Rate The Raid 12.14


What did you think of the latest episode?

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Are we rating or discussing?

I liked it. Badass hurt, angry, suspicious and smart Dean. You're a killer, Dean Winchester. How many times has someone told him that this season? Poor Ketch thinking he almost had Dean. Gotta admit I was hoping he would look a little more "I'd like to rip your throat out rather than be talking to you now" in the insanely expensive scotch scene but that's just me. I mean, he was wearing the "murder shirt" wasn't he? And when Ketch was making the offer I wonder if the memory of the time he bribed Rufus with JWB flashed thru Deans mind at all.... ;). And Dean let Ketch do all the talking and gave up nothing. I knew Ketch and Toni were a thing. I initially thought he was the father of Toni's son. Scratch that one. Ketch really does sound like a psychopath. I like him! ;). Dean and he looked deadly scarily badass when they entered that building and rounded the corner. And Dean still took point indicating which way Ketch needed to go... always the leader. And the "I'll make it quick" - shivers.

Badass hurt, confused, angry, suspicious vamp killing Sam. I like how he took control and was the logical and intelligent one during the raid. Sam did a lot of sizing them up before they were ever attacked. I like that they gave the Alpha kill to Sam but I wish they would have made it harder. Brilliant deception and fake to get the bullet and the "replay" by the vamp was cool but for him to just stand there while Sam shot him? He's fast, he could have grabbed Mary, tried to lunge at Sam... something. But no. He took it like a vamp- I mean, champ. Bye Rick Worthy were gonna miss ya.

That opening scene. When Sam asked that all important question and the truth came out about Cas's near and Wallys actual death. They were both so hurt and angry. Deans "I never was" in response to Mary telling him he's not a child. *sniff* Sam letting Dean speak for both of them. The inflection Jensen used when Dean was talking to her, asking her how she thought it had been for them, about how she's been gone their whole lives. Poor boys. And then Sam telling her she should go, essentially backing up everything Dean had said...


I thought the "Hey let's bring the ALL POWERFUL COLT into the mix EVEN THO WE ALL KNOW IT DOESNT HAVE ANY BULLETS which means as a weapon unless you are going to beat someone over the head with it, is COMPLETELY USELESS. Bringing it in to the room in a briefcase and unveiling it as if it was the solution when they knew it wasn't. No one had the bullets. No one could have know Ruby had shown Bobby that it could still be used without the original thirteen. No one there had any idea that Sam knew the "recipe" (it hurts to write that) for the bullets. That was so illogical that it threw me out of the show entirely. Also what happened to the "glow"? ;). I was touched over the emotions that Sam was experiencing when he laid his eyes on the Colt after all this time. It looked like he teared up? So much history with that thing.

So Sams on board and is going to try to convince Dean. I wonder how Deans going to feel about the BMOLs using Mary to get the colt and how Sam is going to feel when he finds out how they use Ketch to "clean up" the "monsters" or "witnesses" Sam and Dean have spared.

Pierce would have been a tad more believeable if he were a tad more believeable. Also "alimonies a bitch" - really?

Loved the 'didn't get involved because well, it's England' (sorry Bella!) and 'get off my lawn' lines!

The Alpha really does hate Sam and Dean, doesn't he? I once kind of thought he respected them but I think not.

Loved the "head shot". ;)

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I loved the beginning with Sam and Dean being honest about how they felt to Mary. The rest had a lot of logic issues. Sam's decision. He has seen first hand two botched hunts with the BMOL's. How can he say they make the world a better place? Just because they killed a bunch of vamps before it all went bad? They were ill prepared, uninformed and incompetent in both hunts. So he is on board because they have cool toys that were useless? They were so well organized? They weren't. I am at a loss.

Sam killed the Alpha Vamp with the gun that Mary stole in a hunt where she got an innocent man killed and lied about it. All is forgiven? Because she's mom? And didn't they have to take the Colt aprart in order to load it? Yes that whole sequence with the Colt was so oddly written and edited.

I am getting so tired of Mary "the best" Winchester hype. Since when? How is she better that Sam and Dean or any run of the mill hunter? She knew for 10 years that the YED was going to visit her home and she was surprised when he showed up? Not very skilled. And if she was uber hunter why hadn't anyone heard of her. John worked with every hunter in the US and no one ever crossed paths with Mary? Or had ever heard of her or the Campbells before she was killed. I wish they hadn't re written her history.

Dean lets Ketch in the Bunker for a bottle of scotch? He's such a cheap date. Especially after the big speech to Sam about picking a side. So what side is Dean on? He saw how psycho Ketch was. Is he still off the BMOL's train?

It was an ok episode that moved the plot along and I suppose is going to drive a wedge between Sam and Dean. Great.

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"I am getting so tired of Mary "the best" Winchester hype. Since when?"

Thank you. She's been out of the game since forever and she didn't even hunt as long as Sam and Dean seeing as she semi-retired when she got married and then died a few years later.

"And if she was uber hunter why hadn't anyone heard of her. John worked with every hunter in the US and no one ever crossed paths with Mary? Or had ever heard of her or the Campbells before she was killed. I wish they hadn't re written her history."

She retired a while ago but a legend is a legend. The hunting community still remembers John. Mary, not so much.

"Dean lets Ketch in the Bunker for a bottle of scotch? He's such a cheap date. Especially after the big speech to Sam about picking a side. So what side is Dean on? He saw how psycho Ketch was. Is he still off the BMOL's train"

Good point. I was like, really Dean, go buy yourself a whisky somewhere lol. He didn't like Ketch's methods. I have no idea where he stands but if the shows cares about characterization (lol!), he should still have a problem with the BMOLs. I really want him to stay out of it.

"I suppose is going to drive a wedge between Sam and Dean. Great."

Sigh.

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"I mean, he was wearing the "murder shirt" wasn't he?"

When I saw it I went, uh oh... lol

I like Ketch too.

"Brilliant deception and fake to get the bullet and the "replay" by the vamp was cool but for him to just stand there while Sam shot him?"

He was going to die anyway but it didn't make sense that he didn't try to move, do something, anything. He had some good lines. A good actor is a good actor is a good actor. He had like 2 minutes on screen and he delivered. I'll miss him.

"Pierce would have been a tad more believeable if he were a tad more believeable."

He doesn't really seem to be hunter material, you're right :)

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I didn't like it, I suppose it didn't help that I watched after reading what a lot of others said so I was looking out for specific parts. I loved the first part where Dean especially said what he thought to Mary and Sam sided with him. Apart from that I thought the Alpha Vamp was totally wasted, he was IMO a really good character and it should have been a much more dramatic kill. I continue to loath the BMOL story line - 241 vamps killed - whatever - it just makes Sam and Dean look pathetic with their tally of kills. I can't see how the writers are going to get out of the "wonder weapons" that can kill everything scenario because if they don't then we might as well end the series now. I have read a few reviews that have understood where Mary is coming from but I just cannot stand her - why bring back their mother to make her such an unsympathetic character - IMO anyway! I am struggling to write this as I find it difficult to care at the moment.

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I find it difficult to care also. Mary is literally ruining the series for me. Every episode she's in is sure to be annoying at this point. I thought The Raid was the worst episode of the season. Maybe 2.5/10? I'm still debating. I have to write a review and I'm struggling to get through the episode lol.

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I agree. Get rid of Mary. She's sympathetic and apologetic, but she's STILL making bad decisions.

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I kind of like that tho. So much better than her hanging around doing laundry, watching Netflix and tagging along on hunts. Or the flip side - all mother all the time. Cooking, cleaning and chiding Dean on his drinking and dating habits. I guess what I mean is at least they have made her her own person. Complete with flaws. I don't agree with the whole super huntress Mary will wipe out the monsters of the world to make life safe for her boys - that is eye rollingly predictable as well as predictable. I wish she had a more obvious reason. But I'm glad they have tried to give the character some depth.

I think Dean forgave her too quickly tho. I wonder if he knows about the colt and Mary's part in the theft yet. These two boys are so used to being hurt and their emotions driven into the ground that it's no wonder they buried even this to move forward.

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I kind of like that tho. So much better than her hanging around doing laundry, watching Netflix and tagging along on hunts. Or the flip side - all mother all the time. Cooking, cleaning and chiding Dean on his drinking and dating habits. I guess what I mean is at least they have made her her own person. Complete with flaws. I don't agree with the whole super huntress Mary will wipe out the monsters of the world to make life safe for her boys - that is eye rollingly ridiculous as well as predictable. I wish she had a more obvious reason. But I'm glad they have tried to give the character some depth.

I think Dean forgave her too quickly tho. I wonder if he knows about the colt and Mary's part in the theft yet. These two boys are so used to being hurt and their emotions driven into the ground that it's no wonder they buried even this to move forward.

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I’m on the fence about this one. It reminded me a lot of S4- and not in a good way. The storytelling was good. The action was good. But once again, we have a wedge being driven between Sam and Dean. In S4 it was the angels telling Dean to embrace the killer in him in order to get information from Alastair that would, ultimately, save the world. And Ruby was whispering in Sam’s ear that he needed to do whatever it takes to stop Lilith if he had any hopes of going back to a normal, safe life.

Now we have Ketch telling Dean to embrace his inner killer, and Mary telling Sam that helping the BMoL is his way back to the life he had when he was going to college. We’ve seen this before; pitting the brothers against each other didn’t end well. And it led to years of angst and distrust. They were finally back on the same page—on the same side. I really don’t want to see that end.

Sam and Dean are older and wiser, so perhaps we’ll see a different outcome this time around.
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I really hope we see a different outcome this time.
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Please, let there be a different outcome!

There were no real surprises in this episode. Pierce, the unknown hunter who Sam said Rufus worked with… only once. It was very much like Ellen’s warning Sam about working with Gordon. I kind of knew from the start he was not to be trusted. And when Mick stole the bullets to the Colt, it was clear he would get one to Sam. The “this is how they did it” scene seemed like a re-hash of the devil’s trap bullet scene with Henry and Abbadon in As Time Goes By. After the suspense of last week, this one just felt a little predictable.

I rate it 7/10.

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"It reminded me a lot of S4- and not in a good way."

Me too!!!! Like you I want to hope that Sam and Dean are wiser but I don't think this is going anywhere good. I think Sam aligning himself with the BMOLs is a mistake.

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I really enjoyed this episode, I didn’t think I would due to it being Dean lite, as you can tell I am a Deans girl. I can understand Jensen wanted to be with his family, for the birth of his twins.
I was pleased they continued with the conversation between Mary and the boys. I was sad to see Sam wanting to join the men of letters, why doesn’t Sam just say to Dean he wants to work with them instead of being sneaky and going behind his back again. Dean is going to feel so betrayed again by his whole family. Dean and Mr Ketch can team up I suppose, but Dean is nothing like him.
Had they teamed up when Dean had the Mark of Cain, it might have been a different.





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4/10

“The Raid” started off at 2.5 and then I had to focus on its structure and on plot advancement to scrounge up a few more points. Still, it's one I would erase from my collection if I actually did things like that. The aggravation is simply not worth it.

Mary's obsession with the BMOLs is downright disturbing at this point. She's like a brainwashed cult member who starts every three sentences with “What the British Men of Letters are doing”. Even when she's pretending to apologize “I messed up”, it's automatically followed by a pitch about the BMOLs. She tells Sam she's not trying to recruit him and immediately proceeds to giving him the grand tour of the BMOL base. Even when the moment doesn't lend itself to it, or demands a different kind of emotion, a bit of understanding, self reflection, some degree of compassion, or God forbid, a motherly touch, she's utterly incapable of breaking out of recruiter mode. Yes, but the BMOL. No, but the BMOL. What about the BMOL. She's like a sheep who's drunk the Kool-Aid and we know how that story ends. I can't take her seriously when she calls the BMOL way, sending hunters to die on faulty intel and completely unraveling in the face of an external attack, the “better way”. Ding dong! Yep, you know it, time for...

Yet another scathing segment on Mother Dearest!

Dean asked Mary how she think it had been for them. Well, my dear, she doesn't think about it. It's all about her, her need for space, how inconvenient this Earth thing is for her, and now her grand, ill-advised plan to work with the shady BMOLs. How you feel about everything, what you need? Not her problem. Mary saying she's not just a mom is laughable. That sentence only makes sense if she had spent any part of her time, actually being a mom. Her first order of business soon after she met her son was to leave and then stay gone. Her child is hurting, right in front of her, and she responds with most self-righteousness and selfishness. It's past the time for him to expect to have a mom and be treated like a child. Her sons have been orphans all their lives. The first thing a decent mother would do when she finds them is sit with them and get to know them. Not bail and then get angry that those boys, broken and endlessly battered by life still have a longing for her because they've reached an arbitrary number of years that should magically rid them of the need to have 'Mamma'.

“I'm doing this for you.”

What a joke. Mary's idea of mothering is leaving her sons behind and running around with strangers. She has time for all those big elaborate hunting plans, but won't stop a minute to truly,truly hear her son. Maybe she wouldn't be so defensive if somewhere deep down she didn't have some idea that she's going about this all wrong. Mary says she wants normal lives for Sam and Dean. How about getting to know them first, see what their lives have truly been like, what they've been through, out of their own mouths instead of from the cold pages of John's Journal. How about making an attempt to understand what they truly want. She's the one who had a problem with her children being raised in the life. She's trying to change their lives based on what she wants for them. Their actual desires are in fact, irrelevant to her. This is still about her. Grand gestures like the one she's “fighting for” are meaningless when she's so disconnected that she's incapable of reaching out to her child from the heart. Everything with her rings hollow. There's no warmth. No soul. No depth. No real significance to anything she does.

“It's not your job to make my lunch and kiss me at night.”

What a crock of cow manure. It's exactly what her job is. Her sons have been without a mother all her life, and this narrative is acting like it's beyond her to take some time getting to know them, mother them a bit, and then go about her business. This is what happens when people are used to have nothing and are constantly denied. They feel guilty for expecting even crumbs that should be their birthright, and of course, Dean, who's always ready to take the responsibility of everything on his shoulders, beat himself up for expecting people to step up and actually show up for him, is letting Mary off the hook for the appalling selfishness she's demonstrated toward him. Sam of course, seems not to take it as personal. Maybe because he doesn't have the same emotional wounds seeing as he actually had someone to take care of him even if it wasn't always easy, someone to look after him and that someone didn't quit even when he got big enough to pass as a giant on the pretext that “we're adults” now. Dean's a better mother than Mary.

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PART 2

Pick a side. Team Low Budget Mission Impossible. Team Scotch... Not!

I usually hate storylines that put the brothers are odds and am desperate for them to be resolved so they can go back to being a team. Of course, I'd love them to be united now but fact is, Sam has picked his side, and it's not Dean's. For once I'd like Dean to be his own island. Time and time again, he's proven that he has very good instincts, and when he's warned people to stay away from something, it usually ended up blowing up in their faces in a spectacular way. I would like for him to let these adults make their choices that are almost guaranteed to end badly for them. An organization that stands by while the world is on the brink of destruction time and time again, and is full with sociopaths and out of touch bureaucrats who think gizmos are superior to actual hunters. What could possibly go wrong here? Resist, Dean. Stay out of it. Unfortunately, I don't think the show will let him. Sammy's now the recruiter. Dean doesn't stand a chance.

Team Scotch Not. Dean gets the "you're a killer" speech, yet again, and somehow, he's the one who stops Ketch when he goes Gordon Walker on the female vampire. When Ketch hauls the hunter off, saying that they have ways to deal with rogues, and that they aren't "pleasant", it's Sam, who should know better, having experienced first hand the non "pleasant" ways in which BMOLs deal with hunters they have a problem with, who echoes Mary's "good" while Dean looks a bit concerned. Once again, Dean is at a distance (an image we've seen several times this season), from Sam and Mary, and all I can say is son, stay on that island. Don't let yourself get roped into this because Team Low Budget Mission Impossible is going nowhere good.

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PART 3

Final verdict

"I need to hit something, now."

Exactly how I felt watching this episode. “The Raid” gave us Mary fighting for all the wrong things, Sam deciding to join an organization after having front row seat to how incompetent they could be and Dean opening his door for Scotch like Rufus (who was mentioned in the episode by Pierce) did for some Johnny Walker Blue. Tsk tsk tsk.

On the other hand, Sam was fantastic when he was in hunter mode, proving again, that the hunter toolkit does in fact work, and Dean broke my heart with his words to Stone Cold Mary.

I didn't care for his conversation with Mary at the end. There he goes again, conceding, compromising, while the other person isn't expected to make the slightest adjustment to their behavior. He still snuck in there that he "really, really" didn't like her choice but meh to the entire thing.

As for Mother Dearest, she remains withholding, selfish, and lacking in empathy. She hasn't spent any valuable time being a mother but she can stay in recruiting mode all day. I need space, I'm gone, but I need you for this hunt so everybody shut up and hear my plan, I'm gone again, I'm back, come to this shady base and work for these shady dudes with a shady track record. I'm not just a mom. Get over it. Me, me, me. A good mother cares and heals. All this one has brought so far is heartache and division.


Full review including Best Dean moments, Best Sam moments, Best broments and Best quote here:
https://samanddeanbrothersinarms.wordpress.com/2017/03/06/xii-winchester-brothers-report-sammy-lucy-im%E2%80%95/

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Thanks for the review and I am totally with you on the Mary being a crap person not really fit to be called a mother! What really is getting me at the moment is all the stuff on social media that we are wrong to hate on Mary as if that is personal against the actress. I get fed up with this view i.e. “people” like the actress like Felicia as Charlie and therefore we must like the character but apart from the couple of early episodes with Charlie which I enjoyed when they made her too much of a Mary Sue I just didn't like her – Charlie that is! I understand that J2 like certain people and would like to keep them around but for us the viewer that only works if they are written well and do not make J2 into secondary actors in the story

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Couldn't agree more. I'm also annoyed by the people who are wagging their fingers at those who don't like Mary. That's fandom for ya. It's not going to change anything though. Mary isn't a likable person and no one will stop me from screaming it from the rooftops lol.

Like for example, I loved Charlie, but I have zero problem understanding and accepting the fact that many people didn't. They're entitled to their opinion :)

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Yes...Mary drank tha Koolaid and was promised Utopia. Her sons can only offer more of the same. Hunting monsters and never getting ahead...dying bloody. But the price seems to be their freedom. Something that Sam doesn't see yet. If Mary had spent time with her sons she may have found out from them that they have been offered Paradise before and look how that turned out.
If this is the type of character assassination they had in mind for Mary they should have left her in heaven. Where her poor tortured sons at least had good memories/thoughts of her. The hole is dug so deep for her character I can't see any redemption no matter what she does.
Sam has seen nothing but incompetence to down right horrendous behavour from the BMOL's. I didn't understand his decision at all. Or his almost instant forgivness of Mary's betrayal. He chooses them/her over Dean? The guy that has stood by Sam through everything for his entire life? Great another wedge. If Dabb has Dean agree to go along then the entire season will be a bust for me. I wasn't on board with Mary to begin with but compared to the Baby Mama Drama at least there is something to be angry about instead of just bored to tears.
I actually liked the scene with Ketch and Dean. Yes they called him a killer but then he proved he wasn't. Dean wasn't buying for one second what Ketch was selling. He went on the hunt because he needed to "punch" something. But he isn't a sociopath. And I think that surprised Mr. Ketch.

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"But the price seems to be their freedom. "

Exactly. They become hired guns. I'm so hoping Dean will tell the BMOLs that he refuses to be their stepford hunting b*tch. * fingers crossed *

"If this is the type of character assassination they had in mind for Mary they should have left her in heaven. Where her poor tortured sons at least had good memories/thoughts of her. The hole is dug so deep for her character I can't see any redemption no matter what she does."

THIS! I don't understand why the writers always have to go so far in making characters unlikable. There's no climbing out of that hole afterward.

"Sam has seen nothing but incompetence to down right horrendous behavour from the BMOL's. I didn't understand his decision at all."

One of the reasons this episode is the worst of the season for me. He basically proves that they're full of hot air and he's better at the job than them but THEY're changing the world. Sam, you and Dean stopped the apocalypse 55 times. THAT's changing the world.
I don't believe the BMOL's plan is going to work. At this point, I'm rooting for the monsters to get together and come light the BMOL base of fire lmao.

"He chooses them/her over Dean? "

Sad to say but this is a recurring problem with Sam.

" If Dabb has Dean agree to go along then the entire season will be a bust for me."

Same for me. I really want Dean to stay out of it. For ONCE, tell everybody to suck it and turn your back on them.

"And I think that surprised Mr. Ketch."

It definitely did. I like Ketch so I didn't mind the Dean and Ketch scene. It's just that if Dean's going to be firmly against the BMOLs, I'd rather he continues to keep his distance :).

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