MovieChat Forums > Grey Gardens (2009) Discussion > = Creating ones own world =

= Creating ones own world =

posted 15 years ago by annuskavdpol
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Grey Gardens is the kind of movie that sticks with you. It is a rare gem. Something worth watching. Worth remembering. To me, the story is about "surviving" and creating ones own world. I thought the storyline was very well written. It was not complicated. In fact it was very easy to follow. Even though the subject matter was very original, the story was presented in such a way that made the complex subject matter easy to follow. It was all about cause and effect. For example, a mother and daughter were part of an elite society where things were done for them - after a turn of fortune - both the mother and daughter had to learn to fend for themselves. Neither of them had the tools, or life skills to do that in the way the majority of women do in 2009. Instead, they seem to lean on each other in such an outstanding way - which somehow gave them power to overcome huge obstacles. I think this story is an amazing account of how "love" - 'family-love' made it possible to survive. This story is about beating the odds; about remaining sane in hard times and about family love. This movie is not the conventional - Hollywood movie. The perspective of love could be torn apart - but who in the world has the right to judge them? They were self-sufficient, they didn't hurt anyone in society and even though their (mother and daughters) perspectives were 'outside the box' - it is still their right to live however they want to. That is their right; their freedom.

Annuska

[–] jamesabutler44 15 years ago

Yet another romaticized account of these two individual's story. It depicts mental illness, co-dependency and obsessive compulsive disorder. Living with dead animals, human waste and garbage has nothing to do with family love, or beating the odds. Big Edie lost her mind when her husband abandoned her and selfishly used a guilt trip to keep her naive and equally mentally unbalanced daughter at her side. If this story didn't have the element of aristocracy associated with it, people would have advocated having these two committed to a mental institution.

[–] lilypad183 15 years ago

"Big Edie lost her mind when her husband abandoned her"

let's get the truth out- mr beale did not abandon big edie, she left him. they bought gg as a summer home, she went with the children for the summer, he visited on weekends after working all week. in the fall, she refused to return to their apt. in nyc. that was her decision.
she wanted a life of partying with the "artists" she had met. she threw parties so she could sing and show off what she had. mr. beale supported them until he ran out of money in 1935. their sons were removed from their boarding schools but little edie remained at hers until she finished.

big edie also took on gould, her supposed lover, but he was gay. he left when the money ran out and the parties stopped. later she took in t. logan who did odd jobs and supposedly loved her.

who left who?

[–] jamesabutler44 15 years ago

I think the HBO dipiction of the disentegration of the marriage is probably accurate. Beale grew tired or his wife's Bohemian lifestyle and took up with his Secretary. She fantasized a possible relationship with Gould (which never materialized) - supposedly because of his sexual orientation. Big Edie in the documentary states several times "I had a wildly successful marriage." Despite the fact that her husban left her.

[–] lilypad183 15 years ago

"I think the HBO dipiction of the disentegration of the marriage is probably accurate. "

what i posted about mr beale was the truth. big edie refused to return to the nyc apt. she settled herself in with who she thought she could entertain with her singing and wild parties. all those people left when the money ran out.

mr beale was broke in 1935 but he had continued to go to gg on weekends for a long time before that. he tried to hold his family together for years while big edie partied and took up with gould. would you stay with a wife who had a live in partner?

when did a hollywood movie ever get the real facts out there?

she had a "wildly successful marriage" only in her mind. she also said she loved the catholic church but she was christian scientist.
she claimed she had her cake, chewed it, masticated it, etc. if that was true, why was she living in squalor?

by the way, if you read eva beale's book on little edie, there is a copy of the letter mr. beale sent to big edie in 1935 telling her he had no money left.
big edie had bled him dry.

[–] annuskavdpol 15 years ago

The movie "Grey Gardens" brought up very interesting subject matter. In many ways you are right. Big Edie wasn't too much of a good wife. And perhaps she wasn't too much a good mother either. She did have parties and she 'loved' her music. She didn't make any money herself - instead the money came from her husband - and then I believe when they got divorced - the ex husband still supported her the best way he could. Big Edie did not adjust. She couldn't bring herself to adapt - she never moved on with her life. For example ... she kept all her old things in the house - until they rotted and look at how the house seem to fall apart around her and little Edie. I guess that could be considered "hoarding" and the inability to let go of the past - perhaps on the verge of obsessive compulsive disorder .... the relationship between the mother and the daughter was kind of weird too. Instead of the mother supporting the daughter to find her own way - she seem to steer up towards herself instead of the outside world. Little Edie - didn't learn any survival skills from her mother - that is for sure. Their relationship with each other was most definitely co-dependent. I did like it how little Edie was able to leave the Grey Gardens after Big Edie died. It seemed that she was finally allowed to live her own life - when she was around 60 years old. I don't think Little Edie learnt anything about responsibility towards ones dreams - nor the importance of independence and self-sufficiency. On the other hand, I like the movies depiction of all of these issues. I found it to be very revealing. The director of Grey Gardens, seemed to use a cause and effect line to explain a complex family story. Mental illness and the alienation from society were exposed in a way I had never seen before. It is this cinematic interpretation that I found so incredible. Even though the story had heavy subject matter, I found the clarity of the storyline to be refreshing - because I had never seen anything like it before in my life.

Annuska

[–] lilypad183 15 years ago

"she kept all her old things in the house - until they rotted and look at how the house seem to fall apart around her and little Edie."

annusk,
they didn't keep anything of value, it was all sold so they could live.

in the doc, in the real story, they had very little except some trash. they weren't hoarders, they had no way of disposing of trash. there was almost nothing in the rooms we saw, they were stripped of most furniture, they had almost no dishes or anything most homes have.

they weren't alienated from society, they choose a solitary life.

watch the doc, you'll learn so much! hollywood shows what they want people to believe.

[–] annuskavdpol 15 years ago

LilyPad183 - my comments are based on the "Grey Gardens" 2009 movie - not on previous documentaries ... however I do thank you for bringing it to my attention that the previous documentary versus the new movie do not share all the same factual information. I guess, some aspects of "Grey Gardens" 2009 were tainted and manipulated (hence your comment:"hollywood shows what they want people to believe"). I can recall film shots - depicting the piano. The piano, for example was key in the story development. It was linked to Big Edie's personal aspirations of becoming a singer, linked to the (affair) with the music teacher and the piano was one of the main entertainment sources when she entertained her guests when she was still married. I loved the way the 'piano' was used to illustrate how Big Edie - was attached to the past. As the movie, "Grey Garden" 2009 progressed - I no longer recall seeing Big Edie using the piano. I do however remember her talking about her ambition of wanting to have had a 'singing' career and how she felt "one" when she was singing - when the documentary person interviewed her (in the final stage of the movie). The film shots of the piano, close to end of the movie, left a powerful impression on me. The rotted black and white keys on the wooden frame of the piano symbolized a past that Big Edie could never seem to let go of. It is my interpretation, from the "Grey Gardens" 2009 movie - that Big Edie cannot bring herself to let go of that one item - the piano - because she "could not let go of her past". I am not saying that my "interpretation" is the right one - (interpretation is in the eye of the viewer based on subjective movie-going experiences - in my opinion). .................. Secondly, Lilypad183, you mentioned that "they (referring to Big Edie and Little Edie) weren't alienated from society, they choose a solitary life" - do you think that if a mother and daughter 'choose' to have limitted contact with the outside world - that they are not "alienated" from society? Just because they "choose" not to be involved with society doesn't mean that they are not "alienated" from it. Again, this is own my opinion.

Annuska

[–] Marilu762 15 years ago

Big Edie clung to the past, because it represented a time in Big Edie's life when she was happy and was the star attraction with her parties and enforced audience to her music and singing. Hence Big Edie clung to the piano and the painting of herself in her heyday when she was still young, attractive and thought herself really special. In my opinion, Big and Lil' Edie did not have much choice but to live a solitary life. They certainly could not keep up with the "Jone's" in their case, and yet they lived right smack dab in the middle of high society.

[–] Marilu762 15 years ago

Big Edie was a lousy mother and wife in my opinion. Big Edie was all about Big Edie and keeping Big Edie happy. One can't hate Big Edie because she was a product of her environment and upbringing. She didn't know different. She had never been taught how to make money or how to take care of anyone else, not even herself. She thought she did, and attempted to do so, and it was surprising she did as well as she did considering. Big Edie clung to Lil' Edie because she was about all that she had left. Her sons had moved on and made lives for themselves. Even after Big Edie died, Lil' Edie did what her mother wanted as far a GG went. It was only after 2 yrs. or so that she got the courage to do some things she wanted to do. Lil' Edie truly loved her mother or else the bond would not have been so strong. About the only thing Big Edie had from her inheritance was GG and she clung to it. What made this movie so great, was probably the fact that a story came closer than ever in being real and to the facts.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] jamesabutler44 15 years ago

Beale knew that his wife wasn't sleeping with Gould. He knew that his wife was attracted to Gould, but he knew Gould was gay which is why he didn't care about him living in the house. I don't think her assessment that her marriage was "wildly successful" was only in her mind. Keep in mind, she comes from a period of time where that's what you did, married a wealthy man, and had children. What she coudn't accept is that Mr. Beale grew tired of her.

[–] Carolcan42 15 years ago

"She fantasized a possible relationship with Gould (which never materialized) - supposedly because of his sexual orientation. Big Edie in the documentary states several times "I had a wildly successful marriage." Despite the fact that her husban left her"

The movie made it seem a relationship never materialized between Gould and BE but Lois Wright who was a family friend of both Edie's for years, even lived with them refers to Gould in HER book as "an old lover" of BE .AS far as Mr. Beale leaving BE, she left him emotionally years before he left her physically.
She ended up in squalar because she threw away her money, she was selfish.

...Grace beats Karma

[–] annuskavdpol 15 years ago

What I remember from the movie was that the husband left Big Edie because he found someone else .... of course - this was in the movie, Grey Gardens - but Big Edie did seem to want to lead her 'own' life - with 'his' money - but without her husband being around. She didn't pick him up from the train station, didn't want to return to their apartment in New york and was flirting with the music teacher - any husband, with personal boundaries would get angry about these things. He did offer her many alternatives, and he even offered to arrange for his daughter to get a job as a secretary. Big Edie - did not 'move' on with her life. Maybe she couldn't .... because of mental illness - maybe she was depressed, or couldn't handle rejection, or the final abandonment of her husband (and his finances) - maybe she was lazy - but I think she was more likely to have been unable to 'pick herself up.' Perhaps, the trait, of the 'inability to take responsibility for ones life' is hereditary ... and hence she passed it on to her own daughter. Big Edie behaved in such a co-dependent manier with her daughter that is was beyond any realm of reality I have ever witnessed on the big screen. Marriage is one that can break if it is not handle with delicate care. I believe it should be a two-way street - both parties have to be into it. If only one party is making the effort (the husband) and the other party (Big Edie) doesn't care emotionally about the other one - then it is better that the relationship comes to a close. Within relationships, I don't think it is a matter of 'sides' but a matter of fact that it has to consist of two people making the consistent effort. Do you think Big Edie was 'delusional' if she called her marriage: "... a wildly successful marriage"?

Annuska

[–] lilypad183 15 years ago

"What I remember from the movie was that the husband left Big Edie because he found someone else "

they bought gg as a summer home but big edie refused to go back to nyc at the end of the first summer. mr beale never left her, she's the one responsible for leaving the marriage.
she wanted the party life with her "lover" gould so she stayed at gg and mr beale supported her financially until he went broke in 1935. big edie thought she was the star of the parties but when the money was gone, the party people were gone too.
little edie did live in nyc and must have made some kind of living until her mother wanted her to go home to her.

about the marriage, i agree that both parties have to take responsibility for the relationship but big edie chose the party life instead of her husband. her "lover" who was gay took off when the money was gone, he used her all those years.
i don't think she was delusional when she said she had a wildly successful marriage, i think that was tongue in cheek. she loved to perform for the cameras whether she had to lie or not!

[–] Marilu762 15 years ago

You missed the part that Beale's business failed, and he ran out of money. Big Edie had long before chose to live her own life apart from her husband, and with her affairs on the side as amusement. Her husband just finally found someone to comfort him, his secretary. Big Edie lived the life of the priviledged until she no longer could afford to do so, but it was the only life she knew. Big Edie was used to being cared for. She treated her husband more like a father figure than a husband. Who calls their husband, "Mr. Beale"? Mr. Beale accommodated Big Edie as long as he was possibly able to do so. Big Edie was not delusional in thinking in her mind that her marriage was widely successful because in her mind and her way of thinking, it was. She got what she wanted out of the marriage. Was it a one-way marriage? Me thinks so, very much so. Was Edie selfish and self-centered? Me thinks so, very much so.

[–] Marilu762 15 years ago

Exactly what the relationship was between Big Edie and Gould was hinted at, but never completely clarified. I believe that the relationship Big Edie and Gould shared was fulfilling to the both of them, so long as they could party and be the life of the party. When that was no longer possible, the relationship ended, and Gould moved on to greener pastures. Big Edie didn't know how to live on a budget or how to prioritize her spending. She was raised in splender and that's all she knew. Big Edie was selfish but that was all she was ever taught to be.

[–] Marilu762 15 years ago

I agree that Beale grew tired of his wife's bohemian lifestyle and could not afford to support her in the style in which she was accustomed to living. He turned to his secretary for comfort since his wife was not accommodating and she was close and handy. I believe that Big Edie was perfectly happy with the arrangement with Gould and so was he until the money ran out, then so did he. Big Edie did have a widely successful marriage in her opinion until her husband was no longer able to support her in the manner and style in which she was accustomed to living for all her life until that point.

[–] annuskavdpol 15 years ago

I can see your point that the two leading characters of the movie were indeed somewhat 'off'. There is no question that their living lifestyles - were under any kind of regular standards. I guess both of them could have had some proper "life skills" counseling.

[–] lilypad183 15 years ago

" I guess both of them could have had some proper "life skills" counseling."

annusk,
big edie was almost 80 when the doc was made, she was a bit old for life skills counseling. little edie was 56 at the time of the doc, whatever education she had wasn't anything she could earn a living at and how much "life skills counseling was available at that time to someone who was living in an isolated environment?

[–] annuskavdpol 15 years ago

Lilypad183 - in response to your reply about the "life skills counseling" - I was referring to the idea that if - Big Edie would have gone to her city center and looked for some community resources than she may had been able to have survived a little better i.e. by learning how to get a job (getting resume writing books from the library) and perhaps joining a support group of divorced women - I am sure that there were 'some' basic resources (life skills) even in those times. On the other hand - perhaps Big Edie just didn't want to get a job, be responsible nor independent. Perhaps she just loved the creation of her own world - a world where her and her daughter lived in. Perhaps, in a way, she loved her life. Because at the end of the movie, "Garden Gardens" 2009 - Little Edie mentioned something on the lines of - that she had no regrets and would not have changed her life for anything. So to me, it symbolized 'happiness' - it symbolizes that she was content with how she lived before embarking on her own ventures after her mother died. I read, on this IMDB message board - the word - delusional - when it came to Big Edie and Little Edie's lifestyle. Perhaps if an outsider looks in on their life - it would seem to be "delusional" because it does seem that Big Edie was living in the past and same with Little Edie - I noticed this by the way Little Edie was trying to dress and talk - high class - towards the end of the movie (with the documentary filmmakers "Grey Gardens" 2009)- Little Edie acted like she was a high class elite citizen, with her beautiful colored scarf on her head, the black material with large safety pin keeping the material together and her exclusive gestures. She did not seem to be a "poor" and "broken" soul - instead - an actress (hence delusional) on a stage. On that same take, perhaps, Little Edie didn't "know" she wasn't a star .... maybe she didn't realize that she was "poor" and "not high class" - perhaps somewhere along the line - she lost sense of reality and stayed in this "delusional" state - in order to survive - in any case, I loved the movie. I love how things are open to interpretation - and how lots of people who have watched the movie, "Grey Gardens" 2009 - have different ideas about the main characters and their personalities and life intentions. To me, if Big Edie and Little Edie say that were 'happy' - then I believe them to be the best judge of their own lives.

Annuska

[–] lilypad183 15 years ago

"in response to your reply about the "life skills counseling" - I was referring to the idea that if - Big Edie would have gone to her city center and looked for some community resources than she may had been able to have survived a little better i.e. by learning how to get a job (getting resume writing books from the library)"

annusk,
i seriously doubt there were life skills counselling centers in a small town in the '20's. she was married with 3 children, very few women in those days went out to work especially if they were being supported. neither of the ladies were raised to earn livings.

they certainly knew they were poor and doing without. they were brought up to make themselves appear that everything was just fine and people shouldn't know their personal business. big edie said she had a wonderful marriage, they never had an argument. she would never admit that she left that wonderful marriage to live with a gay "lover" and hold parties till the money ran out. she left the marriage because she wanted something else, the high life where she could be the star, that's the real truth. do you think someone at her age is going to spill the real truth and blab she made the wrong choice in a husband and chose a gay man instead?
little edie wanted fame in the dancing and singing world, that's what she claimed in the doc. do you think she would come out and admit that she had no talent and would get thrown off any stage? the ladies were proud, they were good liars, they weren't delusional at all.

[–] lilypad183 15 years ago

annusk,
have you seen the gg doc or read lois wright's book?

[–] Marilu762 15 years ago

You seem to have capitualized the whole story of two individuals into a nice little square box and dismissed it all as nothing.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] lilypad183 15 years ago

"have aristocracy their veins"

angel,
the only aristocracy in their veins is what big edie's father created in his own mind.
they were descended from a cabinet maker from france, they were not related to the french royal family.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] lilypad183 15 years ago

"But upper class,monied background yes."

angel,
i know what you're saying but i don't agree with "monied background". mr beale and mr bouvier went to work everyday to earn livings. that doesn't mean
"monied" in my eyes. better off than most maybe would be a better description, maybe?