dosn't english policemen carry guns?? - Life on Mars (2006) Discussion

[–] jonasq 16 years ago

no, majority of the english policemen doesn't carry guns specially those who patrolling streets, only armed units carries it.

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[–] julle91 16 years ago

thanks:)

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] CharlieX2 16 years ago

In '73 they have their service revolvers (hence Hunt swinging his around in season 2 ep 7, among others) but modern day english police aren't permitted to carry firearms. The second a firearm is involved in a situation, they have to call in the Armed Response Team.

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[–] grendelkhan 15 years ago

Actually, I don't believe that even in 1973 British police were armed, except in response to a weapons related crime (with the exception of maybe specialized units, like Special Branch.) I don't know enough to be sure about that, but I have never seen any instance in period entertainment (film, tv, or print)depicting police officers armed, except in armed robbery or similar circumstances. The "Bobbies" definitely were not. Anecodotally, firearm-related crimes were somewhat rare in Britain until the drug trade really started booming, and in response to terrorism threats. Certainly the films and tv shows of the era tended to show criminals armed more often with knives, clubs, and other weapons, with the occasional pistol or sawed-off shotgun. As the movie The Krays showed, even swords were used. Look at the Long Good Friday. Bob Hoskins doesn't pull out the firearms until after events have escalated. His men weren't regularly carrying them.

SWAT teams in the US didn't become standard until automatic weapons became increasingly involved in crime; most often in the drug trade. I suspect the rise of Armed Response in the UK is similar.

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[–] Qaoz 15 years ago

Wow, and I thought our country had strict rules on firearms. Not even cops can carry guns in Britain? What happens if a patrol is called out to a robbery in progress? Robbers might have guns or knives. Will the patrol just ignore that call and let the ART take it?

Sounds like it would take ages for the British police force to show up for anything relevant.

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[–] ela123 15 years ago

The Tactical Firearms Unit can attend an incident very quickly. And if there are police officers close to an newly developing armed incident, they attend and only intervene if safe to do so, based on an assessment of the incident, before the armed dudes turn up.
They patrol each county in a specialised vehicle and also have a central base, so they can mobilise to an incident quickly.

The unarmed police dont just see that guns are involved, shrug their shoulders, go home and have some crumpets.

For the butterflies and devotees, for the disciples of our destiny

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[–] lordrosemount 15 years ago

Indeed. British law has created a situation where the only people on the streets with guns are criminals - and many of us say the Americans are the mad ones.

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[–] southwestern71 15 years ago

On Jan 31 2010 lordrosemount said “Indeed. British law has created a situation where the only people on the streets with guns are criminals - and many of us say the Americans are the mad ones.”

Reply: What makes it worse is that because Britain’s police are corrupt working-class morons no longer capable or willing to catch proper criminals the Government criminalised the whole country. A copper who nicks a speeding motorist gets as many brownie points as if he solved a murder to make crime static’s look good at month’s end. You can shoot a traffic warden dead but if you don’t pay the fine then you really are in trouble. The police in the States may be corrupt trigger happy psycho’s but at least they still go after proper criminals.

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[–] southwestern71 15 years ago

There was a time in Britain (1920’s to 1960’s) when criminals planning a bank job would frisk each other to make sure no one was carrying a shooter (gun) as the penalty for possession was severe because the police were unarmed. The criminals weapon of choice in those days was either an ammonia gun to squirt in a victims eyes or a cosh (blackjack in American).

When Britain’s Great Train Robbery was pulled off in August 1963 when the Royal Mail’s Glasgow to London train was held up & robbed at Bridego Railway Bridge, Ledburn near Mentmore in Buckinghamshire netting £2.6 million (about £36 million in today’s money) no guns were used. The crime was immortalised in the 1988 film Buster http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094819/.

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[–] jeffhead 15 years ago

coppers in london now carry machine guns and fully exposed; due to terrorism. We all know under cover coppers carry hand guns due to a brazilian having his brains blown out in the london under ground. police here, don't carry guns outside the capital. I think?!?

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[–] The_Lord_Flashheart 15 years ago

"coppers in london now carry machine guns and fully exposed; due to terrorism."

Not all Officers carry weapons. Only Authorised Firearms Officers can. Your average Bobby doesnt.

"under cover coppers carry hand guns due to a brazilian having his brains blown out in the london under ground"

The Police were not under cover. They were plain clothed officers, who as a guess were part of the Mets firearm unit CO19.

"don't carry guns outside the capital. I think?!? "

Its pretty much the same all for around the country.

I assure you I'm not officer, I've only had a few ales

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[–] raf-33 15 years ago

CID detectives do have firearms and did in 1973 also, they are the British equivelant to US detectives and deal with serious crimes that more than likely put them up against armed suspects. It's beat cops who don't carry guns, simply because the vast majority of their work doesn't require it, and if they do run into someone with a gun they keep their distance and call the Armed Response Unit.

Though it's not unheard of to see an obviously armed police officer at an airport or during a public demo.

With your feet in the air and your head on the ground, try this sig with spinach!

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[–] rightwing_redcoat 14 years ago

While it is surprising for many people in the world to see that British police officers don't carry guns (I'm from Canada, and all police carry firearms here), the statistics show that it really isn't necessary in their country. Case in point, from 2000 - 2009 in the United Kingdom (population 60,000,000) there were 6 police officers killed by criminals. In Canada (population 32,000,000) there were 18 in that same time period. In the United States (population 300,000,000) there were over 500. So apparently us North Americans can learn something from the Brits.

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[–] tenonceb4 14 years ago

When you have the criminal class armed to the teeth with semi automatic weapons, I really don't want our cops walking into a dangerous situation unarmed. So maybe there shouldn't be such a broad brush comment made. Every day the news in Oakland and Richmond CA are riddled with people killed by gun shot. These are civilians shooting civilians. I take it in the UK civilians don't usually shoot other civilians, since Dunblaine was such a shock to the entire country. We may speak a similar language, but our societies are totally different. The UK can fit in the US like a drop in a bucket. Our problems are different from yours.

You are only limited by your own imagination.

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[–] Squeeth2 14 years ago

Every cop is a criminal; give them guns and they'll go on murder sprees and then frame Mumia abu Jamal for it. Anyway unarmed police is a bit of a myth these days it means that the shooters are hidden except for photo oppotunities with the arselikhan press.

Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.

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[–] franz-villar 14 years ago

"CID detectives do have firearms and did in 1973 also, they are the British equivelant to US detectives and deal with serious crimes that more than likely put them up against armed suspects. It's beat cops who don't carry guns, simply because the vast majority of their work doesn't require it, and if they do run into someone with a gun they keep their distance and call the Armed Response Unit"

No detectives don't carry firearms, unless they are attached to diplomatic security, royal security, a ministerial protection detail all of which I think fall under SO19, which also covrs teh armed response units.
Back in the 1970's (and through to the early 80's) any one above the rank of duty sargent or possibly inspector could authorise the release of firearms if a situation called for it, although I believe that that all changed after the Brixton riots in 1981 or 1982

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[–] Fozzy_Fozzbourne 14 years ago

Police Service of Northern Ireland officers all carry guns, they even armour plated vehicles

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[–] rehtep69 13 years ago

Yes but NI is unique because:
1. They are the only part of the UK with a border to a foreign country.
2. The border is open.
3. The foreign country is openly hostile to people from the UK with both active terrorist cells and hate campaigns/propoganda.

If you had a border with Afghanistan you would want as many armed people on your side as you possibly could, they even allow pistols there and you can use the excuse of self defence for owning one, here you will be bared from owning firearms and laughed out of the police station for even mentioning self defence, it seems rather hypocritical to me but thats politics for you in the UK. Politicians can have armed escorts but if we mere mortals wish to use something for defence we get imprisoned and worse sentances that murderers/rapists/careless drivers/pedophiles etc...

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[–] m-a-brookes 14 years ago

No they do not, they are not allowed to carry guns around. It may be the case that they can be issued a gun for a special and very specific circumstances but they certainly do not carry guns around.

In the 70s this was also true, due to historic events a proportion of the police in areas needed were allocated guns but this was not "normal" and has not been the case for a long time.

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[–] Prutgardin 14 years ago

Which is why an english policeman says: "Stop, or I'll say stop again!".

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[–] steve-862 13 years ago

Hi,

The saying in Britain is that we 'police by consent'. It means that most people are expected to respect and co-operate with police officers. That consent has been slowly ebbing away for some years and I don't blame the police for this. Respect is disappearing from our society in general and this evident on the streets.

Uniformed police officers are usually armed with an ASP, which is an extendible baton. These are pretty effective and hurt if you get hit by one. Officers might also be permitted to carry CS spray.

There are specially trained dog units available which can be called upon in a matter of a few minutes and having seen them deployed, I'd have to say to anyone resisting arrest, don't try your luck.

There are so many threats other than guns. Rocks (or other missiles) thrown at police officers, knives, chemicals such as acids and so on. These are far more common threats than guns at the moment.

In conflict scenarios police officers in the UK are always trying to bring the threat level down and pointing a gun at someone usually increases it. Emphasis in training is on communication skills. Being able to keep your cool, make yourself understood and trying to get the person to see sense is what it's all about. Then you don't have to fight them down to the ground to arrest them.

Sometimes you do have to fight them down to the ground because in some situations you recognise there is no way they are going to listen and see sense. This is where the ASP, hand to hand combat skills and the handcuffs are needed.

Guns are issued only to authorised and specially trained officers. They have to sign out their equipment and sign it back in. I was amazed that police in Canada take their firearm home with them. In fact one force require them to be in possession of it at home.

Owning a gun in this country is now very difficult. It was a knee-jerk reaction to some extent following the massacre in Dunblane and was further tightened by a couple of other incidents many years ago. So now if you want to own a handgun it is usually ordered and shipped directly to your gun club where it must stay. You can shoot it there but not take it out of the club.

Of course people can still get illegal firearms. The man who committed the Dunblane massacre had both legally obtained and illegal firearms. It was naive of the government to believe that banning almost all guns would reduce gun crime. What is done is done thought and I can't see the law being reversed.

Well I've rambled on. 'Life on Mars' was a great show and I'm now working my way through 'Ashes to Ashes' and that's pretty good.

Have a nice day!

Steve

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[–] Hammerfanatic46 13 years ago

For the record,nor do Scottish or Welsh police officers.

Gordon P. Clarkson

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[–] rehtep69 13 years ago

To see a modern day comparison of British police and their equipment with those of foreigners I suggest you take a look at a programme called police academy UK (nothing to do with the comedy films) it has four police officers: one from Australia, Zambia, Samoa and the cheif of police in Columbia. They go through British training and examine the police produres, interesting to watch. One episode deals with British police firearms training and weapons, along with riot control and general patrol. It is interesting to see your home through the eyes of outsiders so I say give it a look, I think it is 4 one hour episodes in length.

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