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David Ayer seems to misunderstand his own character

posted 15 years ago by thefilmguy7
11 replies | jump to latest

While listening to the DVD commentary for the Harsh Times, I noticed that David Ayer, the writer/director, seems to have trouble with character identification. He gives contradictory information about the inner workings of Jim's mind. I do think it was clever how Ayer establishes that Jim uses different social masks, or personas, around the people in his life. However, there is a moment in the commentary when Ayer explains that Jim enjoys violence and even enjoys killing other people. This does not fit in with what was established as the character's identity. How does that fit into Jim having intense nightmares of murder and mayhem on the battle field? You don't have nightmares about something that you enjoy doing. Ayer seems to not understand his own character. We all have behaviors that we are prone to. Jim is someone who is prone to violent behavior. He has lived a life surrounded by violence and has taken part in violence but that does not mean that he enjoys violence. God knows that there are quiet a few behaviors that I'm prone to that I'm not proud of. Everyone does. Problem is that Jim's are more destructive than most.

Think about the scene where Jim and Mike watch that guy get his throat cut in the bar. Jim's initial reaction was not excitement or enjoyment. For a moment, he was frozen in place and looked disturbed. Almost as though he was transported back to a memory from Iraq. As soon as he and Mike reached the car though then Jim had put back up his bad ass persona that pretends isn't fazed by anything. Jim tries to play it cool. Until Jim is reminded of a friend of his from the war that had his arms and legs blown off. While talking about his friend he begins to lower his guard and show that he isn't as unfazed by violence as he likes others to think.

In the film, it is set up that Jim wants nothing more than to get a steady job in LA and to settle down with his woman. He doesn't really begin to psychologically break down until his violent past catches up with him when he's asked to go to Columbia to continue a life of violence. Did he look happy when he got the job? No. Again, his behavior is prone to a life of violence so he took the job. But on a deeper level it's not the life he wanted. He felt trapped at that point. He was already unstable and on the edge as it was but being denied the life he wanted with Marta and on top of that returning to the very thing that has been haunting him in his dreams pushes him all the way off the deep end. It seems that this is a very important aspect that a director should understand about his character and I think it's odd that Ayer didn't think about it on that level.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] thefilmguy7 15 years ago

I didn't mean to suggest that all of Jim's problems stemmed from the army. Certainly he was troubled to begin with. Going to the army was like throwing gasoline on a fire. They did establish though that he was suffering from post traumatic stress syndrome which certainly helped lead to his psychological breakdown later on in the film. Had he never gone to the army I'm sure he still would have found trouble but it clearly pushed him into a dangerous place. Keep in mind that in a few places through out the film, we are reminded by people that Jim and Mike encounter that Jim at one time was more mellow and chill. He was more in control of his violent nature. Being in combat and actually exploring that violent nature of his to the fullest is something that he couldn't handle. Even though he tried to make himself and those around him think otherwise. Like I said he is instinctually violent and prone to violent behavior. The army some times attracts people like that. I was mostly just making the point that there is more complexities to his character then what was on the surface. The man was a contradiction. He lived a life of violence yet was haunted by it. He could have easily jumped right back into a life of violence after serving in Iraq but instead wanted to settle down with a steady job and a wife. He seemed content to try to put his past behind him. The scene where Mike wanted Jim to talk about his experiences killing people seemed to disturb and irritate Jim. The scene where they forced Jim to look at the photos of men that he killed he again looked disturbed. He was suffering from intense nightmares of what he had done. Clearly this is not a man who enjoys violence even though he is prone to it. He tries to escape it but in the end he can't. That's when he snaps. This is actually a very deep character. Deeper than the director seemed to realize which is funny because he is the one who created him. This seems to indicate to me that Bale understood the complexities of the character even more than it's creator and instilled that depth into his portrayal. It's certainly there in the performance.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] FactUnderChecK 15 years ago

Maybe 'enjoyed' wasnt exactly what david ayer was trying to say with this character. there was part of jim that was drawn to violence. I believe jim had developed spilt personailties to some level, as in when he was in mexico he was a different man (most of the time) calm and collected. caring even.
obviously jim saw some truely messed up things in the army "you should work in a dehli the way you sliced those guys up". and he developed this crazy *beep* dont give a *beep* persona to cope. but after he came home the memories stuck with him and so did his coping mechanism.
violence gives some people a rush, can become addictive. and it is said taking lives can be extremely addictive to some people. Jim had to do alot of both. its like people into hard drugs, they dont enjoy it anymore but they cant help themselves.

most likely jim had mania, i want to say manic depressive except he didnt seem to be depressed at all. if there is a psychologist out there im sure they can tell us what jims personality disorder was, because there are many people who display the same character traits in real life. theres something that seperates that kind of crazy from normal crazy.

regardless of what jims issues were, christian bale took this character to another level. i cannot compliment his work on this enough haha

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] Stukach 15 years ago

sltcs6010, Jim manic depressed or having signs of mania, you kidding me? You have no idea what you're talking about, Jim didn't seem manic depressive at all.

_______________________
"They're crabs, they're eating him... nature sucks."

[–] FactUnderChecK 15 years ago

well please explain how he wasnt showing manic depressive behaviour? and why are you coming on all harsh sying i dont know what I'm talking about? i didnt say he was manic depressive, i said he seemed to have mania and i WANTED to say manic depressive.

you indicated quite stongly you think mania is out of the question.
if you dont think he seemed to have mania here are the symtoms of mania...

"Symptoms of mania include rapid speech, racing thoughts, decreased need for sleep, hypersexuality, euphoria, impulsiveness, grandiosity, and increased interest in goal-directed activities.[3] Mild forms of mania, known as hypomania, cause little or no impairment, but some people who suffer from prolonged hypomania may develop full mania."

..sounds like jim to me.

Im not going to say you dont know what your talking about because you havent really said anything yet. but id like to hear how you think i dont know what im talking about? with your opinion.

inconclusion as I said before I believe there is no doubt it was mania. bipolar disorder would also fit, though not as well as mania does. haha which is what I said earlier.

-ps. i am very familiar with bipolar and mania.

- Here are more symtoms of Mania and bipolar (that would be manic depressive).

Manic symptoms include irritability, anger or rage, delusions, hypersensitivity, hypersexuality, hyper-religiosity, hyperactivity, impulsiveness, racing thoughts, talkativeness, pressure to keep talking or rapid speech, grandiose ideas and plans, and decreased need for sleep (e.g. feels rested after 3 or 4 hours of sleep). In manic and hypomanic cases, the afflicted person may engage in out of character behavior such as questionable business transactions, wasteful expenditures of money, risky sexual activity, abnormal social interaction, or highly vocal arguments uncharacteristic of previous behaviors. *Jim displays almost every single one of those traits - i cannot say enough how well christian bale played it either! :)*

Bipolar is caused by a chemical inbalance in the brain. What distinguishes bipolar disorder from unipolar depression is that the affected person jumps between states of mania and depression.
So I've already been over mania and its symtoms and I think most people are familiar with symtoms of severe depression - persistent feelings of sadness, anxiety, guilt, anger, isolation, or hopelessness; disturbances in sleep and appetite; fatigue and loss of interest in usually enjoyable activities; problems concentrating; loneliness, self-loathing, apathy or indifference; depersonalization; loss of interest in sexual activity; shyness or social anxiety; irritability, morbid suicidal ideation.

[–] mastholte 15 years ago

watching HT made me manic for a while, too :)
may I ask? what do you think about the deliberate no-thinking technique? was Jim taught it or could it come as part of his mania? thanks...

[–] coochieflavoredmilkdud 15 years ago

no, Jim is P.T.S.D., alot of of child abuse survivors have it and ppl who come home from the war.
My uncle used to get *beep* and pull guns out on ppl like jim did in the movie, its not that he likes it, infact jim probley was terrified of himself. anything can set someone with ptsd over the edge and thats what i think jim was, not bipolar.

[–] warec-2 12 years ago

Maybe Jim is Psychopath trying to cope but it isnt possible for him.Mike even says that Jims a psychopath when he gets to know they will put him on detector test.

[–] subase 12 years ago

It's not unusual to be afraid of ones own desires and propensities.

Jim was prone to violence, he desired it and he enjoyed it. (As he did in the army slicing those guys up)

But that doesn't mean he couldn't be severely disturbed by this. Most people would be severely disturbed as they are taught from a young age that violence is bad, immoral and even evil. Jim tried to separate himself from that part of himself, but ultimately failed.