MovieChat Forums > El orfanato (2008) Discussion > Carlos's Affair and other questions

Carlos's Affair and other questions


What an awesome film!! Totally the kind of movie designed for discussion. Here are a few of the questions and theories I had:

What was the exact poisoning method?
Is it ever implied that the blackberries were really a deadly poisonous species that could be mistaken as edible? Or, more likely, were they laced, and, if so, then with what? Blackberries are fairly bitter, so there's some leeway for disguising the taste; I'd be interested to know what Benigna had access to...

Any connection between the scarecrow and Tomas's mask?
Upon first seeing Tomas, I mistook him as either a manifestation or a pastiche of the scarecrow shown in the beginning scene and later replicated by Laura in the lawn. I thought it would have had more significance, because that thing was plain creepy-looking. On that note -- why was there a scarecrow in the middle of the front lawn? I don't recall scarecrows as having a history of being lawn ornaments.

What's the significance of Laura seeing her younger self at the end?
(I believe it was Laura's younger self...) The obvious explanation is the link back to what the paranormal expert said about Doppelgangers -- as present Laura did indeed die -- but why was she running towards the lighthouse? And why the shot of the little girl making sure older Laura saw her from the window? Is it because they can't coexist in the same timeline? It also makes me question whether that was young Laura's ghost, as Laura hadn't died, but of course the film loans itself to joint paranormal and psychological theories.

Was there any possibility of an affair between Carlos and Pilar?
This was one of the predictions I had seeing the two grouped together so often. There's a predominant us-vs-them mentality between the hallucination and supernatural theories of Laura's experiences. An affair would serve as a huge metaphor of Carlos's "disloyalty" in siding against the mediums and thus the only lead they have in finding Simon.

It would be more an affair out of his skeptic resistance to change until the end of the film than one of literal lust, though there are also a lot of subtle signs of a disjointed relationship -- the symbol of the piano duet being interrupted by Simon and eventually progressing to Carlos playing a solemn few notes alone; the way each parent responds to their child and interacts with him; how Laura is portrayed as a "strong mother," in the words of the medium, while Carlos is virtually absent (think the scene where's she's telling him the story when he's really in the bathroom, or the way he falls asleep instead of tending to Simon); his eventually decision to leave the home and, effectively, the search for Simon; and the body language between them (she offers a quick kiss upon his departure, then crosses her arms and turns away as he drives off in silence).

Did anyone else have any similar thoughts?

Why the decision to emphasize "Got you!" in the opening scene?
This would imply Laura's being marked for some certain destiny or trapped, which adds an entirely new overtone of fatalism to the film.

Something interesting to note is that Benigna means "benign." Could this somehow imply that the death of the children was ultimately "benign," in some intangible, worldly sense -- "the ends justify the means?"

Tomas as a villain
My initial perception, until I saw the discussions here, was that while Tomas saw Simon as a companion, he also wanted to replace him out of envy -- the two are incredibly similar, yet while Tomas dies out of apparent cruelty and neglect, Simon dies having had a fairly normal life with loving parents. I had believed the boy in the corridor was Tomas, and that he, in showing Simon his games and knowledge, had both trapped him in the basement and gave him the mask to wear, while the other children are able to haunt Laura throughout the rest of the house.

The idea was for Tomas and Simon to "switch places," a concept compounded by their apparent interchangeability (i.e. there is heated discrepancy over which one appeared in what scenes). A notable indicator of this is the comparison between the two photos, the one of Simon and Laura used in the scavenger hunt, and the one of Tomas and Benigna in the basement (though I may have seen this incorrectly): disabled sons and passionate mothers who each express their grief in reciprocal ways, via self-sacrifice or the sacrifice of others, respectively.

There are those, however, that argue the will of the director was to paint a picture of disparity in the emotional mind, as opposed to a story of literal ghost children leading Laura throughout the movie. This creates the opportunity for a new analysis, a parallel universe theory.

The medium said something to the effect that when a great tragedy occurs, there is left a trace, like an echo, that marks the point "between two timelines." This theme is never again directly referenced as far as I know, but perhaps the reality of the situation is that we see from an alternating viewpoint of two simultaneous worlds: the literal/secular, wherein the situations were a result of hallucinations or real-life tampering (Simon overhearing the conversation between Laura and Benigna, for example), and one explained by the influence of the otherworldly.

It's an interesting idea.

anyway thanks 4 reading my wall of text, if you are in fact still alive over there. please discuss if you have any of your own theories!

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Wow. I'm going to attempt to answer as eloquently as you've been but I can't promise much!
1. I'm assuming the blackberries were poisoned with something in the preparation of them. With what, I don't know, but I could tell that whatever is was was very potent due to the reaction the medium had when she was in the trance. They were screaming and crying, and the medium kept saying they were so sick.
2. The scarecrow was in the lawn in the beginning of the film, I believe. When Laura set out to put the orphanage back to the state it was when she was there, she brought it out of the building. From my understanding, in Japanese mythology, a scarecrow represents Kuebiko- a deity that cannot walk but is all knowing. Perhaps this has something to do with it.
3. I have no explanation for who the female spirit was at the end. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Laura tell Simon that the lighthouse was magical in some way? The light was no longer used when they lived there, but she made the reflection of the clocks back off the light appear in the lighthouse to Simon so that he wouldn't be scared to sleep alone in his new room. Personally, I thought that when Laura died it was so that her adult self could be with the children to be their mother. I will have to pull out my DVD again today and watch it and ponder.
4. I do not believe Carlos and Pilar had an affair, but that is an interesting thought process. I believe that Carlis was more scientifically minded as a doctor, and was "flustered" at his wife's constant belief that Simon was alive. And that she was seeing ghosts. Calling the medium, going to the group where the others believed they had seen their children's spirit after death was just too much for him and I think he called Pilar to reinforce his own beliefs that it was, in his mind, silly.In his mind, since science cannot prove this, he doesn't believe it until it is too late, hence, the camera shot of him finding the medallion and the subsequent smile he had on his face when (in what I believe) he sees the ghosts of the children and Laura at the orphanage. I honestly think he had finally had enough and saw the toll the search for their son had on the marriage and he was done. It must be physically and emotionally draining to have a child missing. I can somewhat sympathize, for my husband and I lost a baby at 16 weeks. We were told by many people that it would either "make or break" our marriage. Fortunately, we are stronger together than we were then because we leaned on each other and sought comfort within ourselves.
5. I took the opening of the movie (1,2,3, Knock on the Wall) to be both a foreshadow of the future events in the movie and a flashback (if that is the correct term here) to set up the backstory of why Laura loved the orphanage. It didn't seem like a bad place to be and obviously left her with fond memories, which is why she wanted to reopen it and use it in the same manner.
6. I did not see Thomas as a villain. Personally, I believe Thomas' ghost (or spirit, if you wish) and the spirits of the other orphans led Simon his "house", the papers in the drawer, and the dolls in the window seat (which I found odd that Laura didn't recognize) so that they could "play" with Simon, thus leading Simon to start a new scavenger hunt for Laura to find Thomas' little house on her own when she wouldn't let Simon show her because of the party. I do not believe the scavenger hunt was set up by the ghosts, rather that the spirits helped her in the hunt so that she could find his body and be at peace.
As for the two timelines, I took that to mean that there were two levels of existence in the world- one we exist in while we are alive and the second being the spiritual (not spiritual as in God, but as in ghosts) world. Since the medium could see the sick orphans, I assumed they were on the spiritual level while Laura was on the first. Taking the pills helped Laura "merge" these two timelines/levels so that she could find her son- if he was alive, she could get help from the overdose. If not, then she could die and be with him.
(Edit: I forgot number 5, so I had to go back and put it in. I'm on a phone, not a PC, and can't scroll up and down to reread your original post. Sorry!)
I hope this makes sense! Thank you for the mental exercise at almost 4 AM. I can now rest peacefully when my husband comes home from work at 6:00 AM. Feel free to comment back if you'd like. I'd enjoy hearing your thoughts on my thoughts.


"He's a hydrocephalic and I don't think you should make fun of him!"

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Well i thought it was all pretty simple cause and effect. The ghosts were benign, Tomas only hurt Laura because she had accidently killed Simon

The children accidently killed Tomas, so his mother poisoned the children and burned the bodies, years later Laura returns, accidently kills her son and uses her power of belief and understanding that the ghosts are merely children to get them to help her understand the truth.

Really i think the whole story is simply about patience and understanding

Also yeah I think an affair is mildly insinuated as just another way that Laura is losing her husband.

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