If there is a Hell
I hope Satan’s minions are cutting off this c***suckers head every hour, on the hour.
shareThe real humor in all of this is when you think about it, Henry the VIII was very much like the North Korean dictator...and more disgusting is that the current royal family in the UK owes its existence to Henry the VIII and all the atrocities he committed. It boggles the mind that the people in the UK don't rise up and eliminate the royal family today in retribution for the past crimes against humanity that the royals in the past are responsible for.
shareYou would actually be surprised how fast the public memory fades. People forget horrors very quickly in some cases. Hordes of people still came out and mourned Henry after he died. If people celebrated his death, they did it in private where nobody could see them. It was also because of him that many good things happened to England after his reign, including having a daughter who would go on to become one of the most beloved and memorable rulers the island had ever known (Elizabeth I).
Henry VIII, while remembered for his cruelty and ridiculous history of 6 wives, is a complicated man. He wasn't always a tyrannical fat-ass. When he was young, he was everything a Renaissance king should be: handsome, athletic, virile, strong, brave, cultured, and forward-thinking. It wasn't until the entanglement involving Anne Boleyn, did he start his downward spiral to the dark side.
If you study his history, the entire thing, you will find someone who isn't entirely painted as a total villain. And if it weren't for him, England would have still been stuck in the Dark Ages for another near-century.
Problem is you will find more dark dastardly rulers in the royal past than you will benevolent ones. And logically once a ruler moves to the truly dark side you cannot redeem the royal family in the future because anything good that happens in future rulers is still tainted by the evil of the past. That's why if a drug dealer has legitimate businesses the governments don't say oh we'll just take take the portion of their assets that were directly tied to the drug business and let the drug dealers family keep the parts that came from legitimate businesses... Instead the drug business taints everything and the family loses everything. That's why in a perfect world the royal family would be kicked to the curb with nothing... their empire is tainted and not just by Henry the VIII you can find plenty of other rulers that were just as vile and evil.
shareAre you seriously comparing Henry VIII to a drug lord? That's a really bad comparison.
shareWell actually the drug lord while being brutal in torture and killing were not as brutal as Henry the VIII nor have any of them killed nearly as many people as Henry did.... Remember Henry pretty much had 50,000 men women and children put to death, I don't think you can find any drug lord that has that big of a body count.
shareThat's just about tyrannical rulers killing people, it's not really a good comparison to Henry VIII. He was more than just a murderer.
I can confirm from historical documents that he did a "fire insurance" Christian Catholic confession on his deathbed (complete with clutching a rosary), in the vain hopes he would be forgiven. So it's hard to say if he was sent to hell or not.
History is full of evil people that did the deathbed request for forgiveness... Frankly that was always my biggest problem with the catholic church, the thought that even some fucker like Hitler could be forgiven.
shareHistory is full of evil people that did the deathbed request for forgiveness... Frankly that was always my biggest problem with the catholic church, the thought that even some fucker like Hitler could be forgiven.
I take it you're not really a Christian.
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." Luke 6:37
"Whoever conceals their sins does not prosper,
but the one who confesses and renounces them finds mercy." Proverbs 28:13
But, if you want to look at it from an atheist's perspective. King Henry has been dead for nearly 500 years. A pile of bones in a tomb can't harm anyone. So, any debate about whether he should or shouldn't be punished is meaningless. The threat of eternal damnation only applies to the living.
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Well clearly your not a very learned Christian because your taking things out of context.. then of course the biggest problem is the only true laws of God are the 10 commandments, what Jesus said is not the word of God and is at best the word of someone close to god... Now what was that commandment that fits here... Oh yeah, “Thou shalt not kill.” Oh and maybe “Thou shalt not commit adultery.” I think you could probably tag Henry with every fucking commandment several times over.
share"what Jesus said is not the word of God and is at best the word of someone close to god..."
Well, if you don't believe that Jesus Christ is God, then you're not a Christian. Which is what I said in the first place.
"I think you could probably tag Henry with every fucking commandment several times over."
Well, that much we agree on. But the 10 commandments only state what the cardinal sins are. They don't say anything about what punishment you get if you break them. Lets face it. Neither you or I are God. So, whatever became of Henry after he died is not our concern.
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In no place does the bible say that the father, son and holy spirit are one and the same. Each is separate but apparently you are following one of the religions that has brainwashed its members to see what is not even in the bible.
I am NOT Christian. I don't subscribe to ANY of the world's religions. In my view, Jesus Christ was an ordinary Jew who for some reason thought he had a divine right to rule over Palestine, in fulfillment of such and such a Hebrew prophecy. The Roman's begged to differ, and crucified him. In my view, Jesus Christ didn't actually believe he was God nor did he ever claim to be. The Christians made that false claim decades after his death. I am simply defining Christians as a group of people who believe that Jesus Christ is God. If you believe he was a great prophet (rather than just another wannabe, as I see him) but you don't believe he's God, you're not a Christian. You are either a Muslim or a member of Hebrew sect or possibly another religion. So, you and I are simply arguing over definitions of terms.
"The 10 commandment are the only laws that were directly handed down by god."
So, perhaps it would better to say that you're Jewish? In which case, I take it you believe in 'an eye for an eye.' So, if King Henry were alive today, you and I could debate whether or not he should be put to death or perhaps be dealt with more severely. However, we can't change what happened nearly 500 years ago, only God can do that. I may be a 'dumb ass', but I think there is one thing we can both agree on, YOU ain't God. And, as far as I am concerned YOU can't speak for him!
Let me be quite plain. I don't believe that thousands of years ago the 'volcano god' handed the Torah to Moses on the top of Mount Sinai. I believe a bunch of Rabbis (or the like) sat down one day to decide on a bunch of rules, and they claimed that it was God's law. I don't believe them. I don't believe in sin. I don't believe in Good. I don't believe in Evil. So, what do I believe in?
"TO ERR IS HUMAN, TO FORGIVE DIVINE"
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"If you knew anything about Christianity you would that that not all Christian faiths believe in the trinity"
The Jehovah's Witnesses go door to door in my neighborhood. They don't believe in the Trinity, but they do believe that everything Jesus Christ says and does is God's own will. Just like all Christians, they believe that Jesus Christ made Heaven & Earth. And, since Jesus Christ believes in forgiveness, why don't you? Perhaps it's because you're not a Christian???
In any case, the Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in eternal suffering. Jehovah either does or doesn't judge you to be worthy of salvation. According to HIS discretion (not yours!!!) Jehovah may or may not choose to resurrect King Henry. If Jehovah does not judge King Henry to be worthy, he will simply stay in his grave. Since Jehovah doesn't torture people, I don't see why the Jehovah's Witnesses would like to punish someone who has been dead for nearly 500 years.
"but apparently you a non-christian think you are someone an authority on Christianity which is pretty fucking funny."
I take it I'm supposed to believe that YOU are THE authority on Christian faith. Fine. So, why don't you tell me which Christian group doesn't believe that Jesus Christ is God? Which one does not believe in the Gospel? Which one does not believe in forgiveness?
You've already shown your ignorance, stated you aren't a Christian and yet continue rambling on about something you apparently are only familiar with from doing google searches. Hell you don't even know which churches don't believe in the trinity, the Jehovah Witnesses aren't even the largest one and yet you seem think they are the only one. Do yourself a favor and go do some more google searches before you try to spout off your self proclaimed wisdom anymore. Your ignorance right now is beyond redemption.
share"Do yourself a favor and go do some more google searches before you try to spout off your self proclaimed wisdom anymore."
Why should I do Google searches when I have YOU here? Since you're the expert, why don't help me out? Tell me which Christian groups don't believe that Jesus Christ is God, which ones don't believe in the Gospel, and which ones do not believe in forgiveness?
"Your ignorance right now is beyond redemption."
Like the Jehovah Witnesses say, it's up to God to decide who should and should not be saved. I'm not asking for YOUR forgiveness. And, frankly, if you can't answer my questions, I don't see any reason why I trust your judgement, either.
What a sterling example of Christian love right here.
shareProblem is you will find more dark dastardly rulers in the royal past than you will benevolent ones.
Agreed. In fact, I'm still trying to find any ruler in the middle ages or the Renaissance that was benevolent. Can you even mention one? Queen Elizabeth was more compassionate than her father, but I would hardly consider her benevolent. Elizabeth was far more reluctant to execute people than Henry (who in my view was a Machiavellian). Elizabeth kept Mary Queen of Scotts locked up for almost 20 years, before she finally got around to lopping off her head. Elizabeth was also very reluctant to wage war (again unlike her father), but when 'push came to shove' she defeated the Spanish armada in 1588 (with the help of Francis Drake). share
"It was also because of him that many good things happened to England after his reign, including having a daughter who would go on to become one of the most beloved and memorable rulers the island had ever known (Elizabeth I)."
You could add his Protestant reformations (which led to large settlements in the Americas) and even the simple fact that he built a strong navy.
"Henry VIII, while remembered for his cruelty and ridiculous history of 6 wives, is a complicated man."
I don't really think he was very complicated. In fact, he was very easy to understand. If he got what he wanted, he was happy a man. If he didn't get what he wanted, he as angry one. A happy king was a benevolent one. A happy king gave you money, precious gifts, land, and important titles. An angry king lopped off your head, assuming he was in a forgiving mood!
The trouble is, Henry was not easy to please. So, even if you knew the rules (and doubtless everyone did) it was not easy to follow them. If Anne Boelyn had been able to give Henry a male heir, history may well have turned out differently. And the obnoxious comments she made about him didn't help matters much.
Zeekmoont--Your comment about Anne Boelyn had been able to give Henry a male heir made me to double look. Are you aware that a men control indirectly the sex of babies????Not women can do that, you know.
share"Are you aware that a men control indirectly the sex of babies????"
Evidently, King Henry didn't know that. Otherwise, history would have been different. In any case, I've always thought that it was just a 'coin toss.' Sometimes the kid comes out a boy, sometimes it's a girl.