What Do You Think Was The Worst Thing That Walt Did? *SPOILERS* - Breaking Bad (2008) Discussion

[–] dmcreif 8 years ago

Well there's the "confession", that dirty trick with the prank phone call to Hank to lure him away from the RV, poisoning Brock, killing Mike, the prison assassinations.....

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[–] THE_Hills_Have_Eyes991 8 years ago

Poisoning Brock. I know Walt felt he needed to do this but it's still really horrid to nearly kill an innocent little kid.

Killing Mike for no reason at all. Just because Mike said the absolute truth. Mike didn't hit him or threaten his life at all in that scene. Walter asked for the list of names once. He didn't even try to threaten Mike.

Killing a large group of men at once. If he wasn't so cheap and arrogant he could of easily found a way through Saul to pay them off.

Meet me at the waterfront after the social.

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[–] inasir927 8 years ago

i would go with killing mike

the RV trick wasnt THAT bad except he reacted of his emotions in the fear that his wife was hurt

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[–] dmcreif 8 years ago

But it started a chain of events that led to Hank getting shot.

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[–] lief_peterson 8 years ago

Mike tempted fate, he constantly berated and insulted Walt. He should have known that Walt had had enough by that point. Mike beat Walt down, tied him up, was seconds away from killing him on orders from Gus, and never showed him an ounce of respect...the Walt from before gus's death would take that to a degree, but after Mike's speech attacking walts ego, he was pushing his luck.

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[–] InglouriousSister 8 years ago

never showed him an ounce of respect

This is something I really liked about Mike. Mike, but also Hank and Jesse, were in so many ways a lot braver and ballsier than Walt was. Walt rarely openly defied anyone who had authority over him - sure he planned behind their backs to get them murdered but he wouldn't dare say anything to their face. Not like Mike telling Walt exactly what he thought of him, or like Jesse telling Gus no after getting that lecture from him (when Walt had snitched to Gus Jesse's plans to kill those two drug dealers), or like Hank not begging for his life and calling out Walt's pathetic bargaining attempts that everyone knew would not work.

I'm not saying this as criticism of Walt, what I loved most about his character is that he wasn't some stereotypical "thug". He wasn't particularly courageous or badass, but he could pretend he was one (and by 5a he'd mastered the Saul Goodman approach - people believed he was badass because he believed it) when necessary.

Do you even know what honor is?
- A horse.

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] swolbach 8 years ago

"Worst thing" can be interpretted many ways...

Lawfully - The prison killings

Morally - Poisoning Brock, with letting Jane die a close second

Emotionally - Telling Jesse he watched Jane die and could have saved her...but he didn't

Trying to differentiate these is apples to oranges, IMO.

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[–] Doom 8 years ago

"Worst thing" can be interpretted many ways...

Lawfully - The prison killings

Morally - Poisoning Brock, with letting Jane die a close second

Emotionally - Telling Jesse he watched Jane die and could have saved her...but he didn't

Trying to differentiate these is apples to oranges, IMO.

I can't add anything to this. This is perfect.

------

Wait a minute... who am I here?

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[–] Rjb_0923 8 years ago

Well said. Absolute perfection IMO

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[–] swolbach 8 years ago

Wow, you guys are awesome!

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[–] akshayug05 8 years ago

killing mike and the prisoners are the only wrong things he could have avoided.

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[–] iAmTheOneWhoKnocks 8 years ago

Of all the things Walt did, killing Mike hit me the hardest. And I don't know if it's because I loved Mike so much or because Walt felt lost when he did it. Like he didn't know what he was doing because he realized he wasn't thinking straight.

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[–] lief_peterson 8 years ago

I think mike had that coming. Placing all the blame on Walt for the whole mess that became of gus's operation, when Jesse played a big role in that too. It was Jesse going after the two drug dealers that caused much of the rift between Gus and Walt. I think after the huge attack mike gave Walt placing the blame on him and attacking his ego, Walt had simply had enough. Walt wasn't planning on killing mike but after that, Walt had had enough and finally retaliated. Mike knew Walt was dangerous, and said he was a time bomb himself, he should have known Walt could have reacted the way he did, but I think he ultimately underestimated him. Mike was a fan favorite and his death turned a lot of people into Walt haters, but in the heat of the moment, after everything mike had done to Walt, he should have known that his outburst might have been capable of pushing Walt over the edge. If he kept his mouth shut, he would have safely driven away with his money imo.

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[–] iAmTheOneWhoKnocks 8 years ago

How do you figure that? Walt took Mikes gun so it was pretty clear he intended on killing him before driving off safely with his money. Not to mention he knew that Mike would come back for him after taking care of his 9 guys. Mike wouldn't just let that slide.

And knowing that Walt was dangerous doesn't mean he could have predicted that Walt was unhinged. He was methodical. He killed Gus Fring. That shows patience and strategy. Walt's reaction to Mike's rant came completely out of left field. No one could have predicted he would have acted that way. Certainly not the audience. Which is why it was probably the most shocking and depressing thing he did on the show imo.

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[–] lief_peterson 8 years ago

Thats what I mean though. Walt didnt go there with the intention of killing mike like that because thats not the way Walt would have taken mike out. He was always very meticulously planning how to kill people, he surely wouldn't have went there thinking to himself he'd shoot mike, that was not walts MO. Walt reacted the way he did because of what mike said to him. Walt could have just as easily taken the gun out of Mike's bag because for all he knew mike might try to shoot him, its not like it would be the first time.

Walt also left the gun in the car when he got out to speak to mike, I think if he went there with the plan to shoot mike he would have been totally friendly with mike, handed him the bag and when mike had his back turned to return to his car Walt would have shot him in the back or something. But he didnt even have the gun on him to talk to mike, it was after mikes verbal attack that Walt stormed back to the car to grab the gun to shoot him.

I totally understand what youre saying, Walt shooting him like that was very out of character, but on the other hand, people do things that are out of character all the time under different circumstances. It was unpredictable, but how much *beep* did he expect Walt to take?

This shows crazy, so many damn angles to look at lol you could be right, I'm not saying you aren't, I just never thought it was how Walt would have gone about killing mike if he had actually planned it, definitely not walt's style

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[–] iAmTheOneWhoKnocks 8 years ago

Thats what I mean though. Walt didnt go there with the intention of killing mike like that because thats not the way Walt would have taken mike out. He was always very meticulously planning how to kill people, he surely wouldn't have went there thinking to himself he'd shoot mike, that was not walts MO. Walt reacted the way he did because of what mike said to him. Walt could have just as easily taken the gun out of Mike's bag because for all he knew mike might try to shoot him, its not like it would be the first time.

He acted that way because Mike refused to give up his 9 guys. Walt wanted that list to cover his ass. Mike refused. And if he didn't intend on killing Mike then why would he take his gun? Let's say Mike gave up the list, and Walt was happy. Mike would get in his car, open his bag, and find no gun in his holster. At that point do you think Mike would be like "meh whatever. This ass hole just stole my gun, but we're friends cause I gave up my guys"? Taking Mike's gun, without intent to use it on him, would have been a death sentence. C'mon.

Walt also left the gun in the car when he got out to speak to mike, I think if he went there with the plan to shoot mike he would have been totally friendly with mike, handed him the bag and when mike had his back turned to return to his car Walt would have shot him in the back or something. But he didnt even have the gun on him to talk to mike, it was after mikes verbal attack that Walt stormed back to the car to grab the gun to shoot him.

It was after Mike refused the list. Walt can't be nice while simultaneously asking Mike to give up his guys so he can kill them.

I totally understand what youre saying, Walt shooting him like that was very out of character, but on the other hand, people do things that are out of character all the time under different circumstances. It was unpredictable, but how much *beep* did he expect Walt to take?

What sh!t was he giving Walt though? I don't remember Mike doing anything that called for what Walt did. Mike did his best to stay away from Walt. Only ever talked to him when he had to. All Mike ever did was follow orders. He was professional. I'm not seeing how Mike did all this stuff that you're alluding to. Over all the things Walt has been through on the show, you're saying that a few mean words from Mike is what set him off? I'm not buying it.

This shows crazy, so many damn angles to look at lol you could be right, I'm not saying you aren't, I just never thought it was how Walt would have gone about killing mike if he had actually planned it, definitely not walt's style

But that's my point. It's not Walt's style at all. It showcased how reckless Walt had become by the end. He allowed power and ego to manifest his personality. He wan't thinking clearly. He even told Mike before he died that he could have gotten those names from Lydia. He acted on impulse because he felt invincible. Which marked the point where I could no longer justify Walts actions. Mike was a close ally in Walt's business. And despite everything the two of them had been through, Walt took his life out of self preservation. it was at that point that I realized that Walt is not above killing people that are close to him.

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[–] lief_peterson 8 years ago

Mike was following orders when he beat his ass down in the bar? He was following orders when he constantly disrespected, insulted, threatened and berated Walt? He was following orders when he was going to shoot Walt after gus's death? Who ordered him to do any of that? Mike was always a total prick to Walt. And openly admitted his desire to kill him.

So if somebody was going to kill you on at least a couple of occasions, and beat the sh!t out of you, you wouldn't take it personal if they were on orders to do so? You'd be like no, no its cool man, no hard feelings lol

Walt wasn't going to kill Mike until Mike's big tirade. Walt was going there to get the list of names, and give him his go-bag, but he wasn't going there with the intention of killing Mike. What walts gonna just go there, instigate an argument to enrage mike, and then go 'perfect, my plan is coming together, now I run back to my car and shoot him!' Please

Walt killed mike purely because he couldn't stand getting called out on his BS. Mike bruised walts gigantic ego and it angered him to the point where he couldn't control himself and he grabbed the gun and shot him. Mike should have just taken the money, kept his mouth shut, and got out of there. If he didn't say all that, he would have lived. Pure and simple.

And if I was Walt, id be reluctant to hand a guy who's both attempted to and threatened to kill me, his gun. He probably took it to ensure it was less likely mike could shoot him with it, or if he had to defend himself from mike. I dont blame him for taking that precaution.

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[–] iAmTheOneWhoKnocks 8 years ago

Mike was following orders when he beat his ass down in the bar?

No. When Mike beat his ass at the bar, he was saving his sparing his life. Since following orders would have meant informing Gus of Walt's intent.

He was following orders when he constantly disrespected, insulted, threatened and berated Walt?

When was this?

He was following orders when he was going to shoot Walt after gus's death? Who ordered him to do any of that? Mike was always a total prick to Walt. And openly admitted his desire to kill him.

Not liking Walt, has nothing to do with your claims of "everything he put Walt through". Walt was reckless and made life hard for both Mike and Gus and somehow Mike is at fault for not liking him? What?

So if somebody was going to kill you on at least a couple of occasions, and beat the sh!t out of you, you wouldn't take it personal if they were on orders to do so? You'd be like no, no its cool man, no hard feelings lol

Considering they were on orders to kill me and didn't, I'd be thanking my lucky stars and buying them a beer.

Walt wasn't going to kill Mike until Mike's big tirade. Walt was going there to get the list of names, and give him his go-bag, but he wasn't going there with the intention of killing Mike. What walts gonna just go there, instigate an argument to enrage mike, and then go 'perfect, my plan is coming together, now I run back to my car and shoot him!' Please

You keep on saying this but you can't explain it. Why did Walt take Mike's gun if he no intention of killing him?

Walt killed mike purely because he couldn't stand getting called out on his BS. Mike bruised walts gigantic ego and it angered him to the point where he couldn't control himself and he grabbed the gun and shot him. Mike should have just taken the money, kept his mouth shut, and got out of there. If he didn't say all that, he would have lived. Pure and simple.

Again, you keep on saying this but aren't explaining how you came to this conclusion. Walt took Mike's gun. Did he think he was going to get away with that? There isn't a scenario where Walt walks away alive for taking Mike's gun. And Walt knew that Mike was not going to be ok with giving up his guys.

And if I was Walt, id be reluctant to hand a guy who's both attempted to and threatened to kill me, his gun. He probably took it to ensure it was less likely mike could shoot him with it, or if he had to defend himself from mike. I dont blame him for taking that precaution.

Yes, it's much less likely that Mike would shoot Walt if Walt took his gun. Genius logic. He could defend himself far better from Mike, by carrying his own weapon. Mike;s gun was in his bag. It would be much easier for Walt to unholster his weapon than it would be for Mike to grab his. Mike would have to unzip his bag, then grab his holstered gun, remove the gun from the holster, then point it at Walt. All Walt would have to do is reach into his jacket. Are you serious right now?

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[–] lief_peterson 8 years ago

Okay, then why didn't Walt just shoot him the instant he didn't give up the names? Why leave the gun in the car? Explain to me how that makes any sense, please

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[–] lief_peterson 8 years ago

And how did he know mike wasn't already armed? You think Walt went there with the plan that he was possibly going to have a shootout with mike?

I'm not sure what show you're watching, but it makes zero sense to me that Walt would leave the gun in the car if he went there with the plan to shoot Mike.

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[–] iAmTheOneWhoKnocks 8 years ago

Presumably because Mike's gun was in Walt's possession? Why would Mike need a gun when he knew he had one in his bag?

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[–] iAmTheOneWhoKnocks 8 years ago

Walt didn't have a holster. It was a big gun. Keeping out of Mike's sight would have been difficult. Especially considering Mike caught Walt's first revolver under his jacket when he brought it to the lab. Remember?

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[–] swolbach 8 years ago

If you don't mind me adding my 2 cents to this discussion, here are some of my takeaways on some of the points you've each made:

- Expect Walt was pretty sure Mike didn't have another gun. He had thrown them all down the well, preparing for the DEA raid on his house. His only gun was in the go bag.

- This was the only killing that Walt executed that wasn't planned out...at least not the way it happened, in a fit of rage (not considering Jane as a murder here).

- If Walt didn't plan on killing Mike, I don't think he felt Mike Would kill him just for keeping his gun out of the go bag. If Mike found out while they were still there together, think that would have been worthy of anothet beating, like he gave him at the bar. Now if Walt threatened Mike, pulled the gun on him, or something like that, that might be a different story.

- If Walt didn't get the names or if they just ended the conversation in disagreement, and Walt had the gun on his car seat, I don't think Walt would want to leave with the gun, since he'd know Mike would come after him for it. But I could see Walt driving by Mike, showing him the gun, then tossing it out the window. Think Walt would think that Mike knew he kept it for his safety and that tossing it back would be enough to keep Mike from going after him.

- The point that if Walt killed the guys in prison, but not Mike, that Mike might come after Walt for revenge, I believe is true. But really don't think Walt planned on killing Mike, at this time. However, I think it could have been similar to Jane's death, where Walt's mind was racing, except only in a fit of rage this time...and one of the thoughts in the back of his mind was...Mike dying will solve a major problem for me...the same as it did with Jane.

- That Mike could have just walked away...he actually was planning to leave without laying into Walt, but Walt called him out, asking for a thank you and the names again.

- Walt always despised Mike, for the things already mentioned, but also because he never acknowledged Walt as the "New Jesse James". He was also jealous of how Jesse looked up to Mike, left the new 3 man business with Mike, etc.

Overall, I don't think there is a definitive answer, but IMO he didn't have definite plans to kill Mike at that time. His main goal was to get those names and he kept the gun as leverage and safety, for that task. My take is that Walt, at that time, really did not know what he would do about Mike afterwards. But he would have a dilemna, whether he got the names or not.

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[–] lief_peterson 8 years ago

Funny. I was almost going to ask you to weigh in here with your thoughts swolbach lol

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[–] lief_peterson 8 years ago

Overall, the main point I was trying to make was that Walt killing mike wasn't premeditated, and happened in the heat of the moment. Ultimately, Mike's speech to Walt was what got him killed. I think Walt honestly had some hope that mike would give him the names, and thats why he was so eager to meet mike and give him his go bag. But, this is all just my opinion/theory.

Everyone can view the events that transpired on this show in any way they please, thats one of the things thats so amazing about this show, its so open to interpretation, and leaves people very divided with differing opinions.

If you want to believe that Walt was motivated to go meet mike to kill him, then I can't say if youre wrong or right. Only Vince Gilligan or Peter Gould can settle these things lol

Interesting arguement though, I think it should be its own thread if it hasn't been done already 'do you think Walt met Mike for the purpose of killing him?'

Agree to disagree I guess. Thanks for the 2 cents btw swolbach. Good game theonewhoknocks lol

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[–] swolbach 8 years ago

Even if VG says what he thinks happened, like the future of Jesse, it doesn't count until it's written and filmed. VG will often say something in an interview like..."I'd like to think Jesse made it...", but we can only speculate...he could change his mind tomorrow, it wouldn't matter...like you said, it's all fiction. If AMC told VG they'd give him a billion dollars to make a season 6, guess what, Walt would have survived the Finale.

However, some parts of the show are left up for interpretation and some are facts. Think Walt's plans for Mike with the gun fall into the speculation category, with some good points to back up either.

Personally, I don't think he knew for sure what he would do next...what he did know was that he needed those names and he'd be safer and have a better chance of getting them if he had Mike's gun. Hard to say he planned it all out to get the names, then kill Mike, etc. when he couldn't even remember that he could also get the names from Lydia.

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[–] akshayug05 8 years ago

series creators wanted Walt to become bad from good, so to look him bad they forced him to kill mike, otherwise the purpose would not have served as people still loved what walt did and felt he is the good guy. thats the terrible thing.

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[–] akshayug05 8 years ago

series creators wanted Walt to become bad from good, so to look him bad they forced him to kill mike, otherwise the purpose would not have served as people still loved what walt did and felt he is the good guy. thats the terrible thing.

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[–] dm1499 8 years ago

The worse thing Walt did?

He got greedy.

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