I haven't had a chance to read through very many posts so if there's already
a thread on this please point me to it.
Brenda's Mom had such a scared look on her face when she died. Normally
when people die in their sleep their eyes are closed and their expression
is relaxed.
I can't begin to imagine how that would haunt a person never knowing what
she wanted to tell her.
I assumed that what Willie Rae wanted to tell her daughter was that she was very sick.
Saulisa
Logic is our best defense against The Experts.
Good thought.....perhaps she was able to find out if she talked to
her Mom's doc and he would tell her that was it. Or maybe her Dad knew
too although I doubt that since he had been so ill.
So often I see the spouse of the sick spouse end up getting as sick
or sicker from the stress of caring for the spouse who got ill first.
Take good care of yourselves people.....your illnesses that are
self-induced as most are.....don't only affect you!!!
I always thought Willie Rae wanted to tell Brenda that she was ill. I also thought she looked scared because perhaps she realized that no one else could take care of Clay and the rest of her family as she did - she hated leaving them like that, with no preparation.
English MA: Symbolism/my life. Truth vs the world - Boudicca of the Iceni
Oh wow, what a discerning insight!! That puts a lot of meaning
to the look on her face. I just can't seem to get it out of my head.
Thanks for your comment...helps put some meaning to it.
I wonder how many people have changed their way of putting people off
when asked for time with them...if that made any sense at all. I don't
have family close by but if I did I sure would be more aware of it.
The late Harry Chapin wrote a very haunting song about that feeling: "Cat's In the Cradle." I think that song sums it up perfectly.
The reason I mentioned that she was afraid to leave them unprepared is because I had a somewhat similar experience. I had an almost fatal reaction to a chemo med last year - I could not reach my call bell and when I opened my eyes (yep I passed out) - there were nurses around me and I do not know how they were alerted because I never rang the bell.
I also had a fear that I was leaving things unsaid or undone and I was not ready to do that. I begged God for that chance.
Turns out, yes, I was given that chance. And I make a point of telling my loved ones they are dear to me, and that I appreciate what they do, and I just am more openly expressive. I don't want to die like Willie Rae, feeling alone because I didn't prepare anyone.
English MA: Symbolism/my life. Truth vs the world - Boudicca of the Iceni
Thank you for sharing that ritamilo. It's wonderful you got
a second chance. They are rare especially with critical
illnesses. Congrats on overcoming it. Be well!!
That's not what "Cat's in the Cradle" is about. It's about a guy who never spent any time with his son when the boy was growing up, and now that he's old and retired, and has time, his son doesn't care about him, but the guy doesn't even get it-- he just thinks that his son is like him, and doesn't have time for anyone. We don't really know what his son is doing. He may be ignoring his selfish father in order to spend time with his own children. The father is so self-centered, that never even occurs to him.
shareThe song is reversed in the show in that Brenda is the one who couldn't make time, and her mother's the one who can't ever "get together then" as Chapin says. The regret is on Brenda, as compared to the parent in the song.
The meaning of the song is that we regret not spending time with those who mean so much to us because we always presume there will be time but we do not have that guarantee.
English MA: Symbolism/my life. Truth vs the world - Boudicca of the Iceni
ritamilo, When I saw your original post about the song, I totally got it and agreed. It's all about balancing our professional and personal lives, and realizing that we should not take our loved ones (and the time we have left to spend with them) for granted.
share"Because we do not know when we will die, we get to think of life as an inexhaustible well, and yet everything only happens a certain number of times. Only a very small number, really.
How many more times will you remember a certain afternoon of your childhood? An afternoon that is so deeply a part of your being you can't even conceive of life without it? Perhaps four or five times more. Perhaps not even that.
How many more times will you watch the full moon rise? Perhaps twenty. And yet, it all seems limitless."
-- Brandon Lee, in his last interview
That was my (and my husband's) interpretation as well.
shareThanks! One reason I loved the Closer, which may seem corny, was those "aha!" moments Brenda always had. When she was screaming for Fritz and he carried her out of the room she looked like a little girl looking for her mama.
And the regret she felt about not making time for her mother was reflected in the ending episodes where she made a concerted effort to be more open and approachable.
English MA: Symbolism/my life. Truth vs the world - Boudicca of the Iceni
I agree with delorb. I think it only happened so that Brenda would realize that life outside the office is what matters.
Are you in my dream too?share
I don't think it was anything-- it's a MacGuffin-- a writer's device. The actress who played Brenda's mother, if she is a method actress, probably had something in mind, but aside from that, I don't think that there is an answer.
shareInteresting. I've never heard that word before. I'll have to start watching for those. I guess I take things too literally.
Thanks!!
I've heard MacGuffin before. I just feel that, with the way The Closer has always portrayed Brenda's relationship with each parent, the scene was written broadly enough that each of us can derive whatever meaning we feel fits. So I honestly think that everyone has a point, and that for this kind of thing there is no "wrong answer."
I also think it's a tribute to the writers that such a split-second scene imparted so many different interpretations.
English MA: Symbolism/my life. Truth vs the world - Boudicca of the Iceni
If I were the actress who had to play Brenda's mother in that scene, this is what would be in my head: up until this point in the show, Brenda's mother has nagged her about spending time with her family when they come to visit, and been annoyed (albeit, in a playful way) when Brenda puts her job ahead of her family.
It has always appeared that Mrs. Johnson does not understand how important Brenda's job is, or the weight of it, but I think that really, she did all along, and her "annoyance" was all bluster. It was meant to be teasing that usually missed its mark.
So, when Brenda took time out of her schedule to set up appointments with this doctor, and transport her father and mother to LA, and make room for them in her house for the time they would need to be there, it was a big deal, and what's more, Mrs. Johnson knows that it was a big deal. Based on her past behavior, one could conclude that she doesn't realize the effort Brenda put into getting her father set up with this doctor, but really, her mother does understand.
What would be in my head, as an actress, is that Mrs. Johnson wants to sit Brenda down and say this: yes, I really do know, and have known, how important and demanding your job is-- and I am proud of how you manage it. And I want you to know that I know, so when I tell you I appreciate the trouble you went to, you know that I understand how much trouble it was. And then she would say "Thank you."
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just watched this ep, even knowing it was coming, those last few seconds are heartbreaking -
shareThe actress who played brendas mother is one of the best and longest lasting and most beautiful in the business. I doubt she has ever been out of work. She knew exactly what she was doing. What the director told her.
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I agree; the look on her face had nothing to do with it. I didn't find her face to be one of a person that was scared - death faces run the gamut in "expressions".
I don't think we're SUPPOSED to know what she intended to tell Brenda, or that it was important at all; I think it was just a device to multiply Brenda's grief.
That's what I always got from it too! 100% agreed!
shareinitially I thought her mother probably wanted to tell Brenda that she was ill...but now after reading your post and thinking about it a bit more, it makes sense if she just wanted to tell Brenda to slow down and take a break sometimes basically. Brenda was always so engrossed with her work and constantly working and moving that often she ignored everything else in her life...with a hectic life like that, sometimes she forgot to take a break and slow down.
shareGladyRuth, I'm not sure that's true (re: dying in sleep = peaceful expression on face). For example, people grimace and make all sorts of other faces in their sleep, in response to internal and external stimuli (dreams, noise, light, being prodded).
If Willie Rae had suffered heart failure, she might have woken from the pain, and her face would have shown some expression (surprise, pain, regret, etc.). And heart failure can be instantaneous, literally. Split-second, and you're gone.
I've never been around at a human's moment of death, but I've been with three animals when they died (one of heart failure, two who were euthanized because they were terminally ill). If the eyes are open at the moment of death, they stay open -- they don't wearily flutter shut, as TV and movies want us to think.
I think it was brave and wise of the actress (and presumably producers, writers, director) to let us see that facial expression -- to be reminded that death isn't necessarily peaceful and that certainly its aftermath (the grief of the survivors) is utterly searing.
"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of people."
If Willie Rae had suffered heart failure, she might have woken from the pain, and her face would have shown some expression (surprise, pain, regret, etc.). And heart failure can be instantaneous, literally. Split-second, and you're gone.
I initially thought Willie Ray wanted to tell Brenda about her heart condition, and maybe that Brenda didn't have much time left with her mother. Since then, I've read the popular belief that it was about taking time to smell the roses etc., and so I think that's just as plausible.
As for the look on her face, I assumed she experienced a massive, excruciating, heart attack, and than her expression was one of pain, surprise, and perhaps fear. I also assume the actress has seen such looks on actual people who have died that way, but that might not be true. Perhaps the director told her what facial expression to use.
Thanks for your reply. It's a nice summary of the possibilities.
And I had not thought of the pain, physical and emotional that she would be feeling at the time too.
GladyRuth,
From the beginning of that episode, I thought Willie Ray looked sickly. Like her make-up girl failed her. I mean it took some make-up magic to make Frances Sternhagen look like death warmed over. Gradually, as the episode progressed, I realized the look was intentional. What a great twist. Daddy dying would not be much of a reach considering his recent battle with cancer. But mama dying...shocker. The idea that she had something to tell Brenda Leigh made it that much more intriguing. I doubt anyone knew what Willie Ray was going to say. It wasn't part of the script. But it made for great speculation, still going on 4 years later.
Take a chance, flip a coin, everything is 50/50
I appreciate your reply. It still haunts me. Losing a Mother is hard in any kind of circumstance but so suddenly....ugh. I know it's fiction but those writers are sure good at making their characters and story lines so real.
share