Sam/Eileen
OK show, you finally introduced a potential love interest that fans don't hate. DON'T BLOW IT!
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I'm not totally on board...
but I really like Eileen!
If they date I wouldn't hate it. At least I could say Sam's found himself a good woman for a change.
I've had major issues with his taste in women for yeaaarrrrs now.
I don't give a damn one way or the other at this point. I just see it as very clearly another thing on JP's "list of things" he wants for Sam that the showrunners are faithfully ticking off this season.
In the meantime and by contrast, they can barely be bothered to remember that Jensen Ackles still works on the show, and Dean is mostly not there even when he is, and has nothing to do so that Sam can do everything on the "list of things".
So if the fans and showrunners want me to give a damn about a romance for Sam, they need to start writing Dean as a part of the show again, because right now he really isn't.
I see your point when it comes to the writing for Dean but JP's been saying he doesn't want a love interest for 3 years now so I doubt this was on his "list".
shareBut is he saying that this year? I don't know, I can actually see him wanting a LI at this point in the series life, it feels like a ticky box wish list item, and I'm fine with that. If either brother is going to have a steady LI, it works best for Sam, IMO, and I've always thought that.
However, nothing that happens to Sam or any other character is going to matter to me at all as long as my hook character is being utterly ignored. In other words, wake me up when Dean Winchester is a legit character on the show again.
"In other words, wake me up when Dean Winchester is a legit character on the show again."
I don't understand what's going on and I hope something changes. Jensen's never been shy about telling fans that he talked to/called the writers when he had... concerns about certain storylines. I hope he can say something and be heard if he has issues with his current role on the show. They're kidding themselves if they don't think Jensen is essential to the survival of this series.
I'm just trying to be realistic. J2 aren't available as much as they have been in the past. The show has to work around this. Not much of what Dabb has been throwing around has worked particularly now that Mick is out of the picture. I have seen a lot of positivity about Eileen especially her interactions with Sam.
With J2's new schedule, it's time they split the boys up a bit. Sam and Dean chained at the hip results in episodes like the other night where they are in it for about 10 minutes. If they split up more that doubles it to 20 minutes or about half the episode.
They just have to come up with better story lines. Sam and Eileen hunting together more could be fun. They HAVE to give Dean a storyline. Single hunts or hell bring back Benny. Come up with something with Crowley beside the eternal one up man ship between him and Lucifer. Let Crowley and Castile do the buddy cop thing for awhile, that was great.
They have to do something. The majority of this season is just not working.
I know the Js aren't available as much as they've been in the past.
PA and I's issue is the writing for Dean, when he is on screen.
I personally (and I'm not alone in this) have zero interest in the brothers not being joined at the hip. It's precisely the reason I watch this show. I also don't really care to see Sam and Eileen hunting together or Dean off somewhere with Benny all the time.
J2 also had a reduced schedule in seasons 10 and 11 and I loved those. They focused intensely on Sam and Dean and their relationship while giving other characters something to do.
I accept that the Js have negotiated some time off and I've been okay with that for years, but when Sam and Dean are on screen, the writers should exploit the talent of their actors to the max and that's not what's happening here.
Dean definitely has to have a story. Trouble is they are available 87 days a season and probably less when they negotiate season 14. We are stuck with either several episodes where Sam and Dean are in a ten minute side story or they split them up and we get more time with the characters we care about. Jensen wanted the Demon Dean arc to go longer with the two split and I think that would have worked for a few episodes.
If they split the two for some episodes (but still reunite or stay in contact) they could weave in episodes where the boys are in all five acts. It is very noticeable how little Sam and Dean are around this year and the Dean in the woods thing is getting ridiculous.
Has anyone worked out how many minutes they were actually on screen in this last episode?
And even when they are on screen, they're standing around in background. If Dean didn't get to drive the car, he'd not be needed at all.
I'd be ok with a Dean-centric or Sam-centric episode every once in a while. These writers appear to have forgotten the bread & butter of the show - namely Sam and Dean - and give all their attention to weekly guest stars or arc baddies.
"I'd be ok with a Dean-centric or Sam-centric episode every once in a while."
Exactly. The show's always had those. An episode here and there is fine. It can't become the norm though.
"These writers appear to have forgotten the bread & butter of the show - namely Sam and Dean - and give all their attention to weekly guest stars or arc baddies."
True, which is why I find the ratings still too high to get the message across that many of us are not enjoying the way the current showrunner is handling things.
I don't know how many minutes, but, no, it's not a lot anymore, and both brothers have been reduced to virtual guest stars more often than not.
But the difference between Sam screen time and Dean screen time now is that at least Sam is involved and doing something when he is on screen, even if it's just interacting with the guest stars. In fact, it's very clear that where Dean used to have screen time with guest stars, the new world order is such that Dean is no longer allowed to interact at all with them so that only Sam gets those moments. In contrast Dean either just stands around and stays mute, blending into the wallpaper, or is sent off into the cornfield so he can't possibly connect with anyone much less be involved with the storyline. It's ridiculous in how obvious it is, which just makes it look like it's personal on Dabb's part, whether it is or not.
This has always been the problem with the show, though, which is stupid being that there still are, legally, only two leads. Nowhere near as bad as it is now, granted, but there have been problems in the past too.
I have no problem with them writing Deancentric and Samcentric episodes if they were at least equal. I also don't have any problem with splitting up the guys if, again, it gives both supposed leads something to do and some connection with the storyline. I also don't have problem with them being joined at the hip, but, once again, both guys need to be involved regardless of how much or little screen time they have. Right now one of the two has not been involved with anyone or anything most of the season - and that's Dean. And if Dean isn't involved, then I'm not involved, plain and simple.
Bottom line, this show desperately needs far more competent showrunning than it has now. If the showrunning was better and stronger, then even weak writers would turn out better scripts, and it wouldn't be as obvious that the two leads have cut their time.
"Bottom line, this show desperately needs far more competent showrunning than it has now. If the showrunning was better and stronger, then even weak writers would turn out better scripts, and it wouldn't be as obvious that the two leads have cut their time."
You hit the nail on the head. The problem is in the execution. They know the availability better than anyone and they need to account for it. If J2 are only available for 3 days or they need to save days for a J2 heavy shoot, spread the days out. Have J2 together 1 day for start of the ep and the recap. Send them off on separate hunts or have the hunt require them to be in separate places. Just get them back together at the end of the ep or develop a decent story for the other characters. One of my top 10 eps is Weekend at Bobby's and my second favorite ep of season 11 was Don't call me Shurley.
They used to be able to handle this better. Maybe Dabb and Singer were off those days.
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"the Dean in the woods thing is getting ridiculous"
It's infuriating lol.
Personally, I would have no problem with Dean and Sam not being joined at the hip as long as it's not due to some kind of falling out. If they're good, but need to split up their time to focus on different threats, get equal focus storyline-wise, and keep in touch, that would be fine with me, especially since it's looking more and more like they're going to be attacked on all fronts about this nephilim (Crowley, Cas/angels, BMoL).
About Eileen . . . Let me start by saying that I really like Eileen. Regarding Eileen and Sam . . . I think they started planting the seeds for this last season in Baby. Sam wanted to know if Dean had ever wondered about having something with a hunter, not marriage, but something. Dean dodged it and changed the subject, which said more than if he'd answered yes or no. And because of his confessional scene in Paint It Black in season 10, we know that when Dean thought he was going to come to an end faster than he'd thought, he wanted to experience things and emotions differently than he had in the past or maybe for the first time. Then you have the conversation Sam and Dean had in Into the Mystic when they're doing a salt and burn. Sam said he had given up hope on retirement, but at the end you have him holding onto the pamphlet for the retirement home. Then later in the season, you have Cesar and Jesse. Dean's the one who asks them what it's like to settle down with a hunter, and at the end, Dean chooses not to ask them for help with Amara, because he doesn't want to get in the way of two hunters retiring and settling down together before it's too late.
To me, it makes sense that both Sam and Dean at this point in their lives would wonder about and want these kinds of relationships. If neither of them wanted to have something more in their lives, then them not getting something more wouldn't be tragic. Even a relationship with their Mom is too much for them to be allowed to have and adds to the tragic aspects of the show. It's because they want these kinds of relationships deep down and can't let themselves have them as long as they're hunters or because people die or outright reject them that this story is a tragedy despite all of the humorous moments in the show (Comedy = wedding at the end; Tragedy = death at the end. I'll add that this seems to be what the fans want. They don't want the brothers parted, with other people, in romantic relationships, etc., and given what we know about Sam and Dean, that's a tragic tale, not a happy one, because both brothers want more than that deep down but can't have it).
Despite this shaping up to be a tragedy, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that one or both of them might consider looking for romantic relationships in the world of hunters. The two romantic relationships that Sam has had were both built on lies. Maybe he thinks that being in a relationship with someone who knows about the supernatural and who he doesn't have lie to about anything would make it 3rd time lucky for him. With Dean, Lisa knew about the supernatural world, but she wasn't a hunter and therefore didn't know how to protect herself the way a hunter would, and because she wasn't a hunter, she never really quite understood Dean.
Enter Eileen. Sam may have wondered about having something real with a hunter, but that's different than finding one that he actually likes, and I think that what we'll see is that he's going to be reluctant to try anything even with a hunter, and if he's not reluctant and decides to go for it, then Eileen won't last the series . . . Again. Tragedy. So, if you want Eileen to stick around, then she can't be with Sam.