Pronunciation
Why does Hollywood allow the expression "Coup de grace" be mispronounced as "coup de gra"? Brad Pitt mispronounced it, and now in "National Treasure 2" I hear it again from Justin Bartha. Yikes!
shareI hear what you are saying, but sometimes, phrases take on influence from the places they are used. If you used the phrase coup de gras with the original pronunciation, you would be right, but considering the phrase is not used in the context of a conversation in the root language, I think it is hard to say that the phrase must be pronounced a specific way. It is recognized by people who do not speak the languae that the phrase is derived from and has instead been incorporated into English speech.
shareThe French pronunciation of the phrase is [ku də gras], but some English speakers sometimes mispronounce it as [ku de'gra]. Omitting the final "s" is an example of a hyperforeignism: in French, this mispronunciation sounds like coup de gras, which means "blow of fat", or "cou de gras", which means "neck of fat." (From Wikipedia).
If those who mispronounce only knew how silly their utterances were...!
?? Of course the expression "un coup de grâce" is used in french, til today. Here for example:
http://imdb.com/title/tt0059062/
Even otherwise it would be entirely clear and determined how to pronounce it. I do agree with you though that the expression "coup de gras" ("bashing with fat") is purely american, that it is not used in french and that it should be pronounced with a strong mid-western accent.
At least "coup de grace" is a foreign language! Better start off with the easy stuff, like some English words? Like, how about pronouncing "Buckingham" properly?
Buckingham = Buckingum NOT Bucking-Ham
Warwick = Worrick NOT War-Wick
Leicester = Lester NOT Ly-Sester
It takes a truly special mix of arrogance and ignorance to hear how the people who live in a place pronounce their own place-names ... and then carry on pronouncing them your own way regardless!
Sort it out, or I'll come to your country and gratuitously mis-pronounce ALL your place names! :-) I already want to say "Aw, shucks", "Yee-ha", and "Howdy Pardner" to the next American I meet as some kind of payback for that pathetic Bucking-"Ham" Palace scene.
Aw'wight mate, ah'm a Cockernee sparrer, apples an' pears, lawks a mercy it's Meery Bleedin' Poppuns, spiffing cuppa tea old bean, who's for tiffin? Etc.
Give me a break! :-)
Awww, ghostgate2001, we Americans are USED to being made fun of for all our different quirky pronunciations!!! Heck, you travel 100 miles away from where I live (in any direction, really!), and you'll find drastically different pronunciations of various words (and in some cases, completely different words for the same thing!). Heck, you could come over and make fun of us to your heart's delight, and the worst that will happen is someone will think you're from a strangely different part of the country. Hehe or they'll just laugh at you =)
And Nicolas Cage didn't want to do that part: he honestly didn't want to offend anyone!
We have our own brand of weird over here (based of course on your British weird pronouciations....ahem...hehe)
Glouchester - pronounced Gloster
Worchester - pronounced Wuster
So then, who is responsible for true crimes of humanity, like:
Aloysius - pronounced Aloewishus
..... I'm just saying....
"Aloysius" is a typical bavarian first name, but its german pronunciation is not similar to "Aloewishus"...so this pronunciation was made up by a US citizen.
shareHa! Of course it was!
Some more randomly weird American pronunciations:
Reading= Redd'-ing
Oregon= or-uh-gun'
Throop=troop
Yeah, but the best is New Orleans:
Nawlins!....
K2
Congratulations on the Earth... Bill and I enjoy it on a daily basis.
Ha ha! You guys are good people - glad no-one took any offence at my lightheated little rant! :-)
The bottom line is that English is a crazy language full of pronunciation traps for people who don't already know how certain words are supposed to be pronounced. Many are completely illogical - example: a total classic is the English surname "Featherstone", which you're supposed to know to pronounce "Fan-shaw"...
I remember a schoolteacher demonstrating this classic example of just how illogical the English language can be when it comes to pronunciation:
GHOTI = FISH
GH as in "enouGH" or "touGH" is pronounced F
O as in "wOmen" is pronounced I
TI as in "igniTIon" or "naTIon" is pronounced SH
Everyone who speaks English should give themselves a pat on the back just for coping with all that. People to whom English is a second language, doubly so! :-)
One more for the road:
"Coventry" = "Kovventree" NOT "Cuvventree"
Featherstone is pronounced "Feather-stun". Featherstonehaugh is pronounced "Fanshaw".
Hoist by thine own petard there, Ghostgate!
Can you pronounce Cholmondley old chum?
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Well, I can't say that I am a student of the origins or pronunciations of names, however, all of my research has indicated that Aloysius is, indeed, pronounced Al-oo-wish-us (or something very close to it). I would be curious to know how you pronounce it. :)
I love crazy pronunciations. I have to hand it to those of the British Isles that speak Celtic though, they win, hands down in confounding americans. I bet they get a kick out of us trying to decipher how to say certain words.
I want to name my kid Siobahn just to make people scratch their heads.
"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'..."
I want to name my kid Siobahn just to make people scratch their heads.
neztra, did you mean to type "Siobhan", the Irish girl's name ?
So her brother will be called "Padraig", maybe ?
You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.
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It truly takes a special mix of ignorance, irony and arrogance for a Brit to criticize others' mispronunciation of their language when Brits see fit to butcher the heck out of every language including their own. Place names are completely different than regular words. British pronunciation of Italian words for example is as poor as their ability to cook Italian food. Pasta, one of the most commonly known words, is pronounced with a LONG A for goodness sakes. It's absolutely stomach churning to hear British try and speak a few Spanish words. Why is it so hard for the British to learn the basic vowel sounds in the latin languages? Why is it that the British pronounce "R"s where there are "A"s, like in Idea, and "A"s where there are "R"s? Like in Peter? If you wanted to order a pita wrap from Peter, he would thoroughly be confused! No The English written language is just a derivation of what all the various dialects of England which stems greatly from the Dutch and Germanic languages and pronunciations of words. Whereas the United States and Canadian pronunciation of English is a derivation of the written language as it appears. I hold that the American pronunciation are more accurate and true to the nature of the language than the British pronunciations which were altered over the ages and even altered today.
shareer.. if you find it "stomach-churning" to hear "pasta" pronounced with a short "a" (as in British English) I suggest you don't go to Italy...
Anyway, British English certainly does have some odd pronunciations and spellings, as people have said. It is pretty silly to make fun of people of people in another country (which ever one you live in) for pronouncing something "wrongly" when it is all just a matter of conventions. Having said that, the original thing about people pronouncing coup de grâce as "coo de gra" does certainly look like it was originally a "hyper-foreignism" (as I think the expression was someone used) -- ie thinking "hey this is a French expresion and the French often leave bits silent at the end of the word", whereas actually in this case they don't. However I suppose if that has become the standard American way to say it, I suppose you could say it's not wrong any more
Being from small town Texas, I use "Howdy" and "Pardner" daily, although not necessarily together. Shucks and Yee-hah also sprinkle my conversation occasionally, although I usually would say "Well, Shucks!" rather than Aw, shucks.
So if we meet I might say "Howdy" to you. Then if you say, "How are you?" or something similar, I might reply, Well Shucks, just fine. How's it goin' with you, pardner?
Got it? Well, Yee-hah!
"Mediocre Marx Brothers is better than no Marx Brothers!"
"Why can't the English teach their children how to speak? These verbal class distinctions by now should be antique..."
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