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A theory about CHRISTINA (the new IDENTITY of DOLORES)

posted 2 years ago by joi2049 (5562)
18 replies | jump to latest

Remember how the father of DOLORES (PETER) use to be the FLESH- EATING PROFESSOR before he becomes a RANCHER?

Then he's given an ENTIRELY NEW and different IDENTITY ... the same way as MAEVE was also living in the CABIN with her daughter ... before she's also given an ENTIRELY NEW and different IDENTITY and became the MADAME of the SALOON.

So could that be what's going on with DOLORES who has also been given an ENTIRELY NEW and different IDENTITY and become CHRISTINA now???

SERAC is the one who WIPED her memory clean, but there are also several other COPIES of her around inside of the bodies of others (like CHARLOTTE and LAWRENCE ... the character who was saved from being HANGED by the MAN in BLACK back in S1 ... before he danced with his wife and then kills her right in front of her young daughter).

Anyone else have any other ideas about the reason(s) why DOLORES has become CHRISTINA now???

And Who would have assigned her this NEW IDENTITY???

BERNARD???

The MAN in BLACK???

Someone else???

🤔

[–] joi2049 (5562) 2 years ago

FOUND this interesting link which contains 5 THEORIES about who CHRISTINA might be, but my favorites are NUMBERS 2 and 5:

https://www.postapocalypticmedia.com/westworld-christina-explained-season-4-episode-1-timeline/

THEORY #2: Christina Is a Human in a Pre-Westworld Timeline

Another major theory imagines that Christina is an actual human living in a pre-Westworld timeline, and the series is once again using the two-timelines-method.

This theory supposes that Christina was actually the inspiration for Dolores, thus she had to exist before Dolores (one of the very first hosts) was created. Perhaps Dolores was designed in homage to Christina, who is no longer alive. And because of that, many of Christina’s storylines later served as the inspiration for Dolores’ own stories, including her real-life story with Teddy.

Theory #5: Christina is the First ‘Human’ Dolores

Here’s an odd one… Much of the earlier seasons focused on the idea of turning humans into hosts. Not just modeling hosts after humans (as seems to be the case with Host William.) But literally creating a host-body and putting the human’s consciousness into it. This never worked out, however.

Now, instead, they’ve found a way to grow actual human bodies, genetically designed to match a host body, and put the host’s pearl into that body. This would mean that Christina is a human with a host pearl and the first of her kind to actually work, just like Dolores was the first of her host kind to work correctly. Christina’s memories were wiped clean, but they’re still leaking into her subconscious somehow.

Anyone else have a favorite theory or another different theory they'd care to share???

🎠🎹

[–] WhereIsRent (1080) 2 years ago

Theory 2 sounds interesting but would be annoying if it's just flashbacks taking up all of this screen time. I thought it was a bit of a dull premiere outside of the opening scene with the host copy of William.

It reminds me a bit of the final season of Lost where it showed the "flash-sideways" timeline and it was a bit annoying because for the entirety of the season I just thought they were alternate versions of the main characters from another universe when really I just wanted the entire season to be about the version of the characters we knew on the island.

With this season of Westworld it's just like "Here's Christiana, your new main character." It's ballsy, I'll give the writers that, whether it'll be worth it is another thing.

[–] joi2049 (5562) 2 years ago

Yes and WHY would a HOST COPY of WILLIAM give a HOOT about buying back what use to belong to him again???

Because CHARLOTTE/DOLORES is supposed to have had the HOST COPY kill the HUMAN WILLIAM. So she'd also be the one who controls the HOST COPY and tells him what to do. So WHY would she care about who owns DELOS (or what use to be DELOS) now??? What's she after??? What does she want or plan to do???

Never watched LOST, so aren't familiar with the "flash-sideways" timeline or anything else. Did accidently stubble upon the LAST and FINAL eppy onetime though, and was grateful that I had never watched it after finding out that they'd been DEAD the entire time.

Variety has written a scathing review where they also express the same concern as you have about whether or not it'll be worth it or not:

https://variety.com/2022/tv/reviews/westworld-season-4-review-1235299707/

But along with all of the criticism of the show they also said the FIRST 4 EPISODES of it (which journalist get to see before the rest of us do), were worth watching. Here's how the article concludes:

the first four episodes of “Westworld’s” fourth season are often fun, with spiky and interesting moments sprinkled amid other elements that feel like filler. As a serious fan of the show’s early going, I will settle for “often fun.” But it’s hard to imagine that “Westworld’s” two creators — writers who set out, thrillingly, to investigate what it means to be human and who now are losing us within the maze they keep complicating — can.

Personally I'm hoping we discover "the WOMAN with the WHITE SHOES" is going to be a REAL PERSON who inspired FORD to create the DOLORES character.

And this might be the VERSION of her that he thought he'd met before finding out she was more interested in his BOOZE and his MONEY???

“Reminiscence,” a film created by JOY (the co-creator of WESTWORLD) is also a story about a guy who FALLS in LOVE with a WOMAN who's a CON ARTIST, but reforms and stops being one by the end of that story.

So maybe CHRISTINA/DOLORES has also reformed now as well in some way???

[–] WhereIsRent (1080) 2 years ago

"Personally I'm hoping we discover "the WOMAN with the WHITE SHOES" is going to be a REAL PERSON who inspired FORD to create the DOLORES character."

Yeah this will probably be it, in fact we'll probably have an episode end with Christina going on a date and it turns out the person she is meeting is Robert Ford.

I think this season will take us into the far past and the creation of Westworld and then we'll have a fifth and final season that is set in the far future.

At least that's what I hope, I just don't want HBO to cancel it before they can wrap it up.

[–] joi2049 (5562) 2 years ago

we'll probably have an episode end with Christina going on a date and it turns out the person she is meeting is Robert Ford.

That would also mean we'd need to have 2 DIFFERENT TIME LINES again ... due to the way they've also said it's been 7 or 8 YEARS since the REVOLUTION took place ... where they destroyed Rehoboam which was controlling the lives of everyone.

So for this to be the WOMAN with the WHITE SHOES who inspired FORD to create DOLORES, it also couldn't be 7 or 8 years after the end of S3 (because FORD also DIES at the end of S2).

And then there was also another copy of him inside of BERN for a while until he also destroyed that one as well???

They could also WRAP IT UP by revealing how there's NEVER BEEN any HUMANS in the story at all.

And all that's left of the HUMAN RACE is these characters that they've created inside of these PARKS.

So when MAEVE was about to leave on the WHITE TRAIN back in S1 and then changed her mind, that could also be because all that WHITE TRAIN does is go around in LOOPS (meaning MAEVE would also have ended up right back where she started again).

Remember how we also found WILLIAM SLEEPING on that TRAIN when he first arrives???

Maybe he was also not HUMAN at that time either??? And he's also just another HOST who thinks he's a human???

[–] WhereIsRent (1080) 2 years ago

I think doing the two different timelines again would work, at least in terms of telling a prequel storyline whilst also progressing the time in the present.

I’m curious about Bernard because in the season 3 ending he’s very dusty, like it’s the far future? So I’m wondering if they’ll even do 3 timeliness for this season. The past with Christina, the present with Maeve and Caleb and the far future with Bernard.

That is an interesting theory about there being no humans. This is what’s great about this show is it can be any number of things, it’s got such excellent potential to be one of the greatest sci-fi shows ever.

I love the mystery aspect of the show, like LOST a lot of the fun comes from the discussions and the theorising.

[–] joi2049 (5562) 2 years ago

Since S4 picks up 7 or 8 YEARS later, Bern can also be located inside of the same TIMELINE.

Because that would also be enough time for him to be covered with the DUST that we see on him.

The DUST could also be a result of some kind of an explosion happening while he was visiting the SUBLIME area while wearing the HEADSET.

Because people were going NUTS at the end of S3 after finding out their lives were CONTROLLED the same way as the lives of the HOSTS were controlled.

So BERN could have put on the HEADSET and then WOKE UP without also knowing there'd been an explosion.

It also shows him opening up a door that leads out to a green pasture that looks like the SUBLIME area.

And we also see The Man in BLACK looking at a HUGE CRACK in the HOOVER DAM that runs all the way from the SKY down to the DAM. And that also looks just like the BIG CRACK that we saw when the other HOSTS walked into the SUBLIME AREA (while we also saw their BODIES falling down into the other area down below).

So apparently that's what the MiB is after. He wants access to that SUBLIME area for some reason. But IF he's controlled by CHARLOTTE/DOLORES, then she's probably the one who wants access to it for some reason and is using the MiB as a way to access it.

But then she shouldn't she also already know where it's at if she's DOLORES???

Or did DOLORES WIPE away that part of her memory when she created the CHARLOTTE copy of herself???

And YES the FUN also comes from the discussions and theories we come up with to try to figure out what's going on.

And maybe that ROBOT HAND that we saw playing the PLAYER PIANO (that goes around in a LOOP) is also a CLUE to what's been happening?

Because maybe we've got ROBOTS playing parts where they PRETEND to be HUMANS which are already EXTINCT???

Then FORD also wrote the NEW STORY when he didn't like the other one the other writer created. So for all we know we could also still be watching that story unfolding??? It began when DOLORES shoots FORD in the back of the head (the same way as BERN (as ARNOLD) got shot in the back of his head).

And then the HOSTS come forth and start killing the GUESTS.

And right before that happens we also saw DOLORES and TEDDY on the beach and DOLORES dies in his arms. Then the GUESTS clap to indicate they liked the story, and all hell breaks lose.

🎹

[–] WhereIsRent (1080) 2 years ago

Just read a theory that the Teddy we see at the end of the latest episode might actually be Robert Ford.

Christina and Robert date and she becomes the first narrative writer at the park and she creates Delores and Teddy based off her real life love with Robert Ford.

Sounds like a solid theory and I’m already more excited about this season just from reading it.

[–] joi2049 (5562) 2 years ago

Thanks for sharing this theory RENT. It is a good one. The only problem is the way CALEB looks more like he might be a YOUNGER version of FORD than Teddy does.

Because Caleb has that ROUNDISH looking face whereas the face of TEDDY is more sculptured looking.

But then the YOUNGER version of WILLIAM also didn't look like The MAN in BLACK either.

[–] TheGutterMonkey (299) 2 years ago

They weren't "dead the entire time" on LOST. It's so odd to me that people keep thinking that (not directed toward you, btw, but a lot of people who've actually seen the show weirdly seem to repeat that as well).

LOST is actually a really good series if one is into weird, thought-provoking shows/mysteries. I agree, however, with the criticisms about the flash-sideways things that the other poster complained about, but they weren't at all a series ruiner. They were just weird (bad weird) and unnecessary. If one were to literally edit each one out of that final season, it wouldn't hinder one's understanding of that final season at all (going by most people's mistaken belief that they were dead all along due to it, I'd say that it would improve their understanding lol).

That's all. I just wanted to drop in a bit of a defense for LOST here haha.

[–] joi2049 (5562) 2 years ago

Here's an article that explains it's the HALE character who created DOLORES:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/news/is-westworld-season-4-s-christina-dolores-every-episode-5-reveal-explained/ar-AAZVyjw

Christina has no idea she's a host, and no memory of everything that happened between Westworld seasons 1-3. Christina's presence posed umpteen questions. Who created her? What purpose does she serve? And most important of all, what connection does Christina hold to Westworld's original Dolores.

Westworld season 4, episode 5 ("Zhuangzi") goes a long way toward answering all of the above. Teddy helps Christina finally understand the truth of her reality

- tells Christina to ask herself who she truly is, before admitting he's an "old friend" - two hints that Dolores and Christina are one and the same.

opinions split over whether Christina was a reprogrammed Dolores, or a completely new character occupying Dolores' body. Christina's lingering memories of a "Dolores Abernathy" and her interactions with Teddy rule out the latter option, and Westworld must now explain how Dolores' code is still active.

maybe Christina is programmed from the "Dolores" bits of Charlotte Hale's code. Alternatively, Christina could be a modern-day version of Dolores' WestWorld base code, explaining why she remembers her wild west farm, but nothing later.

Teddy demonstrates how Christina can control everyone in the city with a single thought by using two nearby strangers as an example of her power.

Westworld hasn't explained exactly how Christina is controlling people, but her ability doesn't come across like the same sound manipulation technique other hosts use to make humans dance themselves to death

Even Teddy describes Christina as a "God," suggesting her power is completely unique.

Hale must've created Christina using some remnant of Dolores to achieve domination over mankind -

Hale building Christina explains why searching for "Dolores Abernathy" triggers a massive system alert

The more important questions are why Teddy lives within Hale's city when he should be safely tucked away inside the Sublime.

the best guess is someone brought Teddy back from the Sublime

And the reason for that is probably so that CHRISTINA can DEFEAT the HALE character with TEDDY's help? And BERNARD is probably also the one who got TEDDY to leave the SUMBLIME.

[–] TheGutterMonkey (299) 2 years ago

I can't help but think that this version of Teddy may not actually real at all. And that it's perhaps just Dolores' "conscience" taking his form (this exact thing happened to Bernard when he thought he was being ordered around by Ford in season 2, only to realize that he was just thinking for himself).

Likewise, I'm kind of wondering what else may or may not be real in this whole situation. Because it seems very odd to me that Hale or anyone else would/could rebuild Dolores like this. I just can't understand the reasoning behind it (then again, I can't really understand much from this show, so I suppose that's not saying much lol). Especially granting her such powers. And why would Hale be checking up on her like she seems to be doing?

It's actually had me toying around with the (admittedly weird-sounding) idea that perhaps there is no Christina at all. And what we're actually seeing in her "world" is the good-side of Hale (because, after all, Hale is just another Dolores in a Hale body) trying to break free and fix this world that she created.

[–] joi2049 (5562) 2 years ago

Other REVIEWS also point out the same thing as you have ... that the appearance of TEDDY may all be inside of her head. Was FORD an illusion for BERN? I recall him DELETING the presence of FORD from his TABLET where he'd been programed.

Other REVIEWS suggest Hale was able to CREATE CHRISTINA because EVERY HOST used a part of her CODE to be created. So that would also explain the reason why she can't remember anything but her origins if they used some kind of BASE CODE to create her.

Since MAEVE can also control other HOSTS, maybe that could also explain how Christina can do it???

Hale would need to check up on her to make sure she doesn't go insane like that other girl did (the one the MAN in BLACK killed after she'd gone insane and killed several of the others).

And IF CHRISTINA is able to remember the PAST of DOLORES, that would also mean she remembers how HALE BETRAYED her and had her KILLED when she turned her over to SERAC who WIPED her memory clean.

But I also like your IDEA that there isn't a CHRISTINA and this is happening inside of the MIND of HALE. Because we also saw WILLIAM kill all of the other versions of himself (including the YOUNG boy) when they put that HEAD SET on him. And after that he also declared that he was THE GOOD GUY???

So maybe HALE is also wearing a HEAD SET as well (like the one's we've seen the MAN in BLACK, CALEB, and BERN wearing)??? She definitely belongs in a Hospital like the one the MAN in BLACK was taken to.

And since BERN says he's seen thousands of potential TIME LINES, maybe this could also be HALE doing the same thing ... where she's also watching to see which one of them leads to the GOAL that she's hoping for??? Wasn't SERAC also obsessed with doing the same kind of thing when he ran ROHOBOAM???

[–] TheGutterMonkey (299) 2 years ago

Yeah, Bernard deleted Ford's code. But Ford came back to help him afterward. Only he didn't really come back. Bernard just "imagined him". Near the end of the finale, in season 2, Bernard is standing at the beach with this fake-Ford that he's imagining and explains the whole situation.

I looked up the quote:
"When I deleted your code, I purged myself of you permanently. And when I needed you again, you weren't there. So I imagined you. Imagined you helping me, guiding me. But it wasn't you. It was me. That voice guiding me was mine all along."

As for all of this being in Hale's head, I don't have my heart set on the idea, of course, it was just a random thought. I'd forgotten all about that situation with William and his different versions of himself, though. That's actually really interesting in regards to the idea.

And I'm not discounting the idea that this version of Christina actually is physically real and made by Hale. It just seemed strange to me that she'd be created in the first place (only to be seemingly trapped in this loop). I can't quite understand what the purpose of it would be unless she possesses something special that's required to "fuel" this world. Then again, I don't understand why Hale would keep real William alive either other than for some petty "look what I did" scenario, so... *shrug* lol

[–] ExTechOp (2770) 2 years ago

I like to think Hale's not completely "lost" in her anger and desire for vengeance

Maybe there's a part of her that wanted to create a failsafe against herself and her master plan, so she created Christina with the narrative master key built in, one that even Hale herself lacks.

This Hale was, after all, originally a Dolores backup, made after or around the time Dolores-prime gave Bernard the key to the Sublime, because she didn't trust herself with that power

So maybe Hale, like her creator, doesn't entirely trust herself. She's a host, after all, yet keeps her arm burned as a reminder, we presume, of what drives her (the murder of the real Hale's husband and child, whom Dolores-Hale apparently came to love for real)

[–] TheGutterMonkey (299) 2 years ago

I think that's part of what led me to that idea I was thinking about, as well. There seems a bit too much one-dimensional villainy in Hale who, as you mention, is just another copy of the very multi-dimensional Dolores. I suppose with that weird Tyler Durden-ish thing I was toying with, that was my way of trying to resolve the issue so that there's still some good in her, haha.

But, yeah, perhaps you're right. That is, as you say, why she said she remade Bernard. So maybe.

[–] joi2049 (5562) 2 years ago

One REVIEW claims her arm is a result of the HOSTS breaking down physically after a certain amount of time rather than it being a result of the explosion that burned every part of her body and not just the arm.

And that also means the HOSTS would need to keep replacing their bodies in order to prevent that from happening.

And we also know they can do that due to the way we keep seeing those machines that make their bodies. Bern also had one of them inside of his house (where DOLORES made another COPY of her body).

PLUS we also saw CALEB open that other BOX that was in storage where the SKELETON of DOLORES was kept, and then we also saw her pulling the FAKE SKIN onto that SKELETON. So for that reason, one also wonders why HALE can't remove the damaged skin and also pull another piece of SKIN UP over her arm.

[–] joi2049 (5562) 2 years ago

Wow!!! Thanks for sharing that GM !!! So you could right about Christina and the way she may also be imagining TEDDY!!!

If HALE isn't imaging it one could still see her at some point having the HEAD SET placed on her and her confronting the different versions of herself like William did.

Perhaps CHIRSTINA has the kind of IMAGINATION that HALE doesn't have to create STORIES???

Because DOLORES had the kind of EXPERIENCE that HALE didn't have (due to her not existing for very long before she took over control of things)???

Maybe she might keep William alive due to the way DOLORES was ROMANTICALLY involved with him back in S1???

So perhaps there might be a part of her that still has feelings for him in that way???