MovieChat Forums > Seraphim Falls (2007) Discussion > I have a theory..... (spoilers ahead)

I have a theory..... (spoilers ahead)



[Just some ideas here. Feel free to correct me if I get any of the facts or chronology wrong. I haven't listened to the DVD commentary, so I'm not trying to convince anyone that any of the following is 'canon'.]



What if EVERYTHING after the scene where Carver uses his one bullet to shoot Hayes is the point where the movie leaves "normality"... and becomes a ghost story? Here are my ideas:

1. This is a film about personal forgiveness - but it's not a Christian movie by any means - the presence of a devil at the end certainly doesn't command any specific religion's teachings. (Especially when mixed up in the same story with Greek mythology.) I agree with the obvious theme of forgiveness/redemption, but Christianity doesn't have a monopoly on that - plenty of other ghost stories do exactly the same thing. So I just think this has a generic "you gotta let go of your personal demons" kind of message, with a few possible Bible references thrown in.

2. The missionaries in the middle of the film were ghosts, and the extremely-weathered artifacts we see (piano, etc.) belonged to them in life before their journey met an untimely end. They certainly come across as strange during the night scene: we don't see them preach; they steal; and they don't seem to mind licentiousness. Gideon sees them for what they are (in daylight), but in the darkness Carver is blinded to everything by his single-minded pursuit. These poltergeists have no real purpose besides mischief, and they can see Carver has sold his soul to vengeance, which is why they leave him only one cursed bullet - this links them to Lucifer, the other giver-of-one-bullet.

3. Carver shoots Hayes AND Gideon; they both die. This extraordinary thing is possible because of the cursed bullet the ghost-missionaries left him... everything Gideon does after this point he also does as a ghost. The dialogue from this point on becomes very important: "I've been hunting you for I don't know how long." He's already killed Gideon, but it isn't enough! Carver's family burned - "Your turn now" - but he has overstepped his authority with this desire to "send him down" to Hell. (And Gideon's "The war is over" has double meaning, too.) Notice that Gideon first quotes the Bible AFTER Carver shoots him? It's because ghost Gideon sees that Carver's soul needs rescuing; he needs to let go of his all-consuming hate and allow Gideon to go to the underworld without hindrance. Kind of like how the Old Testament Gideon's mission was to rescue Israel... but Carver is so blinded, he isn't even willing to recognize that he has already 'won'. The movie has shifted from being mainly from Gideon's point of view to mainly Carver's POV, and we don't see Gideon's death because Carver doesn't see it.

4. Carver loses the hand-to-hand combat with now-dead Gideon because he has refused to let go of his vengeance and he is now wrestling a supernatural being. At one point Carver is on top, but loses what would normally be a physical advantage because Gideon simply drags him down. Then Gideon firmly says, "It's done" when standing over Carver with the knife - because he's already been "done in" by Carver and is trying to convince him to quit. (Gideon's choice of words here is actually the only good Christian-symbolism connection, since Jesus' final words were "It is finished." Of course, there's an OT story about Jacob wrestling with an angel...) And before leaving Carver in the dust, he prophesies that following him further will only result in "torment".

5. Mr. Charon is... Charon. Obviously! One does not HAVE to be dead to be ferried to the underworld, as long as you pay - so it's not a problem that the dead Gideon and the living Carver are both allowed past. Charon's choice of words to Gideon is interesting, though: he describes the water as "life" (scriptural, or a Dune reference? ;). I take his musings on the value of a man's life as more philosophical than threatening, or bargaining... because NONE of Charon's lines here are in direct response to anything Gideon says! However, when Carver comes along, alive... Charon has not only verbal responses to Carver's questions; but also a gun. He knows that when the living want to cross, it's usually trouble. And while Gideon paused and said a prayer before entering the underworld, Carver just barges his way in.

6. Louise C. Fair is... Lucifer. Obviously! (She's a woman, after all...) This part of the film is pretty obivous; not to mention discussed to death in other threads, so there's no need for more description. I find it interesting that she lectures Carver about his self-destructive obsession with murdering (the already-dead) Gideon - even the devil knows that moral blindness can lead to something even worse: madness. Unlike Gideon, Carver doesn't hesitate to make a deal, and once again he's left with just one bullet. It should be obvious to all viewers that neither man could possibly make it out of that desert alive without supplies. So why does neither man seem concerned about this? Because hate has now blinded Carver to near-madness, and Gideon is already dead.

7. The final showdown: "Only the dead can end a war." The chase ends, again: man and ghost face off in the underworld. Gideon reminds Carver one last time that his war is over, Carver speaks the aforementioned line, and then... Gideon shoots him. Carver believes that only the dead man can end their personal war; thus, Gideon is forced to oblige him. He then offers Carver one last chance at redemption by refusing to shoot back; Carver (while remembering, or possibly seeing, his dead wife Rose) finally takes the opportunity and forgives him. Carver dies... Gideon gives him water ("life") and then helps up the ghost Carver... and they go (separately) to their individual rewards.


Yeah, I realize this all hangs on a cursed bullet... but don't it hang purty?




He who is tired of "Weird Al"... is tired of life.

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That was the best post I've read in years!

Great Thinking! Bravo!

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Wow, thanks! Of course I have no idea if any of that is what the writers/filmmakers meant to convey (and if that theory's right, I'd say they didn't do a great job of making it clear) but I had a good time sorting it out.



He who is tired of "Weird Al"... is tired of life.

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Awesome theory. You are brilliant! That's the only theory that makes sense considering that Carver said "It is done" and "If you follow me, there will only be torment."

No one else here has properly explained why he said that.

Nor has anyone explained why Carver shot his own man with his only bullet while Gideon was holding him.

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Hey, thanks! Funny, I keep waiting for someone to come along and tell me what a moron I am for all this interpretation... heh. But like you said, I think it's the only theory that explains so much while requiring the least number of [unprovable] assumptions.



He who is tired of "Weird Al"... is tired of life.

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Another thing that gives credence to your theory is that at the end, both men disappear in the desert, implying that they were no longer physical beings. So yeah, your theory seems the best one that fits the facts.

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Great post, Herr Doktor. I watched the film before I first came to this message board and yours is an interesting take on the film.

I'm don't totally agree with some of your ideas, but it will be interesting what reaction I have when I watch it again.

This Is The Age Of Steel

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Thanks. I too want to see this movie again someday, since I really only analyzed the third act. There could be more clues that confirm my theory sprinkled through the whole thing.



He who is tired of "Weird Al"... is tired of life.

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Amazing read. I hadn't even thought of so many things. Bravo.
Finally, an intelligent well-meaning post, very logical. ( unlike that buffoon in another thread who complained that Fantastic 4 is better than this ).

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Gracias!



He who is tired of "Weird Al"... is tired of life.

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[deleted]


It's been too long since I've seen the movie, now. But I'd have to guess it's the... opposite of temptation? Like a get out of Hell free card maybe?


The Doctor is out. Far out.

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[deleted]

how can you all beleive in this crap?

This is a good example how make something pretty simple very hard(and wrong)

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The missionaries in the middle of the film were ghosts

That actually makes some sense. The part that comes to mind is when he explains where he got the scar on his neck. Maybe it was actually a mortal wound. When he mentions that "God always sides with the righteous" I assumed he meant that he believed God saved him in a fight to the death. Now I see it as a possibility that he was the aggressor and that he is penitent about the outcome. Or he could even be under the illusion that he was alive and victorious. I'd have to watch it again (and I will now) to be certain. This certainly has given me something to think about.

Fear is the Mind Killer

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awesome!

just have finished the movie for the first time, and I knew directly I'd seen something extraordinary.

Your theory is amazing and will definitely join me during the next night.

Greetz from Germany

"With my sunglasses on, I'm Jack Nicholson, without them, I'm fat and seventy"

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he actually said, "only the dead have seen the end of war" meaning that there will always be some sort of war, and obviously if you are dead, then war is over for you.

So he means they are still alive so they are still at war.

Bowl a strike so we can have fun at the strip club, I wana see a real 7 - 10 split!

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A little bit of thinking can do wonderfull things!

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