Homo-Erotic?


This movie is boring. A couple of hippies-one growing up, the other one still trapped in the past. So what! Give us something to chew on.

The bearded guy was obviously jealous of his buddy(gay partner from the past?) growing up and having a baby/relationship and leaving him in the dust while he did nothing with his life.

The scene where he is rubbing his friends neck in the water-did he want to kill him or did he want to have sex?

You will never know because the movie doesnt say anything it leaves it to your interpretation. It was still too long at 75 minutes.

3 out of 10.

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I think you're right Hannah. I like Will Oldham's music (he's known as Bonnie Prince Billie on the circuit) but this film - for all its rave reviews - is just too meagre to hit the spot.

You can't have a guy massaging his old mate's shoulders naked without wondering at least for a moment if there's a homo-erotic subtext. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Maybe that just illustrates how their friendship was once uninhibited and now it has become stilted?

The truth is those guys are poor actors. Imagine the weight some proper acting talent would've brought to it, Ryan Gosling and Adrian Brody perhaps?

Thing is Hannah, we seem to be out of whack with the critics - they loved it!

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The truth is those guys are poor actors. Imagine the weight some proper acting talent would've brought to it, Ryan Gosling and Adrian Brody perhaps?


That's one of the funniest things I've ever read on IMDB.

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I felt that the camera spent sooo much time on his crotch or midsection in general, and on those dumb cut-off red shorts, revealing his clean-shaven (non metro-sexual) thighs and calves. This movie maker has a fascination with the male form that is only present in gay films. It is a major undertone of the movie. Male form gawking in heterosexual movies focuses on the body in a very different manner... I am completely bored watching this...

Many people explore same sex relationships in their youth, a lot of it is based on sheer sexual energy and desire for exploration, as people get older they mellow out a little and that urge for sex does dissipates somewhat.

The problem comes when when unfulfilled feelings come face to face with reality and this may be what this film was about... But I didn't really get it so it's just a feeling...

***So I've seen 4 movies/wk in theatre for a 1/4 century, call me crazy?**

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I have but one piece of information to share.

You said: "This movie maker has a fascination with the male form that is only present in gay films."

I'm pretty sure the writer-director of this film is a woman, so to refer to a "fascination with the male form" in trying to liken this film to "gay films" is sort of counterintuitive.

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I don't see why a female director can't have influences from gay cinema and gay friends, it's really no biggie the sex of the director.

I've seen surely near a 100 gay movies, some without much sexual undertones, but most with a very specific approach/emphasis and this movie fit into that mold in my eyes.

Maybe it's all just my 'gaydar', at some moments of my life, all my entourage was gay, so that I'm pretty well 'aware'

***So I've seen 4 movies/wk in theatre for a 1/4 century, call me crazy?**

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"I don't see why a female director can't have influences from gay cinema"

tallard, that is such a load of B|_|LL sjyd

Your first comment was clearly written from the assumption that the director was male. And that's why you go on to assume the director was assigning gay leanings/intentions/messages in this film. Now that you've discovered the director is NOT male, you CAN NOT paint the socalled gay-shots as "gay". If a female director (lesbian herself or not) has a fascination with the male form (and that's your only clue that the director had "gay intentions"), then she CANNOT be doing that out of some "gay perspective", by definition.

For you to make the remark ("I don't see why a female director can't have influences from gay cinema") is ridiculous and clutching at straws, really.

That you cannot even concede that you made a mistake is highly childish,


Oh well.

Condoms cause SEX like roofs cause it to RAIN

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oh pleeeaaase, you're splitting hairs. It is of absolutely no relevance the sex of the director! Did not George Michael, Franky, and Freddy Mercury sing lyrics that had heterosexual appeal? My first post pertained to the feel of the movie, not the director's genotype, sheesh, may I suggest keeping the comments about the movie.

***So I've seen 4 movies/wk in theatre for a 1/4 century, call me crazy?**

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I disagree with you - I see tallard's point and the sex of the director doesn't diminish it.

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I don't really see how a person could not be from Oregon as a native and get this movie.

In particular, the hot springs are a place where you go to RELAX - in case the massive amounts of grass being smoked did not clue you in that this was the reason to go to the hot springs in the first place.

http://members.tripod.com/~rexs13/bagby.htm

And seeing people naked at the hot springs is common and expected - along with getting your vehicles broken into but they skipped that bit of reality.

The point of this scene is entirely what it is on the surface - married guy with kid on the way has lost touch with the relaxation that comes with the territory of having no obligations... and when people are tense for a long time the only way that a person can illustrate that fact to you is to physically get you to let go...

the scene is great - it's one of those places in the film where the busy-body is reminded of a time when he had much less in life to worry about - not just mentally, but PHYSICALLY. And frankly, on a practical level the only way to maximize the benefit of being at the springs is if you let your body relax completely, not clutching to the sides as if the water is going to carry you away.

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I know this post is a hundred years old, but having just finished this film for the first time I completely concur with your view.



Favorite Pastime: Feeding Trolls

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I'm surprised 12-year-olds watched this.

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The scene had absolutely nothing to do with sexuality...Jesus Christ. (no, not a scene reference.. just Jesus Christ. Go watch something else with Scarlett Johansson and wax hipster about that.

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I think the meaning and messages in this film are in the eye of the beholder. You see the homoerotic theory as "hipster" (is Scarlett Johansson even hip anymore?), but in that scene I saw clues to the men's past relationship. It may not have necessarily been sexual, but it may not have been totally platonic either.

When Kurt said earlier that he didn't know if he could even talk to Mark anymore, it was clear to me that they used to have a closer relationship – as friends or perhaps more. The viewer can draw his own conclusion, because it's certainly not clear in the film, and your snap judgement does nothing to further the discussion.

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I just think it is a good movie. Some call it mumblecore. Some call it the realism movement. I saw Half Nelson and didn't see much in that one to connect with. I saw Goodbye Solo and really did feel something at the end, so I think that one worked. But I love this film, and not just for its style. I love what it decided to be about. Some say it is about nothing, though I don't see it that way at all. Some people go and live the American dream with the new cars and the house and all of that, and there are always the bills. Some live with less bills. It is a comparison of ways of living...not a judgement as to which is better. A comparison between living what you say or just saying it. It is two people walking down the road, stopping to talk, before parting at the crossroads. Because their paths just are...different.

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I never thought of this as "mumblecore," but you are right because this is a very free-form film, loosely structured with more of a feeling than a plot. There's nothing wrong with that, because that's how life is – at least my life.

I also saw "Half Nelson" and expected to like it because I love Ryan Gosling, but it just seemed incomplete. Ditto for "Once," which everyone but me seemed to love. The music was great, but the film felt as lazy as the title. But I really connected with "Old Joy" because is conveys the feelings of being dissatisfied with modern life and trying to connect with people and a rural reality that may or may not have ever existed.

This film captures the spirit of '70s films like "Five Easy Pieces," before boffo special effects diluted the industry.

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Related to this message:

You described very well one of the things, that make the world so unpleasant place to live in - "the implications". A guy touching physicaly other guy (even giving him massage), being jealous of his wife => implicates he is gay.

I won't discuss how uptight is american culture (seen form the screen) in some issues (nudity, sexuality) and what hysteria is being done about absolutely natural things or situations...

Yes, gay undertext maybe. As the contemporary science says, there is no "gay art", there are at best gay artists and gay audience. You can have a piece of a gay/straight artist that doesn't address sexuality of anyone, a piece of gay artist that straights never read as sexual or even gay (even if gays do it), but there may be a piece of a straight artist, who tells some simple straight story of friends, soldiers training, or guys bathing or whatever, that is regarded as strongly homoerotic in the eyes of a gay audience. But the key phrase for understanding this is to say "It affects/stimulates/addresses ME sexually." The artist - the art piece - and the art's audience are the active triangle. There is not (only) "artpiece meaning someting" that needs to be correctly created and correctly understood.

Another point is, that more than for a half century, there is the idea of Kinsey, that the sexuality is continuum. There is no set of things that implicate you are gay and set of thing implicating you are straight. Arab straight guys (or those who sleep exclusively or mostly with women) hold each other hands, russians kiss the cheeks, americans cannot even hug without compulsory manly dancing around, some eastern-europeans even cannot stand seeing the same sex around them... it differs and unveils that many of sexual borders are just superficial poses, not natural to the human.

In the case of this movie, a guy might be jealous of the other guy's life, family, Home, not of his wife and in the sexual context. The massage is not a gay scene, or gay act of one guy upon the other guy... at most it reveals the hidden fears of the other one (who cannot relax) in the scene, that might not be sexual at all. And for me, this was the only scene of the movie, that somehow exposed/discussed the sexuality of the characters. Otherwise I would call it asexual.

And finally, not to be in debt to the movie:

I found it slow, going from nowhere to nowhere, a bit drumming on my nerves. I found the Kurt character verging on the "lost but boasting" feature, stimulating in me the suspiciousness of "is the guy I talk to really spiritually questioning, or is he just full of vain spiritual word in his mouth?", kind of "marijuana, hippie-appearance and eeeenergy" type of spiritual pose.

However, the scene of finally finding the hot spring and all the bathing, listening to the forest and water - despite its slowness - woke me up from the half-sleep. A few pleasures of life crossed in one moment - a magical moment known only for those, who have already experienced it. It was worth for itself - maybe it could be a nice short film. With a "beautiful" counter-point: "The XY hot springs do not allow nudity or alcohol." It reminds me of an old american phrase: "sexandviolence".

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"If a writer of prose knows enough of what he is writing about he may omit things that he knows and the reader, if the writer is writing truly enough, will have a feeling of those things as strongly as though the writer had stated them".
-Ernest Hemingway

"The test of any story is how very good the stuff that you, not your editors, omit".
-Ernest Hemingway


This says it all. Brilliant movie that relies on the power of intimation.

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