SO much better than X-men Evolution! - Wolverine and the X-Men (2009) Discussion

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] Drakenlord 15 years ago

Something people miss in the 90's X-Men is that Wolverine dies. In the Dark Sentinel Future a Sentinel kills Wolverine. In that future Wolverine's skeleton is later seen in the background in a tube behind Forge.

Yeah, the 90's X-Men was pretty dark.

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[–] Misanthropic_Humanist 15 years ago

90s x-men rocked

facebook - Misanthropic Humanist

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[–] maxpower10 15 years ago

I don't get the comparison. Which was better? The original GI joe cartoon or GI joe resolute w/Sigma 6?

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] Drakenlord 15 years ago

This is in the 90s X-Men: The Animated Series.

Yeah, Bishop goes back in time and he slightly changes the future. However, every time Bishop does slightly change the future, the Dark Sentinel Future is still shown to exist. Supposedly the Dark Sentinel Future cannot be stopped. Wolverine along with the rest of the X-Men all die no matter what and most of the world's population is wiped out. Eventually though Bishop and the resistance in the future win the war against the Sentinels and rebuild the world. Further along in the future thanks to Bishop humanity and the mutants have created a stable alliance. The world has been rebuilt into a utopian society for the most part. This is Cable's time where there are no longer any Sentinels. However in this future Apocalypse returns to wage a war against both mutants and humanity. In Cable's time Apocalypse is the ultimate threat that has an army of robots under his command, along with other resources.

The first time Bishop went back in time he did so to stop the assassination of Senator Robert Kelly. It was a theory of the resistance that stopping the assassination would get rid of the Dark Sentinel Future. When Bishop returned to his time he talked to Forge about how he stopped the assassination so the Dark Sentinel Future shouldn't exist. Forge didn't recall the change because the future had been changed. Forge told him that something else must have happened to ensure the Dark Sentinel Future still happened. It turned out the Dark Sentinel Future still happened because Apocalypse released a virus that killed millions of mutants in the past. Bishop went back in time to stop the virus, once he did so Bishop returned to his own time once more only to discover the Dark Sentinel Future still existed. The resistance though was winning the war against Master Mold and victory for the resistance was all but assured. Master Mold then decided to alter the future to get rid of the resistance by sending a mutant Fitzroy to kill Professor Charles Xavier before he created the X-Men. Bishop's future was then transformed into one where the Sentinels had won and the resistance didn't even exist. Bishop though went back in time and stopped Xavier's death ensuring that the resistance wins the war.

No matter what though a Sentinel still kills Wolverine, Wolverine's adamantium skeleton ends up in one tube, and Wolverine's brain ends up in another tube.

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] Ely-girl 15 years ago

You said it! Nothing can ever beat the 90's series! Woo!

Wolverine and the X-Men is defintely better than X-Men Evo but Evo is defintely the funniest! It had/has a great deal of funny moments that not even the 90's series had/has. It's just a fun show to watch really. Nevertheless, I prefer X-Men (TAS). It's a classic.

'Everyone stay behind me!'

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[–] davulture 15 years ago

The 90's version is the best, but Wolverine and the X-Men definitely should be near the top. Evolution wasn't bad but it felt like watching something that belonged on the CW.

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] davulture 15 years ago

CW as in teenage drama based junk they have on that network.

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[–] Ely-girl 15 years ago

I liked X-Men Evolution but I prefer Wolverine and the X-Men, mainly because it's darker and more complex. X-Men Evolution is defintely the funniest though; there's no denying that. It had some great humorous moments, not very memorable but still funny. Wolverine and the X-Men just doesn't have that same humour. Wolverine is very serious and Cyclops, well, he was just depressed! Although I really like Wolverine and the X-Men, I think it tries to take itself a little too serious sometimes. Yes, I know there's this big battle going on but they need to lighten up a bit and have some fun once in a while!

'Everyone stay behind me!'

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[–] FlipcrackaE 15 years ago

i don't think i seen wolverines skeleton or brain anywhere but then again i probably wasn't paying attention back then. i don't doubt you. but in the comic wolverine is pretty much immortal. not because of his healing ability but mainly the adamantium skeleton. there's one issue where wolvie is caught in a nitro explosion and the flames literally burn the flesh off his bones and all u see is his skeleton. now he comes back and the theory is because his skull is coated in adamantium his brain was protected and as long as the brain was ok the cells were alive enough to start healing him. and you said his brain was in a tube behind bishop. continuity does translate well sometimes. now had that happened when his adamantium was stripped, he would not have been able to heal bones and brain woulda been charcoal. i don't know.. i feel all nerdy now.. i'm stoppin

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] FlipcrackaE 14 years ago

"This is one of the things that irritates me about Wolverines new found popularity. In recent years his abilities has been exaggerated to rediculous levels. Adamantium should not prevent heat from cooking his brain. Also healing factor does not mean and should not be equal to invulnerability. I remember the Wolverine of the early 90's and before that could actually be knocked unconscious. Or the Wolverine who after receiving a mortal wound he healed in hours instead of days or days instead of weeks but not just instantly. "

also i don't know how this all hold up, but gambit blew his hand off. so why wouldn't the explosion from that bomb be able to eff him upp? i'm sure the explosion is more volatile than gambits fairly gay ability.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] MissExtinction 15 years ago

i would not go that far.

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[–] classOFfitness 15 years ago

hmm.. i don't know either.

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[–] gljbradley 15 years ago

I think both W&X-Men and X-Men:E are both great cartoon shows. But, X-Men:TAS from the 90s is AWESOME! Plus, it has a cool intro theme song! I sing along to that tune to this day! My mom loves it too!

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] mystroSam 15 years ago

I don't know about SOOO much better. It may be slightly better. But I don't think X-Men Evolution ever gets enough credit. It had more continuity than X-Men:TAS from the 90s. The personalities were more fleshed out. Not to mention every Season Finale and Season Premiere was absolutely amazing on that show. Seriously, the Season Finale when Apocalypse is awaken was one of the best action cartoon episodes of any show I've ever seen in my life.

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] EvilClaire 15 years ago

I like this show better than Evolution, and it's too early to tell whether it will surpass 90's X Men. I think it's off to a good start, but it still needs to lighten up a bit at times, and have a few little character moments in between the action.

I thought Evo was good, in spite of it being teen-based, and seasons 3 and 4 were very good indeed. I have to agree that the series finale of Evo was far better than the 90's X Men finale. It was truly epic, which made me slightly disappointed that the season 1 finale of WATXM wasn't nearly as on-the-edge-of-your-seat thrilling as Evo was, especially considering it had THE PHOENIX! Though I have to agree that Evo did do characterization better than WATXM so far. Again, Evo didn't fully hit its stride until season 3, so I can't wait to see what the future holds.

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[–] vze4c9nw 15 years ago

I think Evolution was better so far. That show was able to give proper development throughout the team. This show basically just has single episodes devoted to characters with 90% of the other characters completely disappearing or not saying anything.

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[–] Ely-girl 15 years ago

I know what you mean. That's where Evolution is better although at the moment, I still prefer this one. Don't ask why! This show is entirely focused on Wolverine at the moment. The other X-Men are just like supporting characters. Rogue, Storm and Iceman haven't really had much to do at all thus far but I'm more than willing to give it another chance. I really liked season 1 but I hope we get to see some more character development during season 2. More X-Men, less Wolverine!!

'Everyone stay behind me!'

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] Johnny_Lovegood 15 years ago

You know, I'm still a Wolverine fan, the 90's Wolverine. From 2000 and up, Marvel turned him in to some leader type which is not his style. Wolverine was a guy who cared little about any one else was just plain badass! Not no more, this new Wolverine has some gay feelings, is a leader, and blah blah blah.

Oh, and I liked X-Men: Evolution better because it was more about the "X-MEN" than just about "WOLVERINE".

"Can I keep you?" Casper

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[–] DarthBill 15 years ago

One thing I definitely liked about Evolution - Wolverine wasn't the goddamn star. And my man Cyclops wasn't a worthless loser either. The women were also better looking on Evolution than they are here. Only Emma Frost, Scarlet Witch & Jean Grey look good, the others not so much (Storm looks especially bad here when compared to her 90s TAS and Evolution designs).

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[–] Viltrumite 15 years ago

I liked Evolution because it was a fresh take on something I was familiar with. I hoped it would be more like Ultimate X-Men, but I enjoyed what we got. As DarthBill said, I liked Wolverine appearing in more of a mentor capacity than as the dude that every other episode focuses on, plus Scott was more likeable, although, they made Jean more irritating.

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[–] DarthBill 15 years ago

Really tactile? Most of the people I talk to liked Evolution Jean more than pretty much any other version of Jean. Granted, Jean was a bit... off in the 90s series, and in the current series she's not a character but a plot device/macguffin.

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[–] Viltrumite 15 years ago

She just came off as a bitch. 90s Jean was also annoying, albeit for totally different reason. I wish she had just spurned Wolverine's advances and told him to bugger off. Evolution was mercifully free of any Scott/Jean/Logan melodrama crap, despite it's faults.

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[–] DarthBill 15 years ago

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then.

Of course in Evolution Jean was underage (17) so Logan hitting on her would have gotten him in trouble with the law.

In the 90s series it feels like the writers just didn't have a good handle on her character or her powers for that matter. I'm guessing they just didn't see Jean as a dynamic heroine when compared to Storm, Rogue or even Jubilee for that matter. Apparently they didn't know how to make her telekinesis look cool compared to Storm throwing lightning bolts, Jubilee making fireworks or Rogue flying/battering stuff. One thing you do have to give Evo is that they utilized her powers better. Hell, even W&TXM's "Breakdown" (an episode I vehemently dislike) had her telekinetically (spelling?) arm wrestling Magneto for a bus.

Still, I'm surprised the 90s series even got away with portraying her that way, given that it was the 90s after all, and that kind of characterization was no longer considered acceptable for a primary heroine by then (other than she wasn't the "star"). I can only imagine how her 90s voice actress Catherine Disher felt about that.

And yeah, she should have just told Wolvie to bugger off.

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[–] Viltrumite 15 years ago

Breakdown was actually my favorite episode of W&TXM. Weird. As for Jean being underage at 17, I keep forgetting that the age of consent in the US is 18. Here it's 16.

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[–] DarthBill 15 years ago

Really? Where do you live?

"Breakdown" annoys me because it not only messes up Cyclops's origin - specifically his early days with the X-Men (he wasn't the clumsy laughingstock of the original 5 damn it!) but because it does nothing to make him a genuinely sympathetic character within the context of this series (I can't be the only one who noticed that he has no real character development or positive growth at all in season 1). Yeah, he had a crappy life, but so did Magneto. Tragedy alone doesn't make a character sympathetic, and having the pretty girl with the red hair basically kick you in the ass to blast a villain/anti-hero at point blank range sure as heck doesn't make a character heroic. Heroism must come from within, not from the voice of the pretty red headed girl (and I'm saying that as someone with a serious fetish for red haired women and who still prefers Cyclops with Jean - well, this series not so much). On top of that, he is never once shown being the leader he should be; he's not even allowed to be "the better man" in the initial encounter with Wolverine. Now after "Breakdown" I can't even enjoy watching Cyclops blast Wolverine (a character I never liked much); overall, it was just another "Wolverine is the Man and Cyclops is a useless loser who isn't worthy to spit on Wolvie's boots" episode (didn't we get enough of that from the movies?).

But I respect your right to disagree with me. :)

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[–] Viltrumite 14 years ago

I'm from England. I like America, but their minimum age for sex and buying booze is stupid.

I must admit, I didn't approve of Scott blasting Logan the way he did. Sure, he deserved it, but under different circumstances. I thought it was cool seeing Scott behave in such a reckless manner in this cartoon, such as when he went after Sinister. A lot of people don't take Scott or his power seriously, so it was nice to see him prove them wrong. And don't think of Jean's actions in the flashback as her neutering Scott, just see it as the writers trying to showcase Jean's power.

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[–] amazonprince71 14 years ago

Thankfully there hasn't really been a BAD X-Men Animated series IMO. (other comic book shows cannot say the same).

The 90's is probably the biggest fan fave and I love it...but one thing that bothered me is the X-Men really stopped being a team after Season 2. Seasons 3 - 5 were just random roll call eps for the most part with pick any 3 - 5 X-Men Line up that includes Wolverine, Beast and...whoever. (the only exceptions would be the Phoenix Saga's and Beyond Good and Evil).

Sometimes you had a solo ep (mostly Wolverine related)...sometimes you had an episode without Wolverine...(and by sometimes I mean there were like FOUR out of SEVENTY SIX!!).

Evolution gets a bum rap..and I agree that it has the best version of Jean Grey I've seen in years...outside the comic.

She doesn't faint, she doesn't cry out Scott's name every 2 seconds...she doesn't play Cyclops and Wolverine against each other. Good times.

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[–] DarthBill 14 years ago

I'm from England. I like America, but their minimum age for sex and buying booze is stupid.

Oh I agree.

I must admit, I didn't approve of Scott blasting Logan the way he did. Sure, he deserved it, but under different circumstances.

Just one of many examples of "Logan = Superior, Scott = Inferior". That seemed to be the core of the show's ideology. Sadly, the comics have been known to make that mistake too, as did the films.

I thought it was cool seeing Scott behave in such a reckless manner in this cartoon, such as when he went after Sinister. A lot of people don't take Scott or his power seriously, so it was nice to see him prove them wrong.

And yet he lost both bouts against Sinister & his thugs, so Wolverine could play General & lead the cavalry in. That's not exactly proving anyone wrong. And he never properly returned to the favor either.

And don't think of Jean's actions in the flashback as her neutering Scott, just see it as the writers trying to showcase Jean's power.

And they weren't clever enough to think of a way to do it that didn't completely emasculate him. Why exactly were we supposed to believe Jean fell in love with him again? Or why Emma would be even remotely interested in him?

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[–] TruthPredator 12 years ago

Can't agree there...at least Evo had a very satisfying inception and payoff with Apocalypse.

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[–] Dragonsonic 12 years ago

I like both shows for different reasons, but I do think that X-Men: Evolution had better character development than Wolverine and the X-Men since Wolverine and the X-Men focused too much on Wolverine. But then again, it wouldn't be fair to compare Wolverine and the X-Men with X-Men: Evolution since it was cancelled too soon before it really picked up the storylines.

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[–] TruthPredator 11 years ago

In some aspects....Evolution got better in the later seasons..especially when they started searching for Apocalpyse.

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[–] TruthPredator 9 years ago

They all each have strong points....XMen 90s was good because it was completely comic book accurate.......Evo was good because it was very, very funny, and fun episodes, and did a great build up and finale with Apocalpyse.....Wolverine and the X Men had a very good story line.

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