MovieChat Forums > Dalkomhan insaeng (2005) Discussion > heres my take, btw am i just missing som...

heres my take, btw am i just missing something everyone else sees?

posted 17 years ago by Serenit-y
16 replies | jump to latest

Pros of the film - Good lighten, music, sceneary, camera angles, yes all been said, no it does not make a film great.

What i disliked about the film is the characters,
firstly the women wasn't so attractive in my opinion, nor did she seem in the least lovable
secondly, How does a proffesional working for the mafia for six years, and never falling in love with anyone, fall in love with this one under two days. Very very unlikely.

thirdly, how does he make so many mistakes,
- Get's stabbed by the guy in the ice ring, any one of he's status knows once he was going for a weapon
- get's beaten up by 3 guys, who somehow manged to get into he's apartment without he's keen senses detecting their presensce though it was eerily quiet.
- For all he's talk, and show at the first half of the movie when he was boss, he's vengeance is simply the opposite, he shakes, makes silly mistakes, un-calculating in he's plans. Which in shorts makes the revenge sequences half-assed, and un satisfying. The guys who put him through hell, only suffer for about 4 seconds, then rest in peace. Vengeance in the Punisher, was far better, in the God father 10 times as good.

Personally i loved the feel of the film, crisp and smooth in every sense of the word, but that alone does not make a good revenge film, yes he suffered, but he's enemies didn't...and he still died -_-

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Dragon_Eye_Morrison 17 years ago

I think the escape escene worked, and added even more tension. Yes, the guy fights a dozen of guys with two broken fingers (it wasn't the whole hand) and after being buried alive. After Kang gets informed of this the guy is almost dying of the fear of knowing that they have awaken Sun Woo.

I think the movie did an interesting thing with showing Sun Woo vulnerable and then too strong, both in moments you least expected. When he goes to ask Baek why he did harm to him, he sincerily wanted to know the reason. The character would let his guard down in moments when he is truly thinking in other things, and yet he will still arise when the situation is needed. I found that more refreshing than the usual approach of having the main guy invincible all the time in the usual action flicks.

"I believe the common character of the universe is not harmony, but hostility, chaos and murder."

[–] rizz_0 17 years ago

completely gotta agree with oldboy99 on that one Serenit-y...and yeah, the punisher??? whats that all about?

[–] leapoffaith_urkle 17 years ago

Oh man, FACT, i totally agree with everything you just said brother! :)

[–] keith_g 17 years ago

You're not missing anything - I agree with just about everything you said. What I want to know is where were the people? - At the end of the movie the gangsters seemed to have the whole town to themselves!

A good movie with great music let down by a sloppy ending IMO....

[–] incady-1 17 years ago

<spoilers>
Here are my main problems with the movie:
1) How is seeing that one girl an epiphany of anything? We're to believe that this girl, with her friendly gaze, is what causes him to disobey the order of his gangster boss - what's his motivation?
2) The idea of revenge on your gangster boss seems absurd.. when you join a gangster organization, everyone's motivation should be pretty black and white. Everyone should know instinctively that disobeying an order against your mob boss has serious repercussions. His questioning of the boss seems more akin to a whiny disgruntled employee than a now ex-gangster ("why did you do that to me?? why??").

Also, I never really bought any of the characters as real gangsters - they just didn't seem tough enough. They don't have the presence of a Chow-Yun Fat.

[–] tdano 17 years ago

I'll try to answer your questions with my own interpretations. I believe that he is very lonely, as represented by him sitting on his couch all night drinking beers. He's not a very social guy, in fact he only sees himself as a "cool" guy, as is shown at the very end and by the other gangster who tells him something along the lines of "You thought you were cool huh?" and proceeds to do the boxing motion. Rewinding a bit, the conversations with the boss show him very out of touch with the conversation, he's not really paying attention and he isn't an important part of it. He can be replaced by any character and the boss would have the same conversation. I think he realises that indeed there is not much to himself as a person, he's lonely, and very one dimensional seeking to take out his anger and self-pity on low life gangster henchmen at the beginning of the film and in the middle when he chases down those drunk punks.
In regard to your second question the answer is more simple, in his mind he didn't disobey his boss. But then again he also didn't know his boss would set him up or betray him. And indeed he almost seems childish asking "why did you do that to me?", but he feels betrayed and mad at himself for being used and taken advantage of. Instead he should have been asking "why did I let this happen to myself?" but hes already past the no point of return since he is almost killed several times.

[–] Dragon_Eye_Morrison 17 years ago

1) How is seeing that one girl an epiphany of anything? We're to believe that this girl, with her friendly gaze, is what causes him to disobey the order of his gangster boss - what's his motivation?
2) The idea of revenge on your gangster boss seems absurd.. when you join a gangster organization, everyone's motivation should be pretty black and white. Everyone should know instinctively that disobeying an order against your mob boss has serious repercussions. His questioning of the boss seems more akin to a whiny disgruntled employee than a now ex-gangster ("why did you do that to me?? why??").

1) You see, the very simplicity of the gir'ls life is what struck so different to Sun Woo, he so used to deal with gangsters and nothing more. Here he meets a young lady that has so much hunger for life, while Sun Woo lacks any type of energy or joy for life. Even Kang himself tells him "she's not like us".

2) That's exactly the point the movie makes, that because Sun Woo breaks out the typicall silent and cold as-a-stone gangster persona, the whole system breaks. He simply can't see things in this black or white angle, he might have acted just by orders most of his time serving Kang, but when he makes a decision of his own about something, that's when he starts to see things different. The girl didn't derserve to die, he knows it, and Kang knows it, it's just that this communication/rank/macho regime that they are following just makes Sun Woo collide with everything once he realizes that he's not a dog that follows orders blindly, but an individual with his own way of thinking.

Lee Byung Hung might not be Chow Yun Fat, but the man has a very different, and unique, persona that i think fits the character very well. CYF was more fit to play the cool-as-hell-badass, the thing is, A Bittersweet Life, while being a gangster related film, is not an all-action fest like Hard Boiled. You could say is a bit closer in spirit to The Killer, where CYF's character also takes a wild decision (helping the girl) and fights for it.

"I believe the common character of the universe is not harmony, but hostility, chaos and murder."

[–] foton 17 years ago

I have read your posts and think some were right about the motivation of the protagonist and the "escaping " scene .I have watched the Indian remake of this movie "Awarapan" and BELIEVE ME It is is fantastic . The main charcter in the Indian remake is given a justfied reason for not killing the girl ,More over in the famous "escape " scene his hand is not smashed so he is much more able to continue the fight and escape reasonably enough . I loved the Indian movie very much it has a spiritual vision & Love story sub-plot which only contributes to its beauty & depth . I strongly recommend watching it .

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1020937/

[–] vaibhavrocks 17 years ago

I'm from India and I must say that the Indian remake was pretty *beep* with bad actors.

[–] Errand 17 years ago

1. firstly the women wasn't so attractive in my opinion...

- Oldboy99 put it best "matter of opinion". As an oriental, I can tell you that a lot of oriental guys will call her a "9" or a "10".

2.fall in love with this one under two days. Very very unlikely....

- You are right. It is very illogical. But love/passion usually is :-). (How many lowlives have killed their wives because of love?)

4. Get's stabbed by the guy in the ice ring...

- I agree. For him to get hurt, they should put in a couple more fighters.

5. 3 guys managed to get into he's apartment without he's keen senses detecting their presence though it was eerily quiet...

- Agree 100%.

6. For all he's talk, and show at the first half of the movie when he was boss, he's vengeance is simply the opposite, he shakes, makes silly mistakes...

- Totally understandable. At first, he was in a "comfort zone" with a whole gang backing him up. Later, he was wounded, alone, and hunted by everyone. Not many persons can stay calm in that scenerio.

[–] laguna_clara 17 years ago

I think you guys are missing a really MAJOR point of the change in the lead character and in the whole film, actually.

Remember the intro with the willow tree? Allow me to quote:

>> One fine spring day a disciple looked at some branches blowing in the wind.
>> He asked his master,
>> "Master, are the branches moving or is it the wind?"
>> Not even glancing to where his pupil was pointing the master smiled and said,
>> "That which moves is neither the branches nor the wind...
>> "It is your heart and mind."

This wasn't put there to make the film more deep or look pretty. The whole point of the movie was that Sun-woo was this cold, unfeeling, reliable minion of his mob boss Mr. Kang, who even tells him early in the film that he trusts him so much because he is unchanging and cannot be swayed by something like a girlfriend.

I am with those who believe that Sun-woo never was "in love" with the girl. The change that took place within him was just that, within him. It was probably a long time coming (imagine doing what he did, "working like a dog," as he said, for his boss for seven years!) at the girl was merely a catalyst for this change in Sun-woo. He merely woke up one day, and this change manifested itself into what Mr. Kang saw as a grave mistake on Sun-woo's part, which was have a small moment of pity for the girl and lie to his boss.

Remember that scene where he watched her play her cello? There was this brief shot of the swaying willow tree, cut abruptly by a call to Sun-woo's phone. Could it be any clearer?

There is even more proof, in the end, of what was going on. There is an exchange between a disheveled, bloody Sun-woo and a calm Mr. Kang, where Kang plainly tells Sun-woo his reasons for punishing him (he didn't follow orders) and asks him what has gotten into him.

>> Mr. Kang: Do you really want to take this too far?
>> Sun-woo: [Ignores his question, rebukes]
>> Why would you do this to me, Mr. Kang?
>> Mr. Kang: Because you did not follow my orders.
>> Sun-woo: No, none of that stuff. Tell me the real reason why.
>> Were you really trying to kill me? Do you know how long I have
>> worked for you? Like a dog, I have served you for 7 years!
>> Why? Tell me anything. Anything. Tell me!
>> [shoots Mr. Kang]
>> Mr. Kang: What has gotten into you? Don't do this, Sun-woo.
>> [there is a shot of Sun-woo looking at his reflection on a glass window]

Any clearer and I think the director would have been spelling it out for you.

[–] ger8822 17 years ago

These are good points. I think when sun-woo saw the girl crying he took a step back and started to think for himself. Questioning why he was about to kill someone who didn't deserve to die at all. And with that shift in his thinking he ceased to become a mindless dog.

[–] Dragon_Eye_Morrison 17 years ago

What the last two users said, that's one of the reasons i love this film, it actually cares about exploring the characters. Sun Woo could have been another random generic action tough guy, and yet he has an actual personality.

And it goes without saying that this film is very much in the same mood as Jean Pierre Melville's Le Samourai. If you have seen that one, Sun Woo's character will become even more clear.

"I believe the common character of the universe is not harmony, but hostility, chaos and murder."

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] kountxero 16 years ago

Well, beside my corny final analysis at the bottom, here's how it goes.

It is debatable at best whether Sunwoo actually fell in love or only felt some sort of a connection. I mean, the guy is cut-off from everyday life; perhaps, has been for the last seven years. It's, actually, unimportant whether it is actual love or not. The movie makes it seem like she is the only person he has met outside of his "work", so, to say the least, it is "interest".

As for his revenge being not-so-calculated... true, that. He has a general idea about how he wants to go at it, but doesn't really make a very complex and detailed plan.

Now we come to the corny final analysis.

The burial scene: it's like the guy is dead, and is reborn into a new person; changed by all he has seen and experienced. One thing he DID realize, even if this type of symbolism doesn't really appeal to you, is that being the calculating type can lead to him doing a hundred things right, but a single mistake can take it all away. Thus, Sunwoo as we knew him in the beginning (the collected mafioso) changes into a not-so collecting revenge machine who is simply going to attain his goal, no matter WHAT stands in his way. He resolves to just get what he wants.

Take a close look at him as he goes at it. Especially in the end: "I have nowhere else to go.". He knows he won't make it out of this alive, thus, he resolves to just kill them, instead of exact revenge the long and painful way.

My take, anyway.