I'm re-watching Point of Vanishing on DVD, and wow, is Zoe Boyle's (Hope) American accent really bad! I'm sorry, but it's not sufficient to take a Scottish accent and broaden it, then call it American. It's so distracting and annoying. It's like watching a school production. I don't blame the actress, who I loved in Downton Abbey. They should hire an American actress for the role! Are there union rules or something in Britain that prevent hiring Americans for TV roles? This is by far not the only or worst example I've seen in British TV. There was an actress in a Morse episode -- The Settling of the Sun, I believe it was -- and her American accent was also ridiculous. What is it, don't they think Americans can act? Anyway, why can't Brits do American accents better? I think Americans often do Brit accents better than vice versa.
Then I think we need more Fair and Free Trade amongst English and American actors/actresses! :) It's really not that hard to hop a flight to London these days - is it? And film a short TV epi? Weird, if you ask me.
Okay, okay, you got me on Van Dyke and Laurie. Point taken, LOL.
I dearly love Laurie, maybe he's lived in the States for long periods and that's why he's better. And Van Dyke butchered it in Mary Poppins, you're correct.
People who do well with both? Anthony Hopkins springs to mind, although his accent in Nixon was just ... weird... and he does a LOT better as a Brit, if you ask me.
What I don't like about artificial American accents is that they just have everybody speak with the hardest, most prominent "R's" possible, and call it American. As though everyone in America lives in Missouri. (Or else they make them be from Brooklyn, like the fellow from "Moonbeams".) The US is so huge; there are hundreds upon hundreds of audibly different American accents- the best way for a foreigner to portray an American is to underplay the accent. He'll be bound to fit in someplace then!
They need to just watch the vocabulary: I remember watching a Foyle's War in which there were actors pretending to be US soldiers. The Major told his troops "We're meant to be guests here." I heard the same usage on a Lewis. But no American would ever say that- we would say "We're supposed to be guests here." 'Meant' implies something different, something more... directed.
It's a minor thing, and it hits my ear and I try to brush it off. But it all makes me think of "Allo, Allo" and the policeman who pretended to be French. Does anyone remember that? Very funny.
There's a recession on and it costs to cast Americans in the UK.
I take your point though. We put on Sweet Charity at school and there were some American students on an exchange programme who said that the accents we put on were ridiculous.
Interesting discussion. I've often cringed at some of the American accents and wondered why they didn't cast an American or at least someone who could do a decent accent. It seems as if all of the women pretending to be American do so by using a sing-songy voice. It makes me think there must be one really bad speech coach in England telling all of them to do this. Overall, male Brit actors seem to be much better at American accents than female Brit actors.
Your point about culturally incorrect vocabulary applies in the both directions. Many's the time that I've shouted at my US television, because they've got the allegedly British vocabulary wrong! ☺
Believe me her accent was horrible. She kept going in and out of her Scottish accent the whole time. I remember saying to my wife, why didn't they just use an American for that part.
I don't know how it works for acting, but it's enormously difficult to get a work visa for the UK in other industries (much more difficult than it is, for example, in the USA). The UK Border Agency is absurdly strict even if one does have a sponsor. It's not simply a matter of "hopping a flight to London." A tourist visa doesn't allow one to work (legally) in the country.
@lilactime - about that episode of Top Gear, I doubt that Clarkson et al were telling the whole truth. For starters, I'm not sure the "factual" and "entertainment" distinction exists outside of bureaucratic red tape. Meaning I really doubt they have any specific rules and conditions that have to be guarded regarding content. The USA allows foreign pornos to shoot in the states - they're not going to block an internationally popular UK-based TV show.
Also, American government is not a single unified entity. Law enforcement is primarily carried out by local and state police. National-level involvement is a major bureaucratic hassle. Meaning that when Clarkson says they got pulled over by the State Department for being "too entertaining," there is no way that's even remotely true. The State Department doesn't have patrol cars and they have no direct authority over local and state police. The Top Gear guys were pulled over for normal traffic violations (speeding, reckless driving, that thing with setting off car alarms) and they asked the officers play along with the "We're too entertaining" bit for the cameras. Because if Clarkson had really flicked off a police officer, he would've been quickly slammed to the ground, and spent 24 hours in jail.
(Besides, national-level law enforcement isn't even carried out by the State Department - that's the Department of Justice and the FBI.)
Back on-topic - I remember watching that episode and also cringing at Zoe Boyle's accent. Even when I watch the episode now, I have to fast forward through her parts or I end up laughing. It really is atrocious - like a British person attempting an Irish brogue mixed with a Texan drawl while swallowing marbles. Thing is, she's acted as an American on more than one instance - I've seen that awful imitation twice myself. I'm guessing that most Brits simply can't perceive the mistakes?
I've heard plenty bad imitations of American accents by British actors. The weak attempt by Sophie Winkleman in the very first episode of Lewis was far from convincing. Even Hugh Laurie's near-flawless version has its lapses. It strikes me that there must be hundreds, if not thousands, of American actors in England looking for a job, which makes me think perhaps the casting directors can't really hear the difference, either.
In my opinion, an American accent is relatively easy, because the country is so large that our accents have a very broad scope. Only a true expert could hear the difference between, say, an Illinois and a Wyoming accent - even in Brooklyn, most people don't have the much-popularized exaggerated accent that you see in movies. Partly, it's because television and radio has standardized American English, and partly, it's because the continuing influx of immigrants maintains a broad range of acceptable variation. Once you master the North American rhotic R, you could pretty much live anywhere without most people noticing. Conversely, if you don't master that "R" pronunciation, it's really, painfully obvious.
In my experience, the key to it is the pronunciation of "world." If you can pronounce "world" like an American, you're set.
I rather doubt there are hundreds, let alone thousands, of American actors in the UK looking for work, given the visa and work restrictions. The reverse is also true. We have an actor friend from the UK who cannot break through the Equity restrictions upon foreign performers, even in regional theatres.
Aside from that, these are TV series (UK and American) with a limited budget. I've always found the range of accents quaint. They never distract me from enjoying the program, on either side of the Atlantic.
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Actor Bob Hoskins did an American accent so well, I thought he really was from New York or New Jersey! I was totally shocked when I saw him in a film and he was speaking as himself. Man that guy was good!
Also Hugh Laurie was amazing in House! And Gary Oldman, but that man can do any accent!
Some British Thespians can do well and others can't. Same for Americans. We are awful doing British accents, but some pull off quite easily!
A large number of the cast are Brits and have faultless American accents.
How about Dominic West & Idris Elba in The Wire? Damien Lewis in BoB and Homeland? As well as others mentioned Hugh Laurie. Only really good English accent by an American I can remember is Renee Zellweger in Bridget Jones.
But Anne Hathaway in Becoming Jane left a lot to be desired. That one puzzled me. Jane Austen is an English icon, for heaven's sake. Hiring Hathaway would be like casting a British actress as Louisa May Alcott.
I was really shocked when I started watching the extras for Band of Brothers and like 2/3 of the actors are British. Not once in the entire series did an accent slip (and they did a whole host of American accents, too, not just the one).
I agree with the OP, Zoe Boyle's accent was... not good. (She also played American in that episode of Poirot and it wasn't any better.) I'm able to ignore it if I like the actor or actress but she just kinda grates on me, I guess.
There's a tidal wave coming, so you'd better start learning to swim. - Jukebox the Ghost
I thought Kelly Macdonald was flawless as Carla Jean in No Country For Old Men. I was shocked when I first heard her doing an interview in her normal "accent". But I'm not from Texas. I lived most of my life in New England and someone from that part of Texas may say she was totally off.
Yes, I believe she's also in Boardwalk Empire although I haven't seen the series so I can't comment on her Irish accent. Being American I may not notice how dodgy her Irish accent was even if I had watched.
Interesting conversation...I usually can stand a bad accent, but I always cringe at word choice... i have read that some British people feel the same way about actor pretending to be British but using American word choices.
Like having "American" say "I think I am clever"...always makes me laugh (Doctor Who eppy comes to mind.) An American, would say "I think I am smart"...but of course that means something different to my British friends.
I do have one pet peeve about one thing I hear constantly mispronounced is the name of our US building "The Pentagon"... I do wish that when referring to a proper noun, like a name, it could be said correctly. Yikes that sounds a little snotty. I could care less about the geometric shape, but this is a place name...okay I am probably being petty.
I can imagine the same must hold true for some proper British names we Americans mess up.
I definitely agree with the word choice issue. Hugh Laurie has been mentioned in this thread because of his very good, pretty non-regional, American accent. I have to admit I didn't know he was Brit when I first started watching House.
I can't remember the episode, but I realized he was a Brit when he said something like, "The committee have decided..." I'm sure the script was written "has" decided, he just slipped into the British single verb for a collective noun, and the director/editor missed it.
That's probably the biggest distinction I've noticed -- the single/plural verb choice for collective nouns. You know it's an American even if the English accent is flawless if he says "The cast has finished rehearsal," and you know it's a Brit even if the American accent is flawless if it comes out "The cast have finished rehearsal."
There are other word choice and usage issues that I occasionally notice. I saw a crime drama on English television once that purportedly took place in Chicago, in which an actor with a very good American accent said something on the order of "After killing so-and-so, you must have taken the body down the service lift. Since you didn't have a lorry, you transported the body in the boot of your automobile where we found blood and hair. Too bad the spanner you used to strike him had your prints on it."
To this day, I don't know whether it was simply bad writing in not knowing the Americanisms, or deliberate because they were writing for a British audience and didn't want to confuse the viewer.
I also am amused at the English Francophobic refusal to use French pronunciation for words of French origin -- they don't fillet a fish, they "FILL-it" a fish; they don't use a parking valet to put their car in a garage, they used a "VALL-it" to put the car in a "GARR-idge," and sergeants don't salute lieutenants, they show respect to "leftenants." Once in a while in movie or TV show, one those shows up and lets the viewer know it's a Brit portraying an American -- or vice versa.
And even syllable accentuation -- the American "CONT-roversy" vs the British "con-TRAH-versy", and many others....
All of this dreary discussion illustrates Shaw's point about "two peoples separated by a common language". Fun stuff -- best time I ever had at a baseball game was with English friends, trying to explain why the crowd cheered loudly when "nothing" happened (called third strike to end an inning with the bases loaded) -- and why, yes, the pitcher threw a ball but it might not turn out to actually be a ball...
You've actually hit on something really important to doing a convincing non-native accent. Look back through this thread at all the British actors doing realistic American accents, and they have one thing in common: their lines were written by American writers. I think the reason Brits can't pull off convincing American accents in British productions (and they pretty uniformly can't) is because the writers are still using British phrasing. You are never going to sound American if the writers have you saying "might have done" and neither you nor they realize that sounds wrong coming out of the mouth of an "American". On an American production, the actor is surrounded by people who know American idioms (and pronunciations) and will correct him. Brits (and Aussies and Kiwis) won't necessarily know the difference. And, of course, vice versa for Americans doing British accents.
I can't explain Dick Van Dyke. (Well, okay, he wasn't hired for his ability to pull off the accent.)
I remember watching Gosford Park and thinking that Ryan Phillipe's accent was awful, and said that to the person I was watching with. He told me that he thought it was fine, and that I was imagining things. Then when it turned out that it was supposed to be awful, I started laughing.
I can think of more Americans who do bad British accents than of Brits doing American ones... but I guess that depends on what shows/movies one has watched. And don't get me started on other accents or languages. There are so many bad examples of bad Irish, Welsh, Australian, German, Italian, French, etc. accents or grammatically wrong sentences in foreign languages (which sometimes don't even make sense). I've even seen some examples of people supposedly speaking in my mother-tounge and I didn't understand a single word!
Funnily enough it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the budget. I've seen some pretty bad examples in Hollywood blockbusters and some very good ones in TV shows or TV movies - and sometimes even a good and a bad example in the same show/movie! One should think they should be able to either get people to check the translation and/or actors who can do or actually have that accent. But I guess many producers don't bother about such "little details", especially if the movie/show was primarily made for an audience which supposedly doesn't know the accent/language.
You forgot Russian. Russian must be the most commonly used foreign language in movies and they use it very badly. I'm not very good at russian but the pronounciation is mostly soooo off that it hurts to listen. And they can't even say the names right (like "Ivan" is pronounced in english way by the "russians" themselves).
You're right! Although I don't speak any Russian I've noticed the English pronounciation of names too. And I've also forgot to mention the worst examples: African or Asian languages, which are usually just gibberish, don't make any sense at all and they don't seem to bother about accents at all, they just use "blackvoice", or swap "l" and "r" or add an "o" to the end of almost every word and think that's how they speak.
This thread has been pretty entertaining. For what it's worth, I think the Spinal Tap guys' accents were pretty good. The most amazing thing about this episode - the one with the band - is the resemblance between Anthony Higgins and Hilton McRae. I don't think I look anything like my brother, but then i don't go around saying I do. So often when people who look nothing alike are playing siblings someone - a detective, usually - keeps going on about the 'extraordinary likeness'. But that's a different subject.
Union rules and work permit issues have a lot to do with it. Problem is, most Brits simply CANNOT do passable American accents - - Ian MacShane (Deadwood) is a notable exception, as was Peter Sellers (President Muffley in Dr. Strangelove). British native speech is simply too cultured for the flat American speech style! Australians (like Russel Crowe) can do it a lot better!
Hugh Laurie does an excellent American accent, as has been mentioned here. British actor Jeremy Northam starred in a US TV movie about Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis in 2002. Northam played Dean Martin and his Dino accent was perfect. I was shocked to find out later that the actor was English.
Watching the extra features on a DVD of Eli Stone, one of the producers said when they watched Jonny Lee Miller's audition tape, they had no idea who he was - until they read the resume. They'd assumed he was an American.
And yet, JLM also said on the same DVD that he still had voice coaches barking down an ear piece at him during takes whilst filming. And in the UK, after Trainspotting came out, he was widely assumed to be Scottish. In fact he was the only non-Scot in the cast and most of them are clearly using west coast accents throughout.
I think to be authentic takes a LOT of work, even for someone who can pick up accents easily.
One of the worst ever examples was the start of Working Girl, where the so-called English girl from London had a pure Australian accent! I always assumed someone misread the script when casting her. Luckily she was off screen in 5 minutes and never heard again.
And my personal current most hated accent is Elizabeth McGovern on Downton Abbey, a horrible hybrid of both.
I think some English actors can do good American accents, and some can't, and which is which comes down to a question of individual ability. (Ditto for American actors doing English accents.) Years ago, I saw a stage production of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf in London, with David Suchet as George and Diana Rigg as Martha. David Suchet's American accent was spot-on: I'm American, and if I hadn't known who he was, I would never have guessed he wasn't born and raised in the US. On the other hand, Diana Rigg's American accent was atrocious. I worship and adore Diana Rigg, and would never dream of suggesting she is anything less than a superb actress, but I guess an American accent is a tool that just isn't in her toolbox. Go figure.
Oddly I've never been that enamored of Hugh Laurie's American accent, which I find a bit too one-dimensional. I was, however, extremely surprised to find that Linus Roache (Executive A.D.A. Michael Cutter on Law & Order) was British. His New York accent was fantastic, and very natural.
I don't recall seeing this episode (my wife loves them, but I don't tend to watch them with her), so I can't comment on Zoe Boyle's American accent. However, I have to disagree with the notion that they SHOULD hire an American actor to play an American. By all means, hire someone who can actually do a plausible American accent, but there are droves of Brits (and Aussies) who can do it. For crying out loud, half the cast of Band of Brothers were British actors playing American soldiers. Russell Crowe and Heath Ledger had excellent American accents in several films. The point is to hire someone who can actually play the part. Apart from that, I expect the producers are making this for a British audience and the fake American accent is fine for them.
In the 70's and 80's I seem to remember that we had some actors that must have emmigrated from Canada and America to the UK as they were always in our TV and films here. Surely there must be a similar setup nowadays !
Three of those oldies that spring to mind are Shane Rimmer (Canadian), Paul Maxwell (Canadian) and Ed Bishop (American). Shane Rimmer was the voice of Scott Tracy in Thunderbirds and appeared in many TV and British films, Paul Maxwell was in Coronation Street.. and of course, Ed Bishop was in UFO and many TV series'.
I watch mostly British tv as I think most of the stuff my fellow countrymen put out is rubbish but I cringe when there is an American character. Without a doubt they will have an over the top Texas or Georgia backwoods accent and sometimes a really odd combination of both.
On Waiting for God, there was a black waitress and as I continued to listen to her accent, I finally concluded that she must have come from or spent lots of time in the (American) South because her accent and mannerisms were decidedly Southern.
Also Angela Lansbury was able to carry off a Southern accent in Blue Hawaii as she had roomed with a girl from the (American) South and had had a chance to learn how to speak Southern.