"I agree with you 100% about killing Crowley being a big mistake, but I think I've lost so much faith in TPTB that I'm not really sure they are aware of what constitutes a grievous mistake."
Based on the way this season is going, it's clear they don't. They destroyed the powerful symbol that was Mary Winchester and phased Dean, and the brothers out of the story.
"Somebody is going to be thrown away to facilitate their new vision of the show."
Yep! That's the scary part. Based on their priorities, it looks like they're going to throw away and important character they'll never be able to replace, not even with 5 new ones.
"Kind of feel like they've been doing it to Dean and to a lesser extent Sam this season too, and look at what they've done to Mary."
Definitely.
"Maybe it will be Mary, but I don't want it to be her. I think I saw a spoiler that Dean confronts Mary about her deal with Azazel in 22, something I was hoping someone would do this season, and I could see them have him unload on her only for her to die to try and make up for her mistakes, which would destroy him next year."
I've been wondering about this deal. When Mary was being written as if she still might care about her kids (before "The Foundry), she mentioned being ashamed about her deal with Azazel, then they moved into the character into the direction she's currently in (can't be bothered with her kids), and she never brought it up again.
I'm among those who don't believe Dean would be destroyed if Mary dies. He mourned an illusion and when he got to meet her, he didn't like who she was (why don't you try being a mom for once, I really, really don't like your choices but I guess I can't stop you from being who you are, a person who makes the kind of choices I don't understand or approve of). He will grieve sure, but he has no relationship with her, and I don't think he'll spin out of control if she dies. I guess time will tell.
"And if that's what they decide to do, it wouldn't make me hate Lucifer. It'd make me hate the writers' vision of this show and the character of Mary more."
It wouldn't make me hate Lucifer either, but it would be yet one more thing that made season 12 non re-watchable for me.
"It'd be almost a direct repeat of John's storyline. All throughout season 1, we got John not being present, the same way Mary hasn't been present this season, but Dean and Sam had a previous relationship with John that they talked about, and we could see that relationship for all its strengths and flaws when the three of them came together. Mary hasn't been present all season, but there isn't really a previous relationship that Mary has with her sons at this point, and she hasn't done anything to build one up with them either, so we don't see it when she's around them."
I agree. There would be similarities with the John storyline and the difference would be that the boys don't have a relationship with Mary. Their memories of her have even been retconned into possible make-believe this season. We're now to believe that Mary was hunting while she was married, left her young kids knowing she might not come back and lied to John about what she was doing. Yet during those hunting expeditions, she never thought to try to find a loophole for the deal she made with Azazel. What was she doing? Hunting for the thrill? And then the memories of the caring mother Dean kept in is mind are being called into question because apparently she never cooked. What else is he wrong about now? Did she really sing "Hey Jude" to him, feed him rice tomato soup when he was sick? Did he really call him her little angel, cut the crust of his sandwiches and hug him? Who the hell was/is she?
"When she does things to sound like a Mom, like say 'Don't give me that look,' or 'Screens down, eyes up, shut up (and Sam snaps to like a good little soldier),' I think most in the fandom are annoyed by it, because it's trying to force a relationship that isn't there."
It definitely annoys me and I love that Dean is impervious to Mary's 'discipline'. He doesn't respect her authority or fall in line because she hasn't earned it.
"In IMToD, Sam confronted John when he thought John was going to summon the demon to kill it instead of find a way to help Dean. Now we've got Dean confronting Mary in a similar way. John ultimately sacrificed himself for Dean, and if they have Mary die, it'll be a sacrifice for her sons (to make the parallels exact, I guess it'd have to be for Sam), but it will ring hollow. The writers will have taken the easy way out rather than try to fix Mary by showing her journey to building a relationship with her sons next season, or you know come up with a storyline that isn't a poor rip-off of John's."
They were dead wrong for this May storyline but Dabb is on his cloud, drunk on power and convinced he's writing a compelling story. A shame.
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CluelessDrifter (884)
8 years ago
"I'm among those who don't believe Dean would be destroyed if Mary dies. "
I agree about Dean not being destroyed if she dies as it stands now, but if he doles out some harsh criticism of her and that's what leads her to sacrifice herself, I could see him taking the blame for it and being destroyed by it in that way.
"They were dead wrong for this May storyline but Dabb is on his cloud, drunk on power and convinced he's writing a compelling story. A shame."
Absolutely!
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Bella-UK (1288)
8 years ago
I don't want Crowley, Rowena or Jodi to take that final bow out. I think it would be hard for a spin-off if she is killed off. If it was Claire that wouldn't bother me, I think she gets many fans backs up with her attitude and get the feeling she's not liked. But then it's not about those characters who are not liked but about those who are. Mark Shepperd is one of the few characters who have escaped death and has survived up to now, so he could be the likely candidate. But I think being a regular will they go there, after what happened with Cas and Bobby S7 ala Sera Gamble. Rowena is just settling in now and has already died recently over Lucifer. So I don't feel it's gonna be her. She is popular though.
I like the idea of Dean and Mary if there might be a twist coming there that we might not have thought of. I can see a repeat of Sam and Dean in the church S8. That Dean has mum issues and needs to air them.
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aduty1 (160)
8 years ago
Here's the thing, if MarkS has been joking at conventions that Crowley is going to die then it virtually ensures he will survive the finale. I was hoping that Jodi would be a cameo but there is a rumor that she has a scene with Mary.
The whole episode may be Dean and Jodi tearing into Mary about how awful she has been acting so she can redeem herself. Jodi dies so there is no mother figure competition and they can reboot Mary next season and try again.
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Virile Manifestation of the Divine (1020)
8 years ago
"Here's the thing, if Mark S has been joking at conventions that Crowley is going to die then it virtually ensures he will survive the finale."
This gives me a tiny bit of hope that Crowley might survive. Mark S could very well be trolling us.
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