Watched them back to back yesterday and it isn't even close. War Zone sucked so friggin' bad, the real punishment was trying to watch it all the way through. Had Jane not been a prick and come back for the sequel, I think this series could have taken off. It's a shame it got left with the Punisher starting on his mission and we never got to see it really get into it with Jane as Castle.
shareRay was by far and more believable punisher.
shareI liked the Jane version, but that definitely doesn't mean it was faithful to the Punisher's essence, I guess this movie was more like in the comics.
now this is acting: http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2458172160/tt1528718
ravenmaniac07: "Had Jane not been a prick and come back for the sequel, I think this series could have taken off."
Jane didn't believe in this movie, and I can see why. The even-more-comic-y style would not have suited him. There was nothing he could have contributed to it that Ray Stevenson didn't do as well or better.
I still think Thomas Jane is the best Punisher ever, but he made the right decision by sitting this one out.
Not to take anything away from Stevenson, he was good, but this was a silly movie. I'm glad Tom Jane wasn't in this because it would have killed all chances of him being Punisher again.
"Why do you say this to me when you know I will kill you for it?"
This film damn near killed anyone`s chances of playing the punisher again,
even though marvel got the rights back they still aren`t planning anything punisher related anytime soon.
This films complete flop has probably put alot of doubt in their mind,
and before anyone says anything about which is better i mean from a purely box office return standpoint,
since 04 punisher got a good following on dvd and made back its money and then some extra,
then this film was released and failed to even make back its small budget.
Shiny. Let's be bad guys.
The 2004 Punisher sold on DVD as though it was a 100-150 million dollar movie - it moved like other merchandise in that category, at a time when DVDs were making more money than now. The 2008 Punisher was barely released on DVD, and I have not heard it sold well.
Since the only way known for a Punisher movie, after three attempts, is on DVD, and DVD is not going great guns now, there won't be another Punisher movie till long after Thomas Jane might potentially have been interested in acting in it.
Yeah, i know thats where 04 punisher made most of its money,
i don`t think the 08 punisher even sold well on dvd and wasn`t released as widely possibly because it failed so badly at cinemas,
I love the 04 punisher actually one of my favourite films, not so much the 08 one, people complain that the jane punisher drank and cried,
well i don`t know what people would expect someone to do when they lose everyone they have but that seems a normal reaction,
and it set up well for a sequel,
While i`m still a little annoyed that there wasn`t any sequel, its never gonna happen now,
i think any new punisher film marvel do should start again anyway, new actor, new continuity mostly because making a sequel to a film that was released in 04 when they already tried to start again on 08 could be a little confusing and is highly unlikely, and they`re gonna want to avoid any ties to a panned flop like war zone,
apparently marvel studios may be making a tv series at some point, not sure when.
Will be interesting to see what story and actor marvel use when they get round to making anything else with the punisher.
Shiny. Let's be bad guys.
people complain that the jane punisher drank and cried
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Thomas Jane drank, cried ... and was an ass-kicking monster, pulling off a long and clever plan to inflict punishment, not just slaughter, and not killing the wrong people in the process. He was totally credible all the way through, doing all the different things the Punisher did. That's not "a beefed-up pretty boy". That's an actor, in a role that makes him shine.
I've got no quarrel with Ray Stevenson. He was rock solid. But there just was not that much for him to do, in terms of different emotions. He was bleak all the way through, and not very clever. Such was the script.
I much prefer the movie where we see not only how the Punisher grieved for his son and wife, but how much Frank Castle loved them and his whole family in the first place. It's more interesting that way. There's more light and shade.
I much prefer the movie where the Punisher is pulling off stuff like the fire hydrant gag than the one in which he emphasizes that he doesn't have, want or need any plan beyond "I'm going in to get them."
Yeah, for a former military guy who's been on numerous missions, Stevenson wasn't the best strategist. Walking in and killing everone isn't exactly a sound tactic.
"Why do you say this to me when you know I will kill you for it?"
Yeah stevenson`s punisher wasn`t exactly a master planner, his plans mostly involved two steps,
step 1, walk in room
step 2, shoot people
Shiny. Let's be bad guys.
I loved the 2004 version, I honestly don't understand why there was so much hate for it. I went into the 08 version hoping for the best but the whole film was horrible. I liked Stevenson as an actor and I thought he made a good Punisher but wow the whole movie was just aweful. I would love them to make another Punisher and give it another go.
shareStevenson was the best part of War Zone... but at the same time he seemed totally out of place within it. His dark and brooding Punisher just didn't fit with the campyness and absurdity of the rest of the movie. Both Lundgren's and Jane's versions of the Punisher better fit their respective movies.
Actually I think all the actors that have portrayed the character have done a good job and were in their own ways fun to watch.
Lundgren's was the most comic book like, Jane's the more well rounded and to an extent realistic, and Stevenson's was very comic like but primarily that of how the character has often been portrayed within the MAX comics.
Each one's repsective movies however is a whole other can of worms entirely.
Personally I prefer the 2004 movie the most, can tolerate (and at times enjoy) the 1989 Dolph Lundgren one, and for the most part dislike 2008's War Zone.
"Define 'interesting'"
"Oh god, oh god, we're all gonna die."
- Serenity
Punisher 04 is my favourite of the three, its a really good film overall, some great action and i liked the planning aspect of the killing rather than just mindless shooting and it left a good setup for a sequel,
i found warzone way too campy and really annoying and the costume for the punisher in it annoyed me, he didn`t really look like the punisher partly because of the armour and partly because of the barely visible skull,
i`m not a fan of the 89 punisher at all, too much like just a generic action movie for me.
I`m not sure who i`d like to see play frank castle/punisher next,
i liked jane as the punisher but its unlikely he`ll return,
that plus i think a new actor and a new start would be a better idea anyway.
Shiny. Let's be bad guys.
Marvel simply won't do anything above a PG-13 or 12A - That's why the movie isn't getting made.
shareTotally agree! 1st one rocked, 2nd one was painfully stupid...Duhhh, whoa it's Jigsaw, lol!
sharePUNISHER 2004 had the right idea by wanting to set up Frank Castle so that his downfall would be more dramatic.
It failed because it wasted too much time on made up elements that were added from the comic book. Usually changes are made to cut corners. Here, they made things slower for no reason. Making Castle a fed, having the slaughter of every Castle cousin, aunt and everyone. Castle had a wife, son and daughter. That was it. They also removed the randomly accidental element from the Castle family murders which added to the drama, in my view. The non sensical way he lost everything would start driving Castle to the edge. And for all the time spent building character, none is spent on the transition from grieving family man to vigilante. There was also the supid scene where he shows up at a press conference...To me, that movie had many problems in its plot.
PUNISHER WAR ZONE did away with any attempt at building character and was simply a blood drenched, over the top, caricature. Loud, gory and empty. It was crammed with characters that were not developped. The "action scenes" were absurd. The acting was close to one might see in the 1960's BATMAN with ADAM WEST and worst of all...Castle was a cop killer. That didn't seem to be an issue since everyone forfave him for that. The dead fed's partner and his widow. The dead fed's kid found him nice enough. And Castle forgave himself for killing an honest cop. That is against every incarnation of the character.
There hasn't been a decent Punisher movie made. Maybe the next one will succeed where the previous three have failed. Maybe someone will have the right mix of action, drama, suspense and characterization. It doesn't have to be Shakespeare, but a simple well made and well written crime drama.
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Personal insults have no place in smart discussions.
I liked the addition of his entire family being killed does make it more
of a devastating blow to frank that he has no family left at all, admittedly there are plotholes but overall i can overlook some of the plotholes because i like the film.
As for war zone, that was a mess, they did seem to forgive him fast didn`t they and he didn`t seem to care much himself that he killed a cop, characterization was way off, and there was practically no plot, and jigsaw looked like an evil muppet.
I`ve been trying to picture an actor who could play frank in future films but no one springs to mind.
Shiny. Let's be bad guys.
Is it any wonder he killed a cop? The way he just charged into situations without assessing them first meant it was inevitable.
"Why do you say this to me when you know I will kill you for it?"
Is it any wonder he killed a cop? The way he just charged into situations without assessing them first meant it was inevitable.
I read about those comments that the director made about not wanting to make a film that would cause teens to shoot people.
There's a way to do that: craft a good story and solid characters.
About Punisher running in, there was no excuse: he had Microchip with him, someone who would have gone through databases to confirm identities...Except the movie makers forgot that Microchip was a hacker and I don't remember seeing him any where near a computer.
Punisher War Zone was a miserable failure, in my view. So was Punisher 2004. Hard to believe BLADE, a lesser known character than the Punisher had a more succesful move career and a TV series, no matter how short lived.
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Personal insults have no place in smart discussions.
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I actually like Thomas Jane, but I sometimes think that the better Punisher movie would be if Ray Stevenson had starred in the 2004 version. The 2004 movie was much better overall, but I think Stevenson plays the Punisher slightly better than Jane.
sharePunisher 2004 is a serious insult to the source material. If you don't get the main character and his world right then you're just left with a standard action flick and that's all the 2004 movie is.
Punisher War Zone is a faithful adaptation and an action flick that doesn't take itself seriously. I don't know about you but in my world 2 points is more than 1 so Punisher War Zone wins.
But Punisher is a character that should be taken seriously. He's the most realistic out of all comic book heros. Warzone loses
shareYeah you're right! War Zone loses to the movie with a harmless looking prettyboy Punisher giving corny oneliners in Tampa location. Yay serious! Let's just completely disregard the source material and label The Punisher a realistic... hero from here on out then. No I've never heard of Nick Fury before, does he fly?
shareHow did Warzone stick closer to the source material when they got guys flipping off of roofs like spider-man(For absolutely no reason, might I add), the Punisher swinging from a chandelier like Jackie Chan and him showing absolutely no skill when it comes to tactical proceedure?
What did they get right? The one scene where his family was killed that wasn't even really a scene, just a flashback? And talk about corny onelineners: "Don't Die on me kid!" "I see you anywhere near Hell, I'll kick your ass out!"
It's called freerunning (a street stunt activity if I may add). Just an extension of daredevil Magintys ability after a Kitchen Irish issue where he got himself on top of a running Huey Chopper. You seem to have missed that issue like you missed Franks "tactical proceedure" later in War Zone. It's funny you criticize War Zone in that given the fact that Punisher from the 2004 movie got himself shot four times in his raid compared to War Zone's one shot in the back. Some skill Hensleigh. And what can I say about that flashback part? Maybe that the scene alone gave the character more justice than the whole lackluster film from 2004 ever did.
What War Zone got right beside the things I mentioned? The location, the black humour, the religious reference, the villain's personality (I'm looking at you Russian!), Linus the helper, the violence, the gore, the look of the movie and Ray Stevenson ofcourse. Oneliners or not, nothing sounds ashamedly grin worthy coming from his mouth in that role. Jane on the other hand...
Well, my humble opinion is that both movies failed, like I stated above.
The following is opinion. I'm passionate, but I am not arrogant enough to believe I hold the ultimate truth about how to do a Punisher movie.
Neither respected the source material.
PUNISHER 2004 had Castle acting like a trickster-fake fire hydrant and all that crap. And the absurdity of the Castle family massacre (too many family members and too long, it took away from the horror...and the wife and kid's death scene was stolen from MAD MAX) and the sheer idiocy of those hitmen. And it has magical assassins: how the hell did Harry Heck and The Russian find Castle? And the stupid fiery skull at the end...AND the change of origin and character background...
PUNISHER WAR ZONE took superficial elements from the comics-violence and "black humour" (more like slapstick)-and crammed characters into the story and mangled all of them. MICROCHIP is a HACKER hence his nickname. He's more of a gundealer than anything. JIGSAW with his Tim Burton-Joker-rip-off origin. That stupid character, Loony Bin Jim...Just...gratuitous. And the most unforgivable insult of all, Punisher being a cop-killer...and getting away with it. Forgiven by the cop's widow and the cop's partner.
There is a way to be entertaining and action packed without going for the easy stuff: mindless gore and violence and over the top acting. Notice I said nothing about realism, I can suspend disbelief, but not intelligence. Tightly written script, some drama, some suspense, some gunfights to showcase Castle's tactical savvy and ruthlessness...
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Personal insults have no place in smart discussions.
There is a difference between arguing over which one is the ultimate Punisher flick and which one is most truthful to the source material. I remember myself doing the later. Other than that I agree with your opinion about both failing.
No, I actually have that issue. Magnity was just some big, bad Black-Irish *beep* he wasn't bouncing off the walls like a super-ball. And even if he had, it still looked dumb as hell on screen. One of the best things About The 2004 Punisher was how the actor humanized the character. He wasn't some Terminator rip-off like Stevenson, indestructible and what not.
All the best hero's get thier ass kicked at one point or another, because thats real life. Makes them more relatable and thats a good thing, for me anyway, becasue the Punisher is suppossed to take place in the real world. They screwed up Microchip, he wasn't anywhere near a computer. And if they was gonna use Micro, than they shouldn't have had Martin Soap in the film too.
They gave the Character Justice? Warzone turned Frank into some big, dumb Robot with alot of guns. Anyone who knows the character knows that the Punisher is more deep than that. He's tactical, meticulous, calculating, and percise. I didn't see none of that in Warzone, just gunfight after gunfight. Thats cool if you don't care about the characters, go rent a Jason Statham movie or something.
Punisher 04' had it's problems too. The origin sucked, killing his extended family too was stupid. but I think it's the better film. They took the caracter seriously. He set the saints up, made them destroy themselves and then killed them. And he didn't kill no innocent cops, cause he planned it out. And the suit from Warzone looked like *beep* Well, maybe not *beep* but not as cool as the skull T-shirt and Jacket form the 04 film
Better film does not equal the better adaptation though. We can argue all week and we will still stand with our opinions on this subject no matter what. I'll just leave it with that since i've given my point of view and you have clearly given yours.
shareOkay. sorry, I get passionate.
shareYou kidding me? It's been real fun so no need for the sorry feelings. Thanks for sharing the time is more like it. I'm thanking you, how about that?
shareI personally think that Ray Stevenson was a great Punisher. Big Frank is a psychopath who fell in love with war and violence in 'Nam. The death of his family was simply the excuse Frank needed to begin killing a crap-load of people.
Sure, Frank goes out of his way to avoid killing cops and civvies, but accidents happen. As well, at the end of the day, Punisher's plans rarely expand much beyond 1)Load up a bunch of guns, 2)Blow some criminal scum to hell. That's really all you need, and Punisher Warzone satisfied that criteria nicely.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, the 08 film sucked hairy donkey toes but that suit DID NOT SUCK. In fact, Stevenson in that full body armor was one of the only saving graces of the film. He looked straight-up legit in that armor and the faded skull made it seem like that suit had been through an actual war zone.
But yeah Warzone just sucked. I also loved Jane's t-shirt and leather jacket. Outfit wise, both films had some badass costumes. I'm not going to knock either for that.
Source material aside...the 04 Punisher is a trillions times better movie in general.
War Zone had TV movie quality acting, script, directing, choreography, and visuals. It was just CHEAP CRAP!!!
"God doesn't make the world the way it is...We Do"-Rorschach.
[deleted]
It's all about the masses and they say Punisher (2004) is better. Why? Look at the gross numbers...
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