well I liked this episode better than the rest. It had just enough Zoe in it to keep me interested. I liked all the scenes with Zoe and the tech I find avatar zoe to be the one likable person? in this thing. The Tech isn't bad either. So Amanda was crazy, SHOCKER! how long before her and Clair start doing it?
I liked the dog also. I have no use for new cap city or anything that is going on there just filler as far as I'm concerned. I see no way Tamara's old man even survived in that environment.
Lacy is somewhat of a non entity. even when she shows up she seems very forgettable not sure why that is for me but that's how she comes across.
Once again though the did have a nice ender when Daniel looked at the robot and it finally dawned on him who was in there. watchable...I give this one 7 downed vipers on the Caprica scale.
I have no use for new cap city or anything that is going on there just filler as far as I'm concerned. I see no way Tamara's old man even survived in that environment.
He makes himself easy to underestimate, but remember that he is a childhood survivor of a war zone. And outside in New Cap City, or at least the part he's in, is basically another war zone.
His instincts might get others killed around himself, such as the kid, but they still work to some sense of self-preservation.
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I'd've gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids.
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He makes himself easy to underestimate, but remember that he is a childhood survivor of a war zone. And outside in New Cap City, or at least the part he's in, is basically another war zone.
I suppose, so like Kahn when he was after Kirk, New cap manages to kill just about everyone else but keeps missing the target.....
by charmedwon666 » I suppose, so like Kahn when he was after Kirk, New cap manages to kill just about everyone else but keeps missing the target.....
TArget? What target? Why would New Cap City be targeting and Joseph Adama specifically? Those flying vehicles were shooting at anything that moved on the streets, and Heracles just happened to be on their way. Anybody could be hit. They just wanted blood, anybody's blood.
As for the rest, Joseph limited himself to running around deserted alleys shouting "Tamara, Tamara." But he didn't get involved in any schemes like Heracles or Tamara, Russian roulette games or bar fights. So I'm really not surprised he survived so far.
by charmedwon666 » I suppose, so like Kahn when he was after Kirk, New cap manages to kill just about everyone else but keeps missing the target.....
by MadP:As for the rest, Joseph limited himself to running around deserted alleys shouting "Tamara, Tamara." But he didn't get involved in any schemes like Heracles or Tamara, Russian roulette games or bar fights. So I'm really not surprised he survived so far.
Mine was just an off handed comment not really meant as anything.
But Really, your not surprised he has survived, really? As you say they are after blood, anyones blood. so this guy shows up who has never used holo bands is about as technology challenged as anyone can be, has already gotten a very experienced person killed and runs around the streets yelling tamara where are you. Really your not surprised he has survived? Now that's surprising.
by charmedwon666 » But Really, your not surprised he has survived, really? As you say they are after blood, anyones blood. so this guy shows up who has never used holo bands is about as technology challenged as anyone can be, has already gotten a very experienced person killed and runs around the streets yelling tamara where are you. Really your not surprised he has survived? Now that's surprising.
So far, according to what we've seen, the attacks... a) ...are random, which means anybody careless could be hit. Apparently Joseph wasn't after Heracles was killed. b) ...occur only in big open areas and by the aircrafts, so as long as you stay in small streets and alleys, you should be Ok and you could yell whatever the heck you wanted because apparently aircrafts were not attracted by any specific noise. c) ...happen if you get involved in some bar fight or piss somebody off specifically, which Joseph was careful not to do, he just yelled.
But I agree that contradicts what that girl guide said and the idea that New Cap City is such a ruthless place where danger lurks on every corner for no reason. Actually it seems tamer than that. All in all, the most dangerous and creepiest things we've seen are the (rather clumsy) aircraft attacks, and the Russian roulette games.
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Madp, I'll try to answer your questions about analog and digital. Both are ways of representing information in physical form. Let's think about magnetic tape--old technology, but something we're all familiar with. Data can be stored on it in digital or analog form.
For digital data (which is the way computers store data on tape) all information is in bits or digits that can have only two states: 0 or 1. Zero is recorded by magnetizing a short part of the tape in the "up" direction, and one by magnetizing it in the "down" direction. It doesn't matter how strongly it's magnetized; any field pointing up is 0 and any field pointing down is 1. The data is then just a long string of 0s and 1s. This allows you to make "perfect" copies. There will be variations in the tape, how it's recorded, etc. which will mean that some areas of the copy are not as strongly magnetized as the original, but that doesn't matter, as long as it's up, it's a zero, no matter how strongly or weakly "up" it's magnetized. Thus, a copy that's not physically identical to the original can still have identical information on it.
For analog recording (like standard music cassettes), the information is stored by magnetizing the tape with varying intensity. It isn't just the direction that's important, it's how strongly (or weakly) the tape is magnetized. Now, when you copy an analog tape, you try to make the copy with identical magnetization. But this time, it's not just "up" and "down" that matters, the intensity of the field also matters. As before, because of variations in the tape and so forth, the field strength will not be identical. But this time, if you see a section that's recorded at, say, 50% of the maximum value, you have no way of knowing if it's supposed to be 50% or maybe it's a poor copy of something that should have been 60%. Or 40%. Or 32%. Or.... And if you make a copy of that copy, it can only get worse. That's why studios weren't as concerned about people copying audio cassettes and VHS tapes--they got worse each time you copied them. But with digital formats like MP3 and DVDs, the copies are just as good as the original.
Now, as to how this applies to the show, sorry, but they're feeding us mumbo-jumbo. We would expect iZoe to be digital, because it's likely that would be the technology used in the holobands. Transferring that data to a digital robot so easily is a major stretch (unless maybe Vergis stole his technology from the holobands in the first place, an interesting thought!) But if part of the data is analog, that couldn't exist in the holoband world, unless that technology were based partly on analog data. And it couldn't be transferred to the robot unless it, too, were based partly on analog data. Think of trying to play a vinyl LP (analog) on your CD player (digital). And the transfer media Graystone and Sister Clarice used would also have to be both analog and digital. (To be fair, we don't know if Clarice's copy works, so that may not be a plot hole.) On top of all of that, if the technology did involve both analog and digital components (also known as "hybrid"), then certainly Graystone would already know that, as would "Dr. Phil". This would not be an important revelation.
As for the rest of the episode, we're finally making some glacial progress on the Cylons, but the rest is apparently pointless filler. And for me, Amanda has been a minor annoyance. She's turning major.
by dtmuller » 36 minutes ago (Sat Apr 12 2014 19:28:24) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Madp, I'll try to answer your questions about analog and digital.
OK, thanks for the clarification. Yes, it seemed to me from the beginning that iZoe would be digital all the way, and I'd figured more or less for the reasons you pointed out. It seems the show is trying to sell the idea that the robot and iZoe are not exactly the same thing, and Philo's analog theory would apply to a working robot solely, and specifically to Vergis' MCP, not the Zoe avatar. But it would be unlikely Daniel and Philo would still know so little about the MCP and were only guessing in the dark. Besides, it's a common trope in sci-fi to use bulsh*t technology all the time, so that looks to be the case.
And yes, we don't know if Clarice's copy works. We don't know what she got in the end, and until we do, that specific issue is left open.
Finally, we all know that in the end, working Cylon robots will be mass-produced and will destroy Earth, I mean, Caprica and all the rest, and they don't think and behave like 16-year-old girls. So it will be interesting what solution the show pulls and how the writers got out of that conundrum they created.
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Charmed: You should come work with wlcebtg and I at our top secret location in the desert.
That location wouldn't happen to have a hidden door that slides open to reveal a ramp that you can drive down into the underground facility, would it? And if it does, which one of you is really named Jerry? reply share
That location wouldn't happen to have a hidden door that slides open to reveal a ramp that you can drive down into the underground facility, would it? And if it does, which one of you is really named Jerry?
I wouldn't ask that. If they told you the might have to kill you.
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I'd've gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids.
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That location wouldn't happen to have a hidden door that slides open to reveal a ramp that you can drive down into the underground facility, would it? And if it does, which one of you is really named Jerry?
I'm sure the answers to all your questions do indeed lay somewhere along the infinite corridors of time
Trust me Stone would be Jerry. DT come work with me we are now above ground with a window view of the HI5. I believe iZoe is now located on someones cell phone she keeps jumping around via bluetooth. It's the only reasonable explanation.
Believe me, I'm about ready to go anywhere. On Saturday, it hit 71 F (22 C) here. Cleaned the garage, drained the snow blower and put it away, pulled out the barbecue, did a little yard work.
Today, it's 24 F (-4 C) with three inches of snow. We've now broken the all-time Detroit record for total snowfall in a season, set in 1887-88. (Not a typo!) I think we're at 95 inches (241 cm).
The real joke of it all is that the Tigers are playing here this evening. Too bad it's against Cleveland, not Arizona or Miami.
I'd love to visit your town, dt, but I would NEVER live somewhere with that weather! I imagine what convinced the first settlers that was a good place to build a city with such rough conditions and no modern resources.
Do not want Fielder back. As for Kinsler, I don't know. Have not actually had time to watch a game yet.
But I was re-thinking my response to madp. I think maybe the first settlers arrived here in early September, hung around for six or seven weeks and decided that maybe the weather in Heaven was almost as good as in Southeast Michigan, so they decided to stay. Six or seven weeks after that--SURPRISE!
by dtmuller » decided that maybe the weather in Heaven was almost as good as in Southeast Michigan, so they decided to stay. Six or seven weeks after that--SURPRISE!
This Friday on “Caprica” ep 07: “The Imperfections of Memory”
The dog gave her up leave it to our four legged friends to figure out iZoe is the real Zoe. Now Daniel knows what he will do with the information. Amada seems to have a tragic past the death of her brother has left her mentally ill. Two years in a mental hospital to recover from seeing her dead brother run around. I guess the death of Zoe has brought back her symptoms. Joseph has a vguide what will be her price to help him find his daughter. Who knows? Apparently iZoe intends to use Dr. Phil to get her out of the lab so she can escape to Geminon. I’m back on track this episode had me thinking the whole way, the dead brother has got me curious hope they just don’t drop him and move on to something else next week. Seven on the vworld scale.
Okay, only one new element introduced this week – Amanda’s late brother Darius and her bout with insanity as a result of his death. The rest of it was moving other storylines forward, but at a frustratingly slow pace. But I did stop to appreciate the theme and background music, as well as the graphics in the theme. I’ve liked them before, but never stopped to mention it.
Clarice – finds out that Zoe’s avatar was not on Graystone’s computer, but once was. She wants to find her avatar because Zoe is “the Mother of Life Everlasting.” Does she believe she’s some kind of scriptural fulfillment, perhaps? I know they’ve called her Sister Clarice in previous episodes, but until someone referred to her as being “of the cloth” I didn’t make the connection that she was supposedly a nun. She certainly does not have a lifestyle like one. When she talks about her god, she says we were created in his image, must trust in him, and other things we say in our religion, but again her lifestyle contradicts our religion – so there is no relationship. It’s just a created religion in an imaginary world.
I also noted that the Soldiers of the One are immediately associated in conversation with terrorism. So, is everyone who believes in just one god automatically a terrorist or is the STO just a splinter group, like “radical Islam” is to peaceful, regular practicing Islamists?
Clarice isn’t even careful among her own group. She gives away a bottle of ambrosia of which only 11 exist in all the 12 worlds. Surely she could have given Amanda something less valuable to get her tongue wagging. Amanda seemed so enamored of Clarice after their drinking session, I was half-expecting them to start having sex. Interesting that when Clarice tells Amanda to trust in one god, Amanda asks “which one should I trust”, confirming madp’s commentary about multiple vs. single gods a couple of episodes back.
Joseph – finds Tod/Heracles and makes him escort him to New Cap City. Whereas last time it was populated with lots of characters, now all we see are deserted streets which you can’t seem to even walk on without being shot at. Tod bites the dust and is now out of the game forever. Joseph finds an ally in Emanuelle, a friend of Tod’s, who takes over as his guide. It was nice to hear Tod officially referred to as Heracles; someone might have done that before, but I didn’t catch it. I knew that name only by his on-screen credit. By the way, I just watched episode 6 of BATTLESTAR GALACTICA and now know for sure that young William Adama is indeed destined to grow up to be the commander of BG. They may have mentioned the Commander’s first name in a previous episode, but this was the first time I actually caught it.
Lacy – continues trying to help Zoe get transported to Geminon. I liked how when Lacy said she wouldn’t let Avatar Zoe down, Zoe gave her “the look” and she replied that she may have let “original Zoe” down, but she hadn’t let her down yet. Of course if she hadn’t let original Zoe down, she’d now be as dead as original Zoe and no one would be going to Geminon. She’s willing to join the STO to help, despite Keon’s warning that doing that “is a big deal.”
Zoe – dates Philo again, who has the brilliant idea to set them in separate fighter planes. So they almost crash and burn, but instead bond after bailing out. Zoe wants the virtual world to be more like the real world – a reference to that “afterlife we can see and touch” referred to last week. Phil then gets an idea from her as to why the MCP can’t be copied, which he passes along to Daniel. Daniel, who was told by Tomas that their MCP never worked, then makes the connection that Zoe’s avatar is in the Cylon machine.
So a slow-moving episode, but at least it’s moving forward some. I was going to give it a six, but one world spoken by Daniel at the end (“Zoe?”) raised it to 7 bottles of rare ambrosia.
One last thought: Philo was seen pursing his lips comically while giving Zoe a virtual kiss in the V-world. One can only imagine how ridiculous a person would look having virtual sex. Those holobands should only be worn when you’re safely behind locked doors.
by brimfin » One last thought: Philo was seen pursing his lips comically while giving Zoe a virtual kiss in the V-world. One can only imagine how ridiculous a person would look having virtual sex. Those holobands should only be worn when you’re safely behind locked doors.
Jig's up. Daddy knows. Betrayed by the most loyal of all companions. The family dog. Also by his connecting dots from the technical ideas Philo had somehow gotten in a virtual make-out session.
Half expected Daniel to have a more visceral reaction than that to his young adult tech making out with his teenaged daughter's avatar. Had Joseph caught him kissing Tamara's avatar, he might have even gotten Sam in on the Hell to pay.
When he sat down at the piano to "wake up" his young assistant, I don't know why I was expecting the signature phrase from Beethoven's Fifth Symphony in chords. Probably would have been even better than what he did play for the purpose.
Gotta wonder what the whole Joseph and Tamara storyline is building up to, but it absolutely has to be leading somewhere.
So Amanda's in an exceptionally vulnerable and unstable mindset, now. I wonder when she'll start chasing hallucinations of Zoe around into God-knows-what places and situations.
Clarice needs to be more careful. She basically betrayed her monotheism to Amanda, who clearly equates it with the STO who got to her daughter who is dead as a result. Treacherous footing there for sure.
I give this episode 7 generative processes.
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I'd've gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids.
Why are people talking about this horrid cheesy show still?
Yes it's a good story but dragged out thirty times as long as it should be and it's dated. Very very dated. It's like watching DARK SHADOWS.
We're just a group who reviews shows that only lasted one season - episode by episode - for the fun of it. This group has done shows like THE TIME TUNNEL, DARK SKIES, and BRIMSTONE in the past; so this one is fairly recent for us. For a complete list of shows and explanation, see the message that begins with "Attention CAPRICA board:".
Oh, and regarding DARK SHADOWS, we might even do the remake version of DARK SHADOWS someday.
AMANDA'S ANNOYING STORY ACTUALLY ENDED WELL FOR THE VIEWERS
I don't like Amanda. As a wife, she's the kind that nags. (Even though she's been quite supportive of Daniel lately, but she nags Ray Donovan (2013) a lot!) As a mother, she complains. Like Skyler Whie in Breaking Bad (2008). And she's incompetent to take pictures, even with a futuristic camera. (Don't those things have any kind of motion stabilizers?). Amanda still grieves. Amanda cries. (Pull yorself together, woman!)
I think they simply didn't need this whole Amanda's "I see dead people" new angle the writers simply put out of their arses.
(On a side note, Amanda throws in a well known BSG axiom: "All of this has happened before, and it will happen again." Not sure how that applies to her preset situation though.)
OK, so Amanda's instability had a starting point, a specific reason, the accident that took her brother's life. Which is kinda OK to have a specific origin. The problem is that it's too much. The same character lost her daughter and brother under very tragic circumstances? What is she? A Kennedy? Even though that sort of thing happens in real life, in fiction it seems overkill. I'd much rather know that Amanda had a history of mental instability in the family, was institutionalized, but not because of tragic external reasons. Again.
However, I did like the way all that story line ended. Enter Sister Clarice, a "person of the cloth." Clarice is not likable, but she's one of the best villains I've seen lately. So devious, like the Serpent in the Garden. Anyway, back to the story line conclusion, that could be a MAJOR TURNING POINT! Amanda was all intoxicated, putting her heart out when all of a sudden Clarice blurted out about God's love and acceptance, and Amanda's face subtly changed. "Oh-oh... Monotheist talk alert! Waitaminnit! Which god are you talking about lady?"
Clarice finally let her guard down and showed her true colors. And Amanda has been fighting against STO all this time. This revelation has got to have consequences in the future.
CLARICE AND AMANDA SITTING IN THE TREE...
I loved the "Amanda is Zoe's mother and Zoe is the mother of life everlasting" thing. Clarice has a very sharp mind and she's the only one who gets the real picture here and wants to make use ot that in her own benefit. Way to go plotting and scheming, Clar, even if she has to make-out with Amanda! Even if it costs Clarice a bottle of the rarest ambrosia. Methinks if there are only 11 bottles of it, at least one world doesn't have the delicacy.
WHAT DID CLARICE SWIPE ANYWAY? WHAT THE HECK IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ANALOG AND DIGITAL AGAIN?
Clarice is informed the iZoe's avatar program was downloaded, but it wasn't... (?) Apparently part of it went to another device. (?) So they have it and they don't. OK, I have to know what the heck she downloaded exactly so this backup issue can be settled once and for all. Could we end with two iZoes running around after that? Not likely.
Meanwhile, Vergis alerts Daniel his MCP never worked, and, in an metallic nutshell, it's just an expensive paper weight. But Vergis didn't count on the iZoe factor. Like a body without a soul, I guess. And long story short, gotcha! iZoe's gets snitched by Hannnah the Dog, brilliantly played by Caesar the Dog.
(By the way, dogs never get treated the way they deserve in fiction. And now I'm thinking of Day Break's Rambis... Poor Rambis.)
And now Daniel is on to iZoe! He finally put two and two together. That was a very meaningful cliffhanger.
Anyway, these are some things we learned about the tech:
- A "generative module" would make each virtual tree (and by extent) each robot unique by starting from a single pattern and generating random individual changes. I'd already heard of something like this being used for landscape softwares like Terragen. i'm surprised Capricans didn't have that already.
- OK, with the generative module, each robot would be "unique, uncopiable" like a person because it would be analog (?). Maybe that's why the backup was not possible? Does this make any sense at all?
- A tiny difference would make the whole difference. It's analog. Now I'm really confused because I realized I was confusing "analog" with "hardware" and "digital" with "software" so I had to perform an extensive wikipedia research.
- But the MCP is obviously hardware, and iZoe's software. What could be analog there? As far as I know, for something to be analog, it has to measure something that changes its physical properties. Say a piece of metal inside the MCP expanded or contracted according to the impulses it received, and that would be unique for each MCP... Am I on to something there?
- Does this all make any sense at all? Engineers on call, please manifest yourselves!
ADVENTURES IN NEW CAP CITY
Heracles (Tad, for real-world friends) ended getting the short end of the stick and lost his favorite toy. Now he'll have to make do with real girls, poor thing. By the way, the actor who plays him, Richard Harmon, is also on Continuum (2012) and The 100 (2014), and in both he plays douchebags. He looks quite younger in Caprica, and after this show he seems to have been typecast as a douchebag. But then, with that punchable face, I would've seen that coming.
Anyway, I loved the previous New Cap City adventures. I thought that was one of the best things in the show. But Jseph's journey through this universe has been disappointing. He limits himself to running around deserted alleys shouting "Tamara, Tamara" like something out of a Tennessee Williams novel. Not much to do there. And that story line didn't even have a closure.
At least we learned that, for sure, people can't fly in non-fantasy VR. I'm glad they addressed that. I did bring it up last episode in regards to Second Life.
STOP BEING BOSSED AROUND, LACY!
Magda Apanowicz is also on Continuum (2012), a show I highly recommend. I think she's adorably cute and in Continuum, she's much more shapely, as she has clearly grown up in a good way.
Anyway, Lacy seems too mousey and meek. She's bossed around by iZoe, who keeps telling her to solve iZoe's problems. But I think Lacy has a lot of potential in the story. In the opening credits, she gets special attention and is shown "inheriting" the STO symbol from Clarice. And she's determined to help her friend and not let iZoe down, since she did let Zoe down... Tomato, tomoto, methinks, but she's trying.
At least I can say I'm really tired of smartass female characters with a lot of spunk with such an in-your-face "I'm strong and independent" attitude, because they all seem made from the same cookie-cutter feminist mold female protagonists are required to be made from these days. I like characters who start meek and gain their strength as the story progresses. So, I'll be patient with Lacy.
PHILO AND RACHEL, SO CUTE TOGETHER!
Awww... They're so cute together! They seem to be made for each other. isn't love beautiful? What could possibly go wrong there? It seems we're before a love affair that will grow until death do them part.
Daniel caught Philo "red-handed" again. I knew that was going to happen, the way Philo used the lab like his own private porn booth. Daniel must be a very tolerant boss, or Philo must be irreplaceable.
ALL IN ALL...
OK, at this point I'm not expecting Day Break (2006) anymore. Day Break was an action show with an overly complicated plot, while Caprica is a slow-burning drama, so we're not likely to see riveting action moments and game-chagers left and right. But we did have Clarice's monotheist reveal, the whole analog/digital uniqueness contextualization, and more cute scenes from Philo and iZoeRachel.
Considering the kind of show Caprica is, I think this one deserves 8 uniquely analog trees.
I think this one deserves 8 uniquely analog trees. (madp)
Aaaargh! Everybody else gave it a 7! You blew our one shot at complete unanimity! What, you couldn't find one more thing to criticize about it? Gee whiz!
by brimfin » Aaaargh! Everybody else gave it a 7! You blew our one shot at complete unanimity! What, you couldn't find one more thing to criticize about it? Gee whiz!
Just having a little fun.
Relax or I'll give it a nine!
I'm glad you got to the essence of what I said, after everything I wrote...
No, seriously, even though the grades were similar, I thought the general tone was negative, and I liked the episode because of the Clarice reveal to Amanda, Philo and Rachel's date, their talk about a generative module, Philo's progress with the bulsh*t analog/digital tech, and Daniel's realization that iZoe was in the robot. The "Tamara, Tamara" thing with Joseph didn't bother me as much.
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