Another Interview with David Hadyn-Jones
Here's another interview with David Hadyn-Jones. Not sure there's a whole lot new in this one, but I find the way he sees the character interesting.
Interview
Thanks, yes it is interesting BUT can't say I like his comment about deepening his relationship with Mary. For the first time in 10 years I just am not terribly interested as I hate the BMOL, don't like what they have done with Mary and Dean might just as well be off somewhere else. There have been a lot of comments here and on Previously TV that Jensen (and Jared) have been negotiating more time off in their contracts and I certainly see lots more pictures with them at home or out and about with their families but what I don't understand is if they want more time with their families why they do so many cons. Surely it would be better to commit time to the episodes rather than spend so much time going to and from cons? Is it a money thing? I mean there are only a very small proportion of fans that will ever be able to go to a con, so more time given to acting would I would have thought be more of an all round better idea. Sorry this is totally off topic (lucky I am not commenting on PT as I would get a hand slap!).
shareIf you think about it a convention commitment from the J's is usually one day. And it is on a day they wouldn't be shooting anyway. At almost every convention during filming they almost always talk about shooting until the wee hours of the morning, hopping a flight to the convention and having to be back at work early (6 am) the next morning.
I think the rumor is that they are trying to negotiate shorter seasons. That would have to be after S13 but I believe the goal is to have 6 or less episodes per season. Otherwise I don't think they will sign on for any after the 300th episode.
Also it is possible to have the J's involved in an episode in a meaningful way even if their time is limited. I have seen it done. I just don't think Dabb and this group of writers have the talent to tell more than one story in an ep. At least they haven't shown that ability so far.
"Sorry this is totally off topic (lucky I am not commenting on PT as I would get a hand slap!)."
No worries. One of the strongest things about this board is you can say what you want where you want.
"There have been a lot of comments here and on Previously TV that Jensen (and Jared) have been negotiating more time off in their contracts and I certainly see lots more pictures with them at home or out and about with their families but what I don't understand is if they want more time with their families why they do so many cons."
If you can get paid the same or more for less time worked AND do cons, I could see wanting to do that without it contradicting wanting to also spend more time with family. You are getting more time with your family, it's just at the expense of hours worked, and you're also getting more money with the cons added (plus, you get to travel to more than just Vancouver). On a personal level, it very much makes sense.
"Surely it would be better to commit time to the episodes rather than spend so much time going to and from cons?"
But the cons are done in their free time, which they've negotiated off, so it doesn't really impact the show if they were already going to have that free time off.
Is their time off noticed on the show? Yes. But I think that's down to writing and demands from the most vocal of fans.
If they get a season 14 I'll be very surprised if it's 23 episodes - which is fine with me. Quality not quantity.
There are a zillion exciting adventures to be had, so many monsters, gods or whatever to be fought and killed. The imagination of the writing team should be limitless. It's a supernatural show. Anything can happen. The show could live forever.
Instead it’s all gotten so tame & flat and dull. The Winchesters are reduced to wallpaper. And Badass Dean has apparently had his cajones snipped off. Mother Mary, Snotty Brits give orders, Cas goes to heaven, Demon Baby, Crowley & Luci bicker...critical conversations take place off screen - - none of it’s working. They’ve forgotten the past 11 years we’ve shared with Sam and Dean. We tune in FOR Sam and Dean. We want THEM leading and involved in the stories. The Amara season was bad enough, but season 12 is absolutely abysmal.
I get the impression the Js (especially Jensen) really have a blast at conventions. I don't think Jensen did at the beginning - but now, with the chance to sing, etc., he's having a great time. They both are. The Supernatural conventions are VERY lucrative for Creation and I think the boys get to pocket quite a bit as well as travel. I think they’ll continue the circuit even after Supernatural ends.
*** OT I don’t post much at PrevTV. For one thing – you cannot answer a specific post as you could at IMDb or as you can here (with indent) plus they’re somewhat "clique-y" and too many rules about posting in the wrong thread. I’m hoping this site grows and thrives.
"Instead it’s all gotten so tame & flat and dull. The Winchesters are reduced to wallpaper. And Badass Dean has apparently had his cajones snipped off. Mother Mary, Snotty Brits give orders, Cas goes to heaven, Demon Baby, Crowley & Luci bicker...critical conversations take place off screen - - none of it’s working. They’ve forgotten the past 11 years we’ve shared with Sam and Dean. We tune in FOR Sam and Dean. We want THEM leading and involved in the stories. The Amara season was bad enough, but season 12 is absolutely abysmal."
These are all of my same problems with this season.
"And Badass Dean has apparently had his cajones snipped off."
And I think this started right after he had the MoC removed. It's just that I expected more of a payoff from it than we got in season 11, so it all seems pointless now and has only gotten worse this season. And yet here I am still hoping for more of a payoff again. Daft, I know.
I had a thought about Dean's behavior this season. From the first episode American Hunters have been depicted as apes, no more than dogs taught to obey. For some reason Dabb has chosen Dean as the slovenly, uncouth epitome of the American Hunter. From the way he eats to being covered in monster guts and flinging parts all over the Bunker to being kind of a creepy womanizer (that pickup scene with the waitress was wierd, I don't care if he does look like Jensen Ackles I would have told him to take a hike). I suppose to contrast the prim and proper Mr. Ketch, everything tidy and in it's place? That and Dean just seems cool with all the lying and betrayal from Mary and Sam.
I don't understand the neutering of Dean Winchester though. Why is he not a badass hunter anymore. He got taken out by a guy in goat costume FFS!
Dean has been very much depicted as an uncivilized caveman compared to the BMoL, particularly with the Negan bat. I think him hitting on the waitress as well as his focus on the Colt and hamburger were meant to show that he doesn't have the same interest in hunting when it's under the umbrella of working for the BMoL, while Sam and Mary have both been flourishing under them. I'm expecting some kind of fracturing between Dean and the rest of his family. Dabb said this season was about finding out what hunting meant to the characters and their views on how they wanted to do it, and Dean does not fit in with Sam and Mary's thoughts on either of those things at this time. The only thing keeping Dean there is Sam, but if Sam keeps choosing Mary/BMoL/everything else over Dean (which he has been doing in small and more blatant ways all season), then something has to give, and I see Dean walking away (even if it's just for the summer). He's very unhappy right now, hence the waitress, burger, Colt, and thoughts on what his legacy are, and if Mary comes back, I could seem him thinking, 'They can watch one another's backs. I'll be back if they need help, but peace out until then.' Especially if something happens in the finale that gets someone they know killed because of the BMoL.
shareAs much as I would like Dean to take a time out to find out what he as a person actually wants I don't think Dabb has the balls to actually do it.
Especially if Mary doesn't make it past the finale as Dean leaving if Mary dies makes him the dick and wipes out everything else. If he leaves and she is alive because he can't settle into her and Sam's world that will not make her loved in any sense or fashion which supposedly we will. In fact if the point of this season is finding out what hunting meant to the characters and Sam and Mary are the ones that like it under the men of letters umbrella and Dean is the one that leaves then it shows Sam and Mary are dicks and should be considered the possible big bads of the next season.
"As much as I would like Dean to take a time out to find out what he as a person actually wants I don't think Dabb has the balls to actually do it."
Ah no, I don't see him leaving if Mary dies, but I don't think she's going to die. If they think Mary sacrificing herself for her sons will make me like her, they're wrong. *SPOILER* Especially if they have Dean confront her about everything going back to Azazel's deal, which he's supposed to do in episode 22. *END SPOILER* I would be supremely pissed off if he vents on her and then she turns around and sacrifices herself, because A) Dean would blame himself for everything he said to her and would think it's his fault she chose to sacrifice herself to make it right; and B) Going back to Heaven is what she wants, and she's been doing what she wants all season. If they want to redeem her, then they have to put more effort into it and make her really sacrifice what she wants by not dying and by making her stick around to fix what she broke.
"then it shows Sam and Mary are dicks and should be considered the possible big bads of the next season."
I don't think they'll continue to work with the BMoL once they find out the BMoL have been killing people and are coming after them, but I do think they'll want to continue with the types of toys the BMoL have and some of their ideas, otherwise why would both of them think that the BMoL are doing things better and changing the world? They'll want to start up their own US MoL, and while Dean loves his room in the bunker and has proudly said he's a legacy a few times since the concept of MoL was introduced, it's something this show has strongly implied is more Sam's thing (and to excess this season). If Sam rebuilds the MoL in the US, then I see Dean sticking with hunting. I don't know where Mary fits into that, but I'm guessing that she'll want to be a part of helping to organize things the way she's seen them done with the BMoL.
'If they want to redeem her, then they have to put more effort into it and make her really sacrifice what she wants by not dying and by making her stick around to fix what she broke.'
I don't have faith that Dabb will do that, I don't have faith that Dean will even get to express truly if he is unhappy about the situation that has gone on, I don't have faith to say that if he does he won't be told to shut up because he is out of line and Sam and Mary will be shown to be the ones that are supposedly right and if they do I can't watch the show anymore, because bad writing and doing down Dean and Cas won't be the problem for me.
'I do think they'll want to continue with the types of toys the BMoL have and some of their ideas, otherwise why would both of them think that the BMoL are doing things better and changing the world?'
Because that is the problem I have. I can't get over Sam standing there when the BMoL saying they were for wiping out all vampires and treating them like terrorists and him not saying a word, in fact the vamp situation causing him to sign up.
Now I get they went with the Vamps to introduce the bomb type weapons in the Raid episode, vamps become vampires. But we've seen good vamps who don't feed on humans out of choice, rare I know but we know they exist and we know that Sam knows that and he asked no real questions. The idea of one of our heroes advocating for choice when he's done it since season 2 went out the window - that is the first bad taste left in my mouth.
Then we also had a mention of gas bombs against werewolves and that creepy clingy pureblood describe the death of his pack. But Purebloods are born and gas bombs don't discriminate. That is why they had Dean's line about bullets - Dean faces the being he kills. It's judgemental, yes but it discriminates. The men of letters toys don't! - that is the second really bad taste in my mouth and all that is done is telling Mick off for that girl and telling him about Garth???
Because and please go with me and call me a SJW if you want and say werewolf is unreliable but the way that guy talked he was raised in a family within that pack. Yeah he grew up but the way he talked the survivors from the attack ran not fought ran. Survivors who run have to be fit enough to run compared to other ones didn't get the chance - the weaker ones. Who is weaker in a family, kids and elderly! Mick said the BMoL wiped out all werewolves in the UK in the 20's including purebloods. That means not only Sam but Dean is flat out told by a man of letters that they have gas bombs and that their criteria for using them is just to be of that creature class. Now a Men of letters raid against werewolves may not be shown but that is Mick is flat out stating all werewolves are killed no matter what state they are in and that story is backed up by the clingy stalker pureblood! It takes an idiot not to see that what is being stated is that the men of letters are happy taking out families possibly with children just because they aren't 100% human.
And the boys still willingly work with them because they told Mick not to kill Claire unless he has to and that killing Hayden was wrong. Mick told them his organisation was happy wiping out anything if they don't fit the MoL mould and they know the organisation is not just Mick!!!
So I don't know if I want to watch a show that has anything from the British men of letters around. Especially if the idea of season 13 is that we are supposed to follow both Sam and Mary happily using the BMoL ways and tools while Dean uses his room as his hunter central. Unless the idea is that Sam and Mary are the big bads to be stopped.
Because the British men of letters is a nasty ideological army anything that follows that ideology/code is tainted and we can't pretend the brothers aren't aware even without knowing about the soldiers deaths. The price to be paid for their new world sucks and their vision is down right scary!
So even trying to 'rebuild' it once Hess and Ketch is defeated I don't think will work for me. The writers have taken the British men of letters too far and stated they are so organised that kicking them out of the US and saying that Sam is going to become the grand high poohbah of the MoL Ivormory and everything will be sugar and spice and all things nice won't wash. The US MoL will be tied even just by reputation to the British one, which will still exist unless the brothers travel to the UK and kill every BMoL, just like the brothers rep is now tied to the BMoL. The taint will be there.
Which I think is a shame as the boys and the US hunters were evolving towards a sort of hunter police force/US MoL themselves without the ideological implications before the BMoL turned up. With those that knew each other helping each other out and calling each other and having in the past Garth and Bobby being there to back them up and then the boys in the bunker themselves taking that job.
It would be good to have a like button as I so agree with your post, however it is probably better to actually write that down. As soon as the "all monsters have been killed" and the "wonder weapons of mass monster destruction" were introduced I felt that the show had gone down a route I just can't go with them. The whole premise of the show has changed and I can't see a way back.
shareThanks and agree a like button would be nice.
And yes the wonder weapons was a step too far for me. And the only way back for me is if other chapters of the men of letters turn up and say they are at war with the London house.
Without that any thought of rebuilding the US MoL is out of the question and if they did and Sam is part of it then it still is tainted by the BMoL.
"Because and please go with me and call me a SJW if you want and say werewolf is unreliable but the way that guy talked he was raised in a family within that pack."
So, should I call you a WSJW - Werewolf social justice warrior? ;)
Somewhat OT, but I feel like this season, we're seeing what the BMoL have been doing, because Dabb thinks it's a way of doing something we've already seen in a way we haven't seen it. For instance, imagine if we'd seen Ruby doing whatever it is she did off screen in season 4. How much worse would Sam have looked if we saw Ruby's plans throughout season 4? Dean had a bad feeling about working with her and Sam using his powers, and he was as right then as he is now, but if we saw why he was right every episode, because we saw what she was doing behind their backs, you would've felt similarly then as you do now. Think about how much more annoyed you might have been with Sam in season 4 for doing things, like using his powers, drinking demon blood, draining that nurse to kill Lilith, or killing Lilith if you'd known since the start of the season what Ruby's motivations were and what she was doing behind the scenes? Think about how much more annoyed you would've been with Dean for reluctantly agreeing to work with Ruby in IKWYDLS and Heaven and Hell if you knew Ruby's motivations for helping them in those episodes.
We're seeing everything from the BMoL perspective and getting nothing from the Winchesters' perspective, which is why we're not seeing the conversations we're used to seeing on screen this year. They're still having them, I guess, but off-screen. That's where the concept is most flawed, because it doesn't make for an enjoyable viewing experience if you are a fan of the Winchesters. If they'd kept the BMoL off screen all season, and we never saw the things they were doing, we'd be as surprised by the turn when it happens as Sam will (not Dean, because again, Dean has been right about them and is reluctantly working with them because it's what Sam wants, just like with what happened with Ruby in season 4 even though he knew she was a demon . . . until he saw Sam drinking demon blood and then his reluctant cooperation changed). I'm guessing that's also what's going on with Cas. We're going to see him come back different, because he'll be more in line with his season 4 way of thinking when it comes to the nephilim and Winchesters either through reprogramming or just wanting to fall in line with his fellow angels.
Call me what you like ;)
And agree the way we have had a lack of why they joined is a problem. Especially in light of what we've seen from the BMoL.
But also I can't pretend Sam was in that room when the descriptions of wiping out all vamps was discussed. He knows there are good vamps, he knows there are vamp victims who could be cured. But Dabb got him to sign on.
"But also I can't pretend Sam was in that room when the descriptions of wiping out all vamps was discussed. He knows there are good vamps, he knows there are vamp victims who could be cured. But Dabb got him to sign on."
No I agree, but I'm also thinking back to when Ruby convinced Sam to drain that nurse who was possessed but fully awake. It's just that instead of Ruby we have Mary as a representative of the BMoL convincing him to do it.
But it can't be brushed over like last time. Because it will be portrayed as Mary's fault not Sam's. Like it was with Ruby. Sam never faced any push back for that act.
He's in his 30's when the fuck does he own his own decisions???????
Dean has the excuse of not being in that room when the vamp crap went down but I hold him responsible for continuing to work with the men of letters when the werewolves were mentioned.
" Sam never faced any push back for that act."
He did from me, but I know that doesn't matter in terms of the show. :)
Out of all the things Sam has done, I consider that to be his worst, because she was awake and aware of what was happening. And as far as I know, Dean still has no idea that happened with the nurse. Nobody outside Sam and Ruby know about it.
"Dean has the excuse of not being in that room when the vamp crap went down but I hold him responsible for continuing to work with the men of letters when the werewolves were mentioned."
But this is what he did in working with Ruby even though he knew Ruby was a demon. Also, while Mick may have said that about the werewolves in the 20s, Dean was quick to say not all werewolves were bad in a conversation about the past I'm sure he thought was hypothetical until Mick killed the girl in the hospital, and then Dean confronted him about it. I think Mick, as their new face of the BMoL, had changed enough by the end of the episode by helping Claire and saving Dean, that Dean was willing to give Mick another chance (Just like he gave Ruby a chance after Heaven and Hell). Why is he then continuing to work with the BMoL now that Ketch is the face of the BMoL? Because Sam. It doesn't mean he's happy about it, hence the reason he is trying to pretend like he's okay by focusing on things, like the Colt, waitresses, and burgers.
Also, if you believe like I do that the sheriff's brother was a parallel with Sam, then the brother's actions in sacrificing innocents to 'save the town' and for personal gain wasn't flattering. The brother flipping around Dean's philosophy on the family business wasn't flattering and neither was the brother saying, "I'm the hero. You're dead," just before Sam shot him.
shareNo I didn't find the parallels flattering for either brother.
But again I find many won't draw the parallels. If we are watching a show where the heroes are working who eliminate groups because they are not what they desire with the caveat they are saving people we need something hard and defined.
We need Sam to actually be told that it isn't just a parallel - we need something like Ketch's info hunt means Hess offers Sam a place with the men of letters but says that Dean isn't men of letters material so will have to be eliminated. Because without Mick's death I could see the situation where the men of letters off Dean in a way that isn't obvious (ie sets up a case where Dean dies) and Sam would still work with them happily after grieving.
"No I didn't find the parallels flattering for either brother."
I didn't mind Dean's parallel with the sheriff. The sheriff had been trying to do the right thing since he was put in charge of the family business and wanted to make up for their past by helping people. He got burnt out, because doing the right thing never panned out for him. He was interested in taxidermy instead of finding a missing kid, the same way Dean was focused on a waitress and a burger instead of doing the hunt. I think it's an honest account of where Dean is right now.
I guess the sheriff's legacy was a dead brother after said brother went bad. Taking that into account, I don't know. Maybe you're right. Maybe they will turn Sam into the villain, but they haven't been showing it . . . like at all. We haven't seen Sam pondering anything on his own this season, whether it's Mary or the BMoL, anything, and if they want a big twist, maybe that's why they haven't shown any of those things. Maybe that's why they made such a show of having Dean and Sam carve their initials into the table, not because the bunker is about to be destroyed, but because their relationship is. Maybe this is the way they've decided to deal with J2s being on the show less. Maybe maybe that's why Jared is so excited about the finale . . . But I don't think the show will go there even though the brothers have seemed apart while standing next to one another all season. Fans will complain about it, but they can live with it. What many fans probably won't live with is a separation of the brothers for long.
As it stands and until we're shown more of Sam going full-on baddie, I think Sam seemed genuinely appalled by what Mick did to the werewolf girl in the hospital. I think we're supposed to believe he's either filtering out information to make what the BMoL are doing not be what he's hearing, or he doesn't actually believe that's what they're doing, so they can drag this BMoL thing out as long as possible. He hasn't actually been involved in any of these hunts where they wipe out entire monster families. And I think that just like with Dean, Mick talking about what the BMoL did in the 20s, was something Sam mostly thought was a discussion about the past from a guy who only ever read about werewolves in a historical context . . . until Mick killed the girl in the hospital.
It's a storyline that at best paints Sam as a denier of what's going on when it's spelled out to him, because he only wants to see the good and is willing to live with the wrongdoing as long as he doesn't see it. It is something that we tend to look upon harshly when people have been in similar situations historically and isn't something that is good for his character, but it doesn't make him an outright villain. In theory, he could come back from it. Who the hell knows what Dean knows at this point. Almost everything of importance has been talked about off-screen this season.
I get where you are coming from. It is just I can't help but dislike where they have taken the brothers with this storyline.
Sam feels more like a mol true believer and has thrown his so called principles about things not being black and white in the bin even if he pays lip service to them.
So they need to have conversations on screen desperately because I am finding it harder and harder to get behind the brothers anymore. But maybe I'm not the type of fan the show runners want.
I say this as I do feel that Sam is heading towards villain for me and Dean seems to be putting up with things. But even if he took Mick's words about the gas as something that happened in the past. He is still willing to work with the men of letters when the one he liked pulled a gun on a friend and started screaming about how she had to die for a code. Not because Mick was angry about his colleague dying but a code and how it didn't matter how he died.
Mick's speech about the brothers before he died may have been nice at the end but I can't help but hate what Dabb has done to the brothers this season with this storyline. Because as I said if Mick was still around it does feel that if the men of letters were smart enough to off the skeptical Winchester in a way that doesn't really dirty their hands then I could see Sam and Mary still happily work with them after they gave Dean a hunters funeral and how the hell can that be right??
"I think they’ll continue the circuit even after Supernatural ends."
Yeah, the boys said they would continue the conventions after the show ended.
And I agree with your entire comment :).
"Thanks, yes it is interesting BUT can't say I like his comment about deepening his relationship with Mary. For the first time in 10 years I just am not terribly interested as I hate the BMOL"
*POTENTIAL SPOILERS THROUGHOUT*
I also hate the BMoL. Unfortunately, I think we're stuck with them going into next year. There are only 5 episodes left, and Dean and Sam still have no idea how truly villainous the BMoL are. From the looks of things, they won't find out in the next episode, and in the episode after that, Mary only starts having doubts about them (I'm guessing it has something to do with Toni coming back).
Dean and Sam still don't know that Lucifer is topside and with Crowley either, so that has to be dealt with as does where Cas has been and what he's been doing. Plus, they have to figure out what to do about Dagon (I expect this to be dealt with in the next episode), Kelly, and the nephilim, which is where all of their focus has been. I'm not expecting them to find out about the BMoL until the end of episode 21/start of episode 22 but most of their focus will be on Kelly/nephilim by that point (*SPOILER* And whatever reason Jody has to be in 22), and that leaves Lucifer and the BMoL to do something in the finale that will be the set up for next year.