Knocked a point off for the ending **Spoilers** - Apocalypto (2006) Discussion

[–] jfrr62 13 years ago

To fulfill the prophecy foretold was the point, wasn't it? And the fact that the Spanish conquistadors were fierce in their Catholicism--for all the good and evil (depending on your political or historical bias) that entailed is just history. Sure, Gibson's Catholic faith informs this movie just as it did The Passion and Braveheart, but what else could he do? Make the original Spanish expolorers Lutheran or Muslim?

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[–] Degree7 13 years ago

I just thought the ending was rather hokey and contrived.

It just so happens that after all that, the Spanish decide to arrive on that day and begin their conquest. Wow, what a coincidence.

A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it. - Roger Ebert

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[–] adam_jondo 12 years ago

No.

On the day the Spanish arrived some guy in the jungle happened to be running away from some other guys in a jungle.

Zero coincidence required if you look at that way round.

If only you could see what I have seen through your eyes.

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[–] Degree7 12 years ago

It's the cinematic equivalent of the Martians landing or the Russians invading.

AKA: Deus Ex Machina

So no, it is a massive coincidence if you look at it any way around, and Hernan Cortez showing up at the end to 'save the day' is something that would only happen in the movies. It was lame.

Sometimes you have to lose yourself before you can find anything.

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[–] flyingeddies 12 years ago

I don't mind the deus ex pirate ships. The conquistadors had to show up sometime, and the likelihood of them interrupting some tribal conflict is likely.
My problem is that Jaguar's Paw (was that his name?), after taking out his adversaries largely with his wit and strength decided to take out the final two by... running to the beach? What was his plan? Swim to safety?

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[–] FirstBlood1982 12 years ago

The movie never said they were there to save the day, the Spanish were there as usurpers, not saviors.

They were there to do the same to those at the Mayan capitol that those at the capitol did to those in the jungle.

+++by His wounds we are healed. - Isaiah 53:5+++

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[–] Degree7 12 years ago

In my mind they should have either made an entire movie featuring the Spanish conquistadors, or just left it out completely. Including them at the end as an out of nowhere climax feels like Gibson was trying to have the story both ways.

A director is only as good as their last film.

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[–] FirstBlood1982 11 years ago

It wasn't 'out of nowhere,' the oracle told them he would lead them to their doom. The entire film is about the cycle of a civilization rising and falling, the Spanish were the next civilization in line after the Mayans. They were going to do the same to the Mayan capitol that those from the capitol did to the village, have their reign like the Mayans did, and eventually their society would collapse for simialar reasons.

The ending hits home the major theme of the film.

+++by His wounds we are healed. - Isaiah 53:5+++

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[–] Degree7 11 years ago

Yes, but all this can surely be inferred from a general knowledge of history. We know that the Mayan civilization is not going to last, but we don't need to see it.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to it's awesomeness.

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[–] FirstBlood1982 11 years ago

"Yes, but all this can surely be inferred from a general knowledge of history. We know that the Mayan civilization is not going to last, but we don't need to see it."

And the point of the movie is why it, and various other civilizations throughout history collapse...and how modern America is following a simialar path right now.

+++by His wounds we are healed. - Isaiah 53:5+++

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[–] Degree7 11 years ago

And the point of the movie is why it, and various other civilizations throughout history collapse...and how modern America is following a simialar path right now.

Capitalism always prevails.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness.

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[–] tightspotkilo 12 years ago

It just so happens that after all that, the Spanish decide to arrive on that day and begin their conquest. Wow, what a coincidence

That's not the "coincidence" that mattered. The coincidence that was over the top was the full eclipse of the sun at the exact moment the hero, Jaguar Paw, was to be sacrificed. The flick almost jumped the shark right there.

Get the facts first - you can distort them later!

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[–] Degree7 12 years ago

That's not the "coincidence" that mattered. The coincidence that was over the top was the full eclipse of the sun at the exact moment the hero, Jaguar Paw, was to be sacrificed. The flick almost jumped the shark right there.

I actually had no problem with that scene. Visually, it was really cool, and it made sense in a deistic, supernatural kind of way. It was almost as if God himself descended from the heavens to save Jaguar Paw. After all, wouldn't it make sense for them to time the sacrifices on the eve of such a planetary event?

A director is only as good as their last film.

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[–] warnerchild 12 years ago

if you had seen the bluray with the voiceover from mel and the writer - powerful people of the past would use their astrological knowledge to take advantage of the locals

hence they all look at each other knowingly when it happens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdTmT3wVBxM "someone should remake hollywood"

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[–] oantonio 11 years ago

As far as I know the mayans were very good astronomers and knew when eclipses would happen.

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[–] FirstBlood1982 11 years ago

"That's not the "coincidence" that mattered. The coincidence that was over the top was the full eclipse of the sun at the exact moment the hero, Jaguar Paw, was to be sacrificed. The flick almost jumped the shark right there."

One of the major themes of the film is fate, it's something that was a huge deal in the Mayan culture.

The eclipse happened precisely at that moment because Jaguar Paw represents a way of life that was destined to live on just as the people at the capitol represented one that was destined to collapse.

Fate was intervening on his behalf. It wasn't purely coincidence.

+++by His wounds we are healed. - Isaiah 53:5+++

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[–] molarmaven59 12 years ago

Degree7:

It was just as the ill little girl predicted, the change, the end.

Did you not get that?

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[–] Degree7 12 years ago

I understood that, but it was still contrived.

I would have found it much more convincing if they ran into a patrol of conquistador explorers in the jungle, but not literally right as they were landing on the coast, rowing ashore in their little boats.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to it's awesomeness.

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[–] molarmaven59 12 years ago

Degree7:

It was a dramatic device. One door closes and another opened.

I understand what you mean.

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[–] MtnMan13 10 years ago

I guess you're not one fan of dramatic irony. Oh well.

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[–] Degree7 10 years ago

Not when it's so on-the-nose.

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[–] pete36 11 years ago

It think the ending was simply mindblowing, a deserved finale to a terrific movie.
Most of these US bigbudget movies of the last years seem to completely bundle up their ending (see"The A-team, "Prometheus" or the recent "Gravity").
Gibson is right on the money.

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[–] clerlic 11 years ago

Yes, the ending still gives me chills, it was just amazing.

I don't find the arrival of the Spaniards nor the eclipse happening on the same day that big of a coincidence. IMO, complaining that it was the main character who got spared is just silly. You could just as well imagine that the main character was a guy who died right in the beginning of the movie if that's bothering you so much.

Ignore list:
crat33, Jrdmln, USArmyCaptain, Guitar_King

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[–] summerishere77 11 years ago

Yes, the ending still gives me chills, it was just amazing.

I wholeheartedly agree, he managed to save himself and now he's run into another group who will likely want to wipe him and his family out. I thought it was a very powerful ending.

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[–] Maya55555 11 years ago

That is why Jaguar Paw decided wisely to go deeper into the forrest.
The forrest is his domain.

"What is TRUTH?"

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[–] 11 years ago

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[–] rindercella 10 years ago

Nope, you're coming at it from the wrong angle. The movie's primary storyline (the kidnapping, sacrifice, and chase) is used to trace the demise of the Mayan civilization, first from within and finally from without. The film's opening quote sums up what the movie is trying to say about the natural evolution of civilizations; how they rise, fall, and are replaced. Jaguar Paw's narrative is a microcosm within a much larger framework of interpretation.

The ending is what gives the film its breadth, epic scope, and universal application. It's not just a chase film, it's about the demise and fall of empires. This is why I don't much care when people complain that it's historically inaccurate. Gibson is making statements that exceed far beyond the Mayan civilization.

^^^^^This

Although I did hear a PhD of the Maya civilization who had studied it forever; he said there were only 2 things in the film that he had a problem with:
1) some things written on a wall(minor thing), 2)the waterfall.

He went scene by scene and agreed with Mel, and he LOVED the film. This man was has a PhD in their culture, he KNOWS what he is talking about.

It's 99.5% historically accurate.

"Men like you don't die on toilets." Mel Gibson-Riggs, Lethal Weapon

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] CapitanJusticia 10 years ago

So what did you want? The Pilgrims showing up instead in the Mayflower?

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[–] pjpurple-1 10 years ago

The welfare of all the people has always been the alibi of tyrants. Albert Camus

As Darren-dude wrote- dramatic irony, yes! It was a very fitting ending. When the camera panned around and we saw who Jaguar Paw was seeing my first thoughts were about what the Spanish Conquisdadores did to the natives.

I thought that well, okay, Jaguar Paw escaped his captors and avoided being a human sacrifice. But now with the arrival of the Europeans I thought, "Now you are well and truly screwed."

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