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The ending ruined an almost perfectly realistic story

posted 15 years ago by Man-In-Black08
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Honestly, even though I enjoy this film from time to time (especially Reynolds and Marquette's exchanges), I can't help but feel that the ending was what prevented a typical cliche romcom from being a very well written realistic relationship tale.

They got so many things right and accurate:

the friend zone; once you 're in there it's almost impossible to get out. The film was brilliant in turning the tables in the dynamic of the relationship by having the once desirable Jamie be nothing more than a dime-a-dozen pretty girl and have Chris as the ex-loser who's now attractive, highly successful, wealthy and in the lime-light.

Ask any relationship expert and they will tell you that in the overwhelming majority of cases, women are far more attracted to a man with social status and power than a good looking “no-body”. Chris being attractive was what gave him an extra edge over so many other guys in his circle.

This is how Chris was now in a position to get out of the friend zone, but only his own insecurities could blow it, which they do in many occasions; yet another great point made by the film. Psychology shows us how when we go back to settings in which we were/are different to other (also familiar) settings, we end up picking up where we left off as if nothing had transpired in the meantime. I see it with myself all the time; whenever I go back to my home town and see all of my old class-mates (and the girls especially), I tend to resemble the guy I was back in high-school more than the guy I am now (for better or for worse).

Chris displays the same exact behaviour because he has history with Jamie, his friends, the town and everything linked to it. It’s a lot harder to change people’s perception of you once they have known you as someone. I know all too well.

If you set aside the slapstick and comedic elements of the film, this could have been a very serious story, had it not been for the end that is.

Whether we like to admit it or not, most relationships function on a balanced dynamic between the two; one being the domineering and the other the subservient (both genders taking up either role). It is human nature to be this way and there’s nothing wrong in admitting it.

Given Jamie’s social status compared to Chris’, Chris would have been the domineering one, just like with all of his previous conquests. However, his “old” self ruined his chances and Jamie saw him as she saw him before. There really was no future after that point. The relationship had reverted back to what it was, and being human nature to disregard and de-value what we take for granted, Jamie (understandably) rejected him. Again, a very accurate portrayal or how real relationships function.

Even further, the argument scene where Chris makes a total mockery of Jamie’s existence and past glory is perfect. I can’t count the times I and my best friends have to completely demolish a girl we once had feelings for in order to take her off the pedestal and realise that she is not the best thing in the world. I have helped many female friends of mine do the same exact thing with their ex’s or hopefuls that rejected them.

The film should have ended there, where the two just had it out and Chris could finally move on in his emotional life and start being less of a vindictive and emotionally shallow womanizer out of regressed fear and hatred of being the Chris of the past (thanks to Jamie, although it could have been anyone).

I know most people will ask does Jamie deserve this, and I would have to say, no, but it is a necessary evil in order for Chris to move on. She has had her day in the relationship lime-light and made her decision and choices of her own accord, now its’ Chris’ turn to be finally rid of her effect on him.

People don’t seem to realise that while staying friends with an ex is possible, it’s extremely rare and very difficult to be truly honest, as resentment and jealousy looms everywhere. I can speak form personal experience that of the most important relationships I’ve had and tried to keep a friendship after it ended just didn’t work, sometimes because of my feelings and insecurities, and other times because of the girl’s. Coincidently, the times I got dumped I was the one who couldn’t be her friend, and the times I dumped the girl, she was the one who couldn’t be my friend, further illustrating my point about casting out demons. I don’t resent those girls for the mean and maybe even unfair things they said about me because I’ve been there as well, and in order to get over a person, do anything it takes because that’s definitely a time in your life you NEED to be selfish and inconsiderate of others because otherwise you will be torn up inside and stuck in the past. Like I said; it’s a necessary evil.

Had the film ended with Chris leaving after he called her out for her behaviour in high-school it would have been and honest, genuine and BALLSY ending.

[–] tocaretoo 15 years ago

Man-In-Black08, that was perfect.

Heaven forbid that the new and improved Chris would have come back to town, swept the former "reigning clique queen" off her feet, spent a night or two at the local motel making up for past wrongs, then as he's taking off for Paris with (Good Grief!) Anna Faris' character, he throws Jamie's phone number, which she gave to him as he was walking out the motel room door, in an airport trash can, in effect finally throwing away his former miserable life.

Oh No, a possibly GREAT relationship flick has to revert to Hollywood type, with the male reverting to his old WUSSY self.

AND, you are sooooooo right. You don't ever become friends again.........EVER!

The film should have indeed ended right after Chris gave Jamie the "what for."

[–] Man-In-Black08 15 years ago

That's a few years and several relationships of experience talking in my post, and I can tell you what prompted it. A German ex of mine had her birthday yesterday.

We went out for the better part of 6 months and when I finally broke it off (we were just too different) she was really hurt and felt rejected. Subsequently she has resented me and never accepted my gestures as a friend. Yesterday I called her to wish her happy birthday and she didn't even say thank you, she was like "I'm busy right now, I'll call you later" and just hung up on me (she didn't call back, but I didn't expect her too anyway).

We hadn't spoken in over two months (last time was via e-mail) and I thought that she would at least appreciate that I remembered her. It's a real shame, because she really is a great girl and I do care about her, but in the end I can't fault her for doing what needs to be done and what I've done myself a few times.

Speaking about Chris, your scenario is actually far more likely than what happened in the end of this film. It all depends on the person and their experiences. In Chris' case, I honestly believe that his insecurities would resurface just as fast and strong as they did in the film due to his high-school past.

Back in high-school I was never popular, nor was I a target of bullying and/or torment like Chris, and so were my closest friends. One of them managed to have a fling with a former class-mate of ours that was one of the hot girls all those years ago. Because my friend hadn't really been noticed back then, he just saw it as another conquest and the girl never knew him in the past, so for what it was, he got the better part of the experience.

But not everyone is as calm and collected about themselves and their past as my friend. Personally, I was overweight all through my teenage years (not excessively, but at least 30-40 pounds, which I carried fairly well due to my body-type). As a result I was always a bit shy with the girls and never felt comfortable till university when I lost about 50 pounds and felt safe enough in my appearance that my personality would be enough, hence I never tried too hard for a girl nor did I overcompensate because I felt I wasn't conventionally attractive enough.

All these little things have the ability to change a person's behaviour around certain type of people at any given moment. An honest depiction of it would be nice, juts for a change, whether the previously scorned gets their revenge, or they simply act out in verbal anger and finally put it behind them.

[–] tocaretoo 15 years ago

"In Chris' case, I honestly believe that his insecurities would resurface just as fast and strong as they did in the film due to his high-school past."
===============================================================================

Couldn't agree more!

There's one entity that you can never re-invent yourself to, and that's your past. You would like to think that you won't revert to type (fawning wussy,) but once you meet people from your past, their old memories of you lock in, and that's what you become again in their eyes,....the old you.

And with that tinge of your ancient insecurity that never, ever, really went away, you adapt to their mental image of the old you in order to sub-consciously fit it to that old mental picture, and indeed become the old you all over again.

I recently was contacted by an old "girlfriend" who tossed me into the emotional dumper many years ago. Since I travel about a multi-state area in my job, it was no trouble to just show up on her doorstep, unannounced, just to say HI. I was her Emotional Whore for about a year while her on-again, off-again pos boyfriend decided whether or not he was going to marry her. When he finally said NO, she married the next guy down the list (not me of course.)

Seems that she had recently gotten divorced after 25 years and two kids, and decided to re-connect to her old doormat (me) through our alumni assoc. Didn't go well. I was no longer that insecure, immature, puny wuss that she had strung along ages ago. Also, the new me was obviously intimidating as hell. This b!t$h tried every trick in the book to get me to revert to type, or at least the old type that she used to totally control. Wasn't going to happen! She went so far as to say flat out: "What happened to you. I don't like what you've become, I miss the old you." When we parted company that day, she gave me her phone number, which I threw away in a restaurant trash can that evening. At that instant, I finally buried the old me forever! No looking back ever again. No regrets!

As the saying goes :"You can't go home again"....True True True.

And trust me, YOU DON"T WANT TO!

[–] Man-In-Black08 15 years ago

I know exactly how you feel. I've recently run into two of my ex-girlfriends, with whom I had very short, meaningless relationships with. After about 2 and 3 years of having seen each of them, they were all friendly and playing cute etc.

I was completely apathetic towards them and even though they gave me their number and insisted we meet up for a drink/coffee/meal, I haven't bothered with either of them. Those 5 minutes I spent with them when we ran into each other was (astonishingly enough) all I needed to see that they were the EXACT same person they were 2-3 years ago.

So I thought to myself "why bother?". If we couldn't have anything back then, what's the point now? Friendship? Hardly. Between e-mails, facebook, skype and all the other ways of keeping in contact with people, I chose none of them, neither did I ever care to find them through other common friends/acquaintances.

People try too hard to force friendships because they somehow feel it will lessen the degree of failure the romantic relationship had. Not worth it in about 99,99% of the times.

[–] ramfrommaine 15 years ago

(People try too hard to force friendships because they somehow feel it will lessen the degree
of failure the romantic relationship had. Not worth it in about 99,99% of the times)

Wow, it's funny how time dulls reality

And NO it doesn't heal all wounds.

It's amazing that we, as human beings, feel guilty that a doomed, looking back on it,
relationship didn't work, even though WE were the one putting the 99.99999999999%
into it to try to make it work. Like if we had only put that final .00000000001% in, as
well (if that were at all possible) somehow the past would have been re-written.

Just 2-3 years?
toocaretoo's 25 must have really sucked!

Do or do not! There is no try!

[–] ramfrommaine 15 years ago

(Seems that she had recently gotten divorced after 25 years and two kids, and decided
to re-connect to her old doormat (me) through our alumni assoc)

I can imagine how sour on the world you can get when she hasen't changed in 25 years,
AND maybe subconciously, maybe not, she feels so little about you, or her memory
of you, that she feels confident and contemptious enough to initiate contact
AND expect you to fall right back into place, after such a long time period!

25years, that's bad

And worse then 2-3.

And sad.

Do or do not! There is no try!

[–] prettyface 15 years ago

In the real world, many relationships are not equal. In this case, Chris really wants Jamie. Jamie is a woman that Chris always wants all his life. Jamie didn’t really like Chris. She is only at the receiving end, meaning her choice will be to accept or reject him. That’s all.

If Chris would have appeared acting like a rich, successful and handsome man, Jamie wouldn’t even want to talk to him. He has to get back to where he was and use his sincerity, persistence, and guts to get the girl he really wants. What’s on Jamie’s mind is not if she really loves him. She only thinks if Chris loves him enough so that she can give him a chance and accept him.

Yes, love isn’t fair. But that’s love. It’s unconditional. Of course, people would like to see Chris acting superiorly and eventually dump Jamie. But, that’s not what Chris wants.

See, Chris like Jamie when they were in college. Chris still like Jamie when he was with other girls. And now when they meet again, Jamie is still the kind of girl Chris wants.

I mean, this is going to be a one last chance for him to go all out for the girl he really wanted all the while. What is the point for him to try to seek revenge and prove Jamie’s wrong? He will then goes back and marry other woman but he’s not going to be a happy man. Sure, Jamie and Chris relationship may not last long, but who can predict the future.

I actually admire his courage to follow his heart and take this last chance to get what he really wants. Never mind if we think Jamie is worth it or not. To Chris, Jamie is everything he ever wanted and he’s not going to just give up for the sake of his ego.

[–] Man-In-Black08 15 years ago

I don't see that at all. Jamie is just the girl Chris' previous self was fixated on; the one that first rejected him and will always personify future successes with.

She was the one thing from his past that he could not fully erase until he knocked her off the pedestal by which he measured all other girls by. It's actually a pretty common thing. Some guys get over it, others need to conquer that particular girl in order to see and understand that she is nothing more than a persistent fixation due to their previous failure.

I had a girl like that in my life years ago. She was the first girl I really liked and had feelings for as a teenager. We were 14 and played tennis together at the same club. Everyone knew we liked each other, but I was just so shy that I never made a move, until off course it was too late (and it blew up in my face while making a fool of myself in front of all our common friends).

Till about the time I was 18, she was still constantly on my mind. Then what do you, I went to university and met tons of other girls, and as soon as I got my first sexual girlfriend (I don't count 3-week stints with girls at school I never slept with), she was out of my mind in an instant. I'm back in my home city right now, been here for over a month and haven't bothered looking her up (I know where she lives, I could easily just drop by).

Same back when I was 20. I went back home from university with an exchange program for 18 months and I didn't bother looking her up. It was that simple, and this was a girl I was pretty much OBSESSED about while still in school. I went so far as to tell other kids she was my girlfriend (she wasn't at the same school and no-one at my school knew her).

So you see, it's not really like the film, in the majority of situations anyway. People hate rejection and when it happens, they can do one of either two things; get over it or stay hooked. Needless to say getting over it is much healthier, but much more difficult, and for some people, sleeping/being with the girl of their "dreams" is the only way they can truly get over her as they realise that their godly personification of her exists solely in their mind, hyped up due to the rejection.

[–] prettyface 15 years ago

I completely agree with you. But, wouldn’t it be nice for Chris to finally get the girl he wants since he can’t get over it?

[–] Man-In-Black08 15 years ago

Of course, but it's more likely that they won't stay together. The astronomically high expectations he built up all those years, coupled with experiences with his model girlfriends, will only serve to disappoint him if she's just another girl like all the others.

I'm not saying she isn't different/better than his previous girls, only that the idea of being with her is probably so perfect in his head that it can't possibly be feasible in reality.

I just think it's best for him to see it as closure more than anything else; a closure of the "old Chris" chapter.

[–] tocaretoo 15 years ago

"Of course, but it's more likely that they won't stay together. The astronomically high expectations he built up all those years, coupled with experiences with his model girlfriends, will only serve to disappoint him if she's just another girl like all the others."
============================================================================

OMG! You got that right!

Chris isn't in love with Jamie as much as he is infatuated with the idea that he could possibly rewrite the past. I also don't see them staying together for any length of time, because Chris has reverted to type, or at least the old Chris type, and once again has no value in her eyes, except as a "friend", a crying shoulder, and an Emotional Whore.

Like prettyface said, all Jamie had to do was accept or reject. What you put into something: work, money, time ,effort, is what gives it its value, if only to you. Chris was putting in everything, all Jamie had to do was sit there. She put NOTHING into "it," and that's the value she put on Chris as well. Maybe not deliberately, maybe not consciously, after all she's not a mean person, but that's what she did.

Interestingly enough, I believe that if Chris had NEVER met Jamie, the new and improved Chris could have taken her down like child's play(although I doubt he would have even bothered.)There would have been no insecurity in his part, and she would have no wussy memories to mentally paste over his face at the mere mention of his name.

[–] Man-In-Black08 15 years ago

Interestingly enough, I believe that if Chris had NEVER met Jamie, the new and improved Chris could have taken her down like child's play(although I doubt he would have even bothered.)There would have been no insecurity in his part, and she would have no wussy memories to mentally paste over his face at the mere mention of his name.

PRECISELY! Couldn't have said it better myself! The whole reason he wants her so bad is because he got rejected in the past and needs to convince himself that he really has changed and bettered himself, and how better to do that then by succeeding when he previously failed?

I also don't see them staying together for any length of time, because Chris has reverted to type, or at least the old Chris type, and once again has no value in her eyes, except as a "friend", a crying shoulder, and an Emotional Whore.

Either that, or Chris would be his own man and Jamie wouldn't like or be able to accept it, and the relationship would fail either way. Not 100% definite it would but exceptionally higher probability that it would fail rather than prosper.

Like prettyface said, all Jamie had to do was accept or reject. What you put into something: work, money, time ,effort, is what gives it its value, if only to you. Chris was putting in everything, all Jamie had to do was sit there. She put NOTHING into "it," and that's the value she put on Chris as well. Maybe not deliberately, maybe not consciously, after all she's not a mean person, but that's what she did.

Once again, PERFECTLY said. People don't have to be mean in order to behave a certain way towards other people in relationships, it's just human nature to not care about something you put so little or no value on. She put so little value on Chris as a romantic prospect that she had no motive/desire to treat him like a guy she felt lucky to be with.

It's sad, and certainly not fair, but that is the dynamic of human relationships unfortunately. It's a evolutionary trait as well. The more desirable a man/woman is as a partner, the more the opposite sex will pursue them. 100,000 years ago desirable traits for the male were to be strong and able to defend and feed the female and her offspring, and for the female to be fertile and able to bare offspring for the male.

Today it's more about the guy having wealth, power and social status, and the woman having a slim figure, a pretty face and an overall agreeable nature. Such is the way of humanity through social evolution.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Gabby-4 15 years ago

They get married have 2 kids. He realizes all of the bimbos he was with were meaningless. Jamie becomes an art teacher and Chris gets promoted. They buy a house in Malibu and one in N.J.
They are still best friends and are happily married.

If you people want to see different - go buy Terms of Endearment or something totally depressing and not funny......geez!

[–] Movielover-67 15 years ago

Great post. I normally relate more to the female characters in a movie than with the males ones since I'm female myself but in this case I related more the the Chris character. I was never fat in high school but I was the somewhat nerdy, intelligent type with glasses and never seen as attractive by my male peers. I came back to a high school reunion and though I was really very good looking at the time (good clothes, elegant hairstyle, makeup and contacts due to a well paid job) I still didn't make any impression on my male peers, much to my disappointment. Only after I worked extremely hard on developing my personality and stepping out of familiar pattern of behavior (and not so much focusing on just looking outwardly attractive) I was for the first time perceived differently by people who know me from the past. Someone told me that she never has seen someone change so much and that was perhaps the best compliment ever given to me.

However Chris did not really change all that much. He just began new in a new system and that worked well for him because he could easily reinvent himself in a new environment. But when he came back he stumbled into all the old traps. In the beginning he wasn't so bad when he went out with Jamie on a first date. He had that gorgeous car, was well dressed and well behaved and obviously wanted to take Jamie places. It was Jamie who couldn't accept the change in Chris. I found the old waitress who called Chris fattie boy (or something along those lines) incredibly rude and if Jamie had been a real friend she would have seen how humiliating the whole incident with the ice cream dish was. If Chris had inwardly changed as much as outwardly he would have given Jamie a piece of his mind then and there. As a a true friend Jamie would have seen the changes in Chris and appreciated them, also she would have had the empathy to see that Chris might not have found his high school days and his crush on her as comforting and cozy as she did and that he probably did not want to be reminded of his days as a fat guy. I don't know if Jamie just acted incredibly dumb or if she just did not care about Chris as a person with own wants and needs at all. Many of the humiliations occurring later in the movie were of Chris's one making but many were on account of Jamie's lack of sensitivity and total egomania (in that regard I found her worse than the Paris Hilton clone-at least "Paris" didn't humiliate Chris like Jamie did and furthermore she acknowledged Chris as a sexual being which Jamie never did) .

I have also been in Jamie's shoes being friends with a guy I was not sexually attracted to but I was always acknowledging him as a man, means I took extra care to act friend-like and dress friend-like when going out. Jamie in the beginning treated Chris as if he were an eunuch, putting her face in his groin, flexing her legs in front of his face like a lap dancer. It seemed as if she got a kick out of driving Chris sexually crazy (and I say that as a woman) and that she totally enjoyed her sexual power over him by constantly making him horny but giving nothing of herself. I found her tasteless and cruel. She was not comfortable around the new improved Chris and only was happy when she had trampled him in the mud again and figuratively had castrated him again. In the last scene before Chris went back to L.A. he told her the truth about herself and about their relationship and she couldn't face or acknowledge the truth, not then, not later (and neither could anyone in that cursed small town, I have to say I didn't like anybody in that town)

The ending was a tragedy for me. Shall I tell you how Chris will end in two years if the movie would have showed the logical conclusion in an epilogue?

Chris will be fat and unattractive again and not professionally successful either. Jamie will not want to sleep with him and will treat him like her best buddy within their marriage. Their relationship was a disaster from the beginning on because Jamie was not only NOT in love with Chris (never ever), she didn't even like the poor guy.

[–] Crash521990 15 years ago

Haha I have never heard the word logical used to describe the path of a relationship. But you may be right but then again you may be wrong. If they got married though chances are they would either divorce or grow to love one another.

The abyss gazes also into you.

[–] Movielover-67 15 years ago

I have never heard the word logical used to describe the path of a relationship

LOL, I realize that sounds weird. But in fact relationships follow a certain pattern which might not appear logical outwardly but they follow a certain predictable pattern nonetheless. As many people could attest to who seemingly have the same relationship over and over again, only with different people, means: A man always marries a serial cheater no matter what he does or a woman always falls for the abusive guys, just to give two examples.

And since neither Chris had changed nor Jamie, that is what would be their familiar pattern, Jamie emasculating Chris and Chris compensating this by overindulging food-in one of the last scenes he ate ice-cream with Jamie when he successfully had abstained from sugar for ten years since he left his home town. I found that scene significant because it indicates that Chris will fall back into his old self completely when being with Jamie.

I know, I know I am probably analyzing this piece of fluff to death but somehow I didn't find it all that fluffy-there was too much truth in it for that and the movie rally made me mad (unlike other fluffy movies).

[–] Man-In-Black08 15 years ago

But in fact relationships follow a certain pattern which might not appear logical outwardly but they follow a certain predictable pattern nonetheless. As many people could attest to who seemingly have the same relationship over and over again, only with different people, means: A man always marries a serial cheater no matter what he does or a woman always falls for the abusive guys, just to give two examples.

Agreed. Humans are creatures of habit and the harder we try to kick a recurring behavioural habit, the more it consumes us.

Chris tried so hard to break free from the person he was that he became something just as bad, only completely opposite, not maturing one bit in the process. All Jamie did was reverse the polarity.

I see it with myself all the time. No matter how hard I try to avoid girls that have the exact same emotional baggage and insecurities I have, I always fail. In my defense, some times I can't tell till much later and then it's hard to break it off, but other times I know instantly from the outset, yet I still go for it.

Deep down I guess I have a subconscious desire to overcome these flaws by trying to make a relationship with something so similar work, rather than start out fresh with someone completely different.

Beats me why I have that particular hang up and attract those girls, but I'm still young and hopefully in the next 5-10 years I can "evolve" out of it.

[–] prettyface 15 years ago

Do guys think it is something wrong to like an attractive woman who has upper hand in a relationship? Why not enjoy the relationship rather than trying to gain equal grounds?

[–] Man-In-Black08 15 years ago

I'm generally against the notion of someone having the upper hand in a relationship, regardless of gender. But since I try to be as realistic as possible, I admit that it happens more often than not that one person has a more controlling/commanding role in the relationship.

Yours is a particularly hard question to answer as it depends so heavily on too many varying factors (type of upper hand, age ratio, financial independence of each party) that each relationship will differ dramatically and thus render any universal standard moot.

If I had to give a somewhat straight-forward scenario, I would most likely think of a relationship were the woman is more professionally and financially successful than the male, thereby putting stress on the man's ego. Personally, I haven't felt threatened by this, and I have had a relationship (albeit not serious or too lengthy) with a girl who was by all accounts more successful than I in the aforementioned areas, perhaps so due to the fact that she was 6 years my senior and had a head-start in her career. Perhaps if she were my age, or indeed younger than I, maybe I would have felt differently, who knows?

In this situation I feel the society in which this relationship takes places is possibly the most heavy influence. Having grown up both in the UK and Greece, I can tell you for a fact that while in the UK this is a regular occurrence and the majority doesn't think twice about it, in Greece this would be a huge no-no.

Virtually no Greek parent would ever approve of a man who earned less than their daughter as a suitable partner. Greece has such a gender-specific oriented family and social unit structure that most men would find it impossible to cope with the constant criticisms and unfair comments against him made by the girl's parents.

This in turn would manifest at some point in the girl's brain and at some point form a metal block in the progression of a relationship.

In this case, you would see that the relationship would almost certainly be kept a secret from her parents, and in many cases the girl's social circle, except perhaps her best friend and confidant (bragging rights and so on).

Again, speaking from personal experience, back when I was 20, I had a 6month relationship with a girl who was 29 at the time, and not only was I never mentioned to her parents, but I was in fact the little boy who had a miss-placed puppy love for her, when it came to her friends. No respect from her what-so-ever. But, can I blame her? After all, she was born-and-bred Greek. Social conditioning at it's finest.

She definitely had the upper-hand in our relationship and used it against me in all sorts of psychological ways, much to my detriment and sheer heart-ache. In short, if the man knows that the relationship is nothing more than a pleasant pass time, based predominantly on sex with no real chance of anything serious becoming of it, then no, I don't think there's a problem.

However, one most also keep in mind that in today's day and age, women have it better than men, as they have been liberated of most of the social stereotypes and restrictions that were placed on them up until the late '70s, while men are still bound by most of them in the majority of societies.

[–] ramfrommaine 15 years ago

********************************************************************************
..........if the man knows that the relationship is nothing more than a pleasant pass time, based predominantly on sex with no real chance of anything serious becoming of it, then no, I don't think there's a problem.
********************************************************************************

Lots of luck with that! I believe that the "always be better, be more successful, make more money, be the only man in her life" conditioning of the average male makes that scenario itself another rom-com plot, but not much more.

Case in point.

My young brother in law, single, takes up with an older woman, divorced, 7 figures, high level exec, owns her own company, looks,body,money, the whole shebang! She made it clear from the git-go all she wanted him for was a warm body on her arm for public functions,...... and sex afterwards. She even referred to him in public as "my sex partner," never as "my boyfriend." This was like EVERY guys dream situation, but after a couple months it was over. Reason: HE wanted to get serious. He didn't like the fact that she also dated men at her age/income level. I almost fell over. She offered him a job, his own apartment (he rents our spare room), car, money to live off of, all he has to do is be available when called. God! I would have offed my spouse for a chance to be in his shoes. That is, if it wouldn't be such a bitch to get rid of the body.(O.K., Only kidding)

After thirty years of marriage, it figures that I would have no self esteem, no ego, and would gladly be a "Kept" individual to some wealthy hottie. He, on the other hand, lets his pig-headed male ego get in the way of a good thing.

Do or do not! There is no try!

[–] Man-In-Black08 15 years ago

I think that's a slightly different situation to the scenario I had in mind and tried to describe. I was thinking more along the lines of a somewhat private relationship/arrangement in which aside from each other's closest friends, everyone else was none the wiser.

What got to your brother-in-law (I'm guessing) is the fact that he was objectified so publicly. I find it a sign of healthy self-esteem and respect that he objected to it, not the other-way around.

During my final year at university, for the last 3 months or so, I had a strictly sex-only relationship with a girl (also from the university). We both had assignments and exams coming up and were under considerable pressure, so we welcomed the release of tension we provided for each other, but apart from our respective flat-mates, no one was aware of our arrangement.

We would bump into each other on campus and so on and we'd just act like we were friends, nothing more. There was no stress or drama and the knowledge that we were both leaving when the summer started, essentially giving our "relationship" and expiration date, only made it easier to rationalise the idea and not succumb to any romantic feelings that, admittedly, were looming in my head after a few weeks.

Truth is, it's a weird situation to be in for a lot of people. I find I'm somewhat more cynical than your average person when it comes to relationships and nowhere near as romantic or idealistic as what my friends are, so perhaps my own experiences and disappointments are what allow me to have low enough expectations in order to maintain a level-head. Who knows...?

Either way, I find your brother-in-law's reaction to be pretty reasonable. I'd have reservations about any person, man or woman, who allowed themselves to be publicly flaunted as a sex toy and NOT take offense at some point.

[–] LukeLovesFilm28 8 years ago

This movie wonderfully demonstrates hypergamy and what it can do to boys

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

[–] WavesBeneath 15 years ago

I agree with all you said, OP.

[–] Mutant101 14 years ago

I agree with you, the ending would've been more realistic is Chris/Jamie didn't become a couple. In contrast to Chris, I think the way Dusty handled Jamie's final rejection of him was more realistic. Jamie rebuffs Dusty's offer for a relationship, and he takes it with stride (knowing that he's capable of getting more women).

[–] Man-In-Black08 14 years ago

In contrast to Chris, I think the way Dusty handled Jamie's final rejection of him was more realistic. Jamie rebuffs Dusty's offer for a relationship, and he takes it with stride (knowing that he's capable of getting more women).

My thoughts exactly. Dusty was actually a far more plausible character (although not necessarily more likable) than Chris. He's been rejected and most likely ridiculed his entire adolescent life, it's only natural that he'd be a bit bitter and not eager to revert back to being a throw-away friend to an attractive girl.

What I think should be stressed is that even though people grow older, their maturity when it comes to relationships won't always mature with them. More often than not, people find themselves repeating the same mistakes, over and over again.

[–] EvilMovieWatcher 8 years ago

I remember seeing this flick in the theater and enjoying it on the surface. Re-watching it I believe it does a good job at flirting with the "friend-zone" notion, but then by the end it sort of blows it up.

I think everyone who says it's unrealistic that they end up together and/or thinks it would have ended up better if Chris Brander just told her off and left.....I don't know if it would have been better, just different.

The main piece of information we are missing is how Jamie Palamino actually felt about Chris back in high school. They were obviously really good friends. Chris was in love with her, but never had the balls to say anything. To me, that still puts a lot of the blame on him. Jamie may have been flirtatious and "suggestive" within their friendship, but I assume she also had guys actually asking her out, showing interest in dating. If Chris never did that other than what he fantasized about in his head? Then that is his fault for not taking a risk and putting himself out there.

Now, if you ask me, the even MOOOOORE honest ending would have been Jamie Palamino sticking to her guns about just wanting to be friends, even with the "new and improved" Chris Brander. The fact that she wants to hook up with him, and then ultimately be with him when the movie ends, is what clouds up everything, IMO.

The scene where Chris's true feelings are read out loud from the year book, and Jamie tries to confront Chris about it, asking if that is the way he really felt? That was his chance. He was pretty much caught red-handed, but even then couldn't bring himself to admit that he was in love with her. So when he denied it and said it was a joke, then she might have just been comforting him by saying they would still be friends forever or whatever she said.

The fact is since we don't really know how Jamie felt back in high school, we have to make our own assumptions and fill in the blanks the best we can. I remember high school, every one was different, acted different, was at different levels of maturity. The whole notion that Jamie was "teasing" Chris is a little too matter of fact in some of the opinions on this board. We don't know truly enough about their characters from their high school years.

The fact remains though that Chris Brander ran away from the one person he wanted all along out of fear & shame, and he became a jerk to women not because of Jamie so much, but because of his own inability to take the plunge and tell Jamie how he actually felt back then.

[–] itisjitu 14 years ago

I would like to disagree here with you.
May be because of your personal experience you feel that ending was not real but for Chris and Jamie it was the perfect ending.

I think there are many things in movie which suggest that they both were ready for a long term relationship or marriage.

Janie:- After having so many broken relationship she finally realized that how much she was wrong in rejecting Chris, she hated that old Jamie who used to go out with jerks, all those guys who just wanted to have sex with her. Thats why she tried to hide from Chris when she saw him after 10 years, he reminded her that old Jamie which she is ashamed of.

And when Chris asked about her future she said she wants to have family and kids. Clearly she was looking for a permanent relationship and for her Chris was the perfect guy. A guy who is not only good looking and handsome but also a guy who truly loved her.

Chris:- Chris always 'wanted more' from Jamie. When they were friends he wanted more that just friendship. And when finally he got a chance to have sex with Jamine he realized that he 'wanted more'. He feared that Jamie would because just another one night stand for him. He thought she is the same Jamie who would sleep with any good looking guy.
But when Jamie rejected that guy he finally realized that just like him Jamie also wanted to have a permanent relationship with him.

[–] KPalma1950 14 years ago

Isn't there an alternate ending on the DVD with Chris flying home and just staying there? They ruin that one, too. He's all sad and broken, and it seems like a hopeless ending. Still not him moving on and emulsifying Jamie from his past.

[–] blacknyellowsquid 13 years ago

wow lol such a deep, well thought out thread (not just OP's message but the whole thing) for such a goofy, slapstick movie! Although I'll admit, the reason why I left the channel on this movie (more than once) IS because of the whole loser-turned-hot-going-back-and-facing-his-rejector dynamic. It is an interesting dynamic.

A lot of good points are made in this thread. And yes, I suppose it would have been more satisfying for him to have moved on. Jamie acted so weird around him when he came back, like she still didn't like him. It wasn't even like she suddenly had realized he really was a fantastic person that she had overlooked, etc. She was just kind of cool towards him still. And it annoyed me that she never apologized or acknowledged how she had rejected him. She was just like "So why did you leave me?" STILL as if she had done nothing wrong. Naturally he down played it, not wanting to 'go there' but she was acting oblivious to the rejection she had caused him.

Anyway, not much more to contribute here. I just found this whole thread fascintating!

[–] simian_ninja 12 years ago

I remember watching this movie a while back and basically thinking nearly everything that was mentioned in this thread.

I met up with my old high school flame (I carried a torch for her for years) earlier this year and she had turned into a total hippy weirdo. Not once at this meeting (and several meetings just by chance) had I ever felt the same way that I did once.

Even if he had returned home by himself - the movie wouldn't have been depressing at all if handled correctly. It could have actually have been a coming of age story for the 30 year old crowd, but it was made for the high school crowd and was there to take their money and tell them that everything would be ok in the end.

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Deftones make the world a better place

[–] monstermayhem32 12 years ago

While it was nice for Jamie to finally realize that Chris meant more to her than just a friend but I am rather surprised that it took her so long to realize it.

[–] tingkagol 12 years ago

Can I just say something?

This is by far the most insightful thread I've ever come across in IMDB. It's quite a surprise that I found it in a movie that is anything but serious (at the surface at least).

[–] Man-In-Black08 9 years ago

Just bumping this back to the top. It's been over 6 years since I started this thread, so I thought it would be interesting to see if any new opinions could be added, or even some older ones be revised.