The book is really quite traditional in annoying ways, whereas the film, because it is film noir, is not. The film combines Lena and a Jewish woman named Renate who is in the book and drops the child that is Renate's motive for working for the Nazis as she did. It seems to me that Lena is a good German in the book. Anyone agree with this?
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Well I don't think She would agree.
She was trying to atone for her past
Although she only did what she did to survive,
she did tell the Gestapo about 12 Jewish people, just to save her own skin.
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In the book a Jewish character named Renata is the one who led the Gestapo to the hidden Jews in Berlin. Lena was taking care of Renata's child in the book..and is a good German.
shareYou guys obviously have no frickin' idea what the phrase "good German" meant in the late 40s. It meant a hypocrite who claimed innocence, even though they probably voted for, supported and cheered Hitler.
It originated in a NY Times article:
"It is a saying among our troops that there are no real Nazis in Germany, only 'good Germans.' Every crime Germany committed against humanity seems to have been done by someone else."
Daniell, Raymond, “At Our Knees — Or at Our Throats”, New York Times, May 27, 1945.
Aka-Ed. You must be right. Clooney's character evidently believed what you just reported. In meeting Tully he seemed to feel that there were no 'good' Germans that deserved to be extricated from the aftermath of war.
But I missed a plot point while I watched it-- Clooney is Jacob Geismer. Is that a Jewish name? Sounds a bit Jewish to me, not that there's anything wrong with that. I mean he might have been more willing to use the words 'good german' in the same sense you just described.
I miss Big Band music and talented singers. Leonard Cohen in my idol. Civility, harmony, unity!
I think that not only was Jake Jewish, based on his name, but Bernie Teitel (the prosecutor) was Jewish as well.
I asked the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.
Agreed. In retrospect it is obvious, isn'it? I should have read the book and then I'd have the nuances recognizable.
I miss Big Band music and talented singers. Leonard Cohen is my idol. Civility, harmony, unity!
aka-Ed, you are quite correct.
To amplify one must go back to the world of the time and the proper context. In 1945 the world had just gone through one of the most horrific periods in history. In addition the Germans had been engaging in wars of conquest for nearly a century. Almost an entire generation of young men had been lost in WWI. The world was sick to death of German/Prussian militarism. Many of the allies were demanding that Germany be completely dismantled as an industrial nation and made permanently into an agrarian nation, denied any standing Army, etc. Fortunately this idea did not prevail.
The Allies were sick to death of the Germans. The "disappearance" of the Nazis and such excuses as "I was only following orders" only enraged the allies. But that sort of cowardice is typical of bullies so in hindsight it should have been expected.
By the end of the war all Germans may not have been Nazis, but there certainly were no more active anti-Nazis because those had all been murdered. The atrocities the the Nazis became infamous for were committed out of sight of the world. They were so hideous that no one wanted to believe the evidence of them until the camps themselves were discovered. While Hitler was winning he was wildly popular to the vast majority of Germans. He only became unpopular when he started to lose.
I pray to god that I never have to make the choices that the truly decent
Germans had to make under that evil leadership. You don't know what you would do until you are actually sitting in front of a Gestapo psychopath.
"The radiation will kill it. It's enough to kill 100 men!" - Col. Spalding
@ Petroglyph: you write that it is important to "go back to the world of the time and the proper context" but then fail to do so.
1. The Germans had NOT been engaging in wars of conquest for nearly a century. Before WW1, the last major war was 1870/71 which was a short, calculated war with the aim of founding Germany in the first place. The German side won, Germany was founded (i.e. Prussia, Bavaria, Palatina and all the other states united) and what followed was the longest period of peace that Europe had ever had before.
2. You are clearly of the opinion that Germany caused WW1. But among historians, WW1 is regarded as a result of a complex system of pacts of alliances where a minor conflict (the Serbian-Austrian war) triggered a worldwide war without anyone willing to hit the brakes. Equivalent of those computer systems with automatic sell-options that can cause stock exchange breakdowns. One could ponder enlessly about WW1 (the Germans would have never entered it if the UK had made their position clear beforehand - and when they did, it was too late). Understandably, the Allied opinion is that WW1 had the best possible outcome. But this is wrong. The outcome should have in some way reflected Germany's position as the most powerful European player.
3. "The Allies were sick to death of the Germans". Hold on a moment: the Allies, who were they? The USA, the UK, France and the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union, which was ruled by Joseph Stalin and which was an ally of Nazi Germany until 1941. It should be noted at this point that when Germany invaded the SU, Joseph Stalin had already killed more Soviets than Hitler ever would. It should also be noted that at the end of the first phase of WW2, when Hitler and Stalin were best friends, the same amount of countries were invaded by Nazis as were by Soviets. And in May 1945, the same amount of countries were reclaimed by democracy as were invaded by the Red Army. Many Westerners somehow have a soft spot for Communism in their heart of hearts, as oppossed to Nazism. I can not understand this line of thinking. Both ideologies have similar features: a system of camps for undesirables; genocide; no freedom of thought; no free elections etc. But at least Nazism only lasted 12 years, whereas Communism is still prevalent
4. "The "disappearance" of the Nazis and such excuses as "I was only following orders" only enraged the allies." Unless you are Wernher von Braun or aonother top scientist in which case all war criminal records are closed and you are free to make a career in the Nasa.
5. You contradict yourself: you are annoyed at the passivity or cowardice of every not Anti-Hitler German but then concede that "The atrocities the the Nazis became infamous for were committed out of sight of the world. They were so hideous that no one wanted to believe the evidence of them until the camps themselves were discovered." If this is your excuse for Allied passivity in re, the Holocaust, you must excuse the Germans as well. The vast majority of Holocaust victims, prior to their deportation to concentration camps, were either unaware of the fate that awaited them, or were in disbelief of the information that they had received; they honestly believed that they were to be resettled. And so did the rest of Germany.
6. "While Hitler was winning he was wildly popular to the vast majority of Germans. He only became unpopular when he started to lose." -- The same as with every other country, I would say, for example the USA. Only that in this case, Hitler won over France with ease and little bloodshed and in little time (5 weeks!!! as oppossed to the 4 long years of WW1). He was vastly popular then, indeed. It was different when the attack on the SU was announced. Nobody cheered in the streets of Berlin. Everybody knew, now its curtains.
7. Let me make something absolutely clear: I am not a Nazi. My family lost everything they had in WW2. My Grandfather had to flee to (unconquered) France in 1939 or he would have been deported to a concentration camp. I am an ordinary German who needs no lecturing about WW2 by people who know history from Hollywood.