated some sort of immunity or reduced sentence..or better yet just let him walk away after he helped them, like you said.
I guess they were trying to show Jesse really didn't give a sh!t as long as they got Walt, but he still had plenty to lose.
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swolbach
8 years ago
Yeah, since they would likely have used his confession tape along with the call as evidence (assuming they can get the recording of the call), Jesse would have confessed to murder, so would need to use Ed to stay free, IMO.
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InglouriousSister
8 years ago
Don't think Jesse should have even gone to the desert with Hank and Gomey. He should have made a deal ahead of time, that he gets left go if he gives them Heisenberg. Once he completed the call and Walt confessed, he should have headed right for Ed.
I don't think he could go to Ed anymore though since I think Saul said it was a "one time opportunity." Realistically thinking, I think Jack and co would have found him and made him their meth slave anyways, whether or not he had been in the desert. Jesse was doomed the moment he ratted on Walt (or no, the moment he tried burning down his house actually) but at least he took Walt and even Hank who he hated down with him...kind off. Although I think Jesse would probably have been better off being summarily executed in prison or a safe house somewhere, than being held prisoner by a bunch of Nazis for months. And Andrea wouldn't have died, something I am sure Jesse will never forgive himself for.
Do you even know what honor is?
- A horse.
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lief_peterson
8 years ago
Oh come on now, how bad did Jesse have it, really?
I mean...they gave him ice cream LOL 😁
No I think we talked about this in another thread, but Jesse should have struck a deal with hank and Gomez. That would definitely have been his best option. I mean, he wasn't completely screwed when hank caught him at walts. I'm not sure but I think the most they could have got him for was pretty minor stuff. Breaking and entering, maybe reckless driving? Since nobody was home at the time its not like he could have gotten charged for attempted murder and he hadn't set the place on fire yet so no arson charge either.
His teaming up with hank without a deal was unbelievably sloppy. He would have been better off letting hank charge him for the petty laws he had broken and then tried to kill Walt himself. Arrange a meet to talk somewhere private to make Walt let down his guard and then shot him and destroy the evidence...theres a lot of routes he could have gone to do it. Walt was open to mending their relationship after all.
Interesting idea about the nazis catching Jesse and using him as a slave either way, but not sure they wouldn't just have killed him for Walt like they were supposed to. I guess it would all have depended on Todd lol
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InglouriousSister
8 years ago
Loved that ice cream scene. Todd is just such a psycho. Like "sorry we tortured you and killed your girlfriend, but I brought two types of ice cream! Why are you moping?" I think the Jesse-Todd relationship in general is pretty fantastic, they are both Walt/Heisenberg's apprentices but the polar opposites of one another.
And yeah, Jesse really should have made a better deal with Hank, but in the end it would not have mattered I guess, since Hank got killed and all... He couldn't have let himself be taken in for any minor offense though, because as far as he knew (and he was probably correct) Walt would have organized a hit on him as soon as he was taken in somewhere.
Interesting idea about the nazis catching Jesse and using him as a slave either way, but not sure they wouldn't just have killed him for Walt like they were supposed to. I guess it would all have depended on Todd lol
Like they said in the desert, they didn't know what Jesse had told the DEA. So they would have had to bring Jesse in and torture that information out of him anyways. So I can't see them just killing Jesse on Walt's orders. I'm also not quite sure if Jesse would have skipped town at that point. Walt left his family at Jack's mercy (and they came pretty close to Skyler and Holly, so that was a bit of a gamble on Walt's part) but I don't think Jesse at that point could have done the same to Andrea and Brock. Would he have fled having ratted out a bunch of Neo Nazis, and left them behind, unprotected? As far as he knew they weren't in danger before (when he first contemplated leaving in Confessions) but surely he knew they were by To'Hajiilee, and that the Nazis would go after them to get to Jesse. So I doubt he would have left, unless Andrea agreed to go with him. Despite Jesse being so emotional and wearing his heart of his sleeve, I always thought he had more courage than Walt. I mean he had the balls to stand up to Gus (love that scene, even Mike looks surprised) for a child he had never met, and was ready to die for it. Of course there, as often was the case, Jesse's courage manifested itself as recklessness and folly...
Do you even know what honor is?
- A horse.
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akshayug05
8 years ago
i enjoyed Jesse's Suffering a lot, as he did bring same to Mr. White.
I lloved the scene where Neo Nazis kiling Andrea, hope that burns you😎
"Karma is a Bitch"
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lief_peterson
8 years ago
That was rude and unnecessary dude...
Only twisted people like the idea of an innocent girl getting killed...you should probably address that with a professional. Get some help.
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akshayug05
8 years ago
Innocent huh, while some are ok with Whole Walt's Family getting burned by Jesse. i say he derved to lose someone he loves so much, that's his punishment. in breaking Bad everybody got punishment what they deserve, that makes BB perfect.
even after she knowing Jesse is a Criminal, drug dealer, while she already knew the consequences of it (her Brother) she knew the risks, she died, its no big dead.
even Walt's family was in danger Hank the innocent guy killed whats say now bitch?
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lief_peterson
8 years ago
What?? I seriously cant even make sense out of your post lol
Anyways, good talk
Cheers 😊
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ErgonomicSpliff
8 years ago
in breaking Bad everybody got punishment what they deserve, that makes BB perfect.
No.
Badger and Skinny Pete were not punished in any way. They were just as much in cahoots with Jesse and Walt as Combo was. Hank had a hot temper but did beating Jesse to within an inch of his life mean that Hank deserved to be shot in the face by Jack? I guess that's up to the moral code of the viewer. However, I can't see what kind of moral code would dictate being killed in the desert is an appropriate punishment for beating on a perp, especially a perp who caused so much mental anguish with his phony phone call.
I think that everyone who was a major player in BrBa with the exceptions of Brock, Holly and Flynn had some sort of come-uppance due them, but to say that each received a fair punishment in relation to everyone else is just silly.
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akshayug05
8 years ago
Hank knew he was saved by Walt many times,(from Jesse and Gus) after Jesse Told him everything.
What Hank does? Tried to take out his entire Money, and destroy him as if he is an enemy.
he could have atleast become somewhat soft on him, or kind to him.
not saying to forgive him, but arrest him or wait him to die out of cancer.
yes hank deserved to die like that, that was also Big punishment for Walt.
"
fair punishment in relation to everyone else is just silly."
its not silly, Vince and his excellent creative genius writers made sure of that. the creators are smarter than u think.
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