MovieChat Forums > Hard Candy (2006) Discussion > I'm not even sure about how bad Jeff is

I'm not even sure about how bad Jeff is

posted 9 years ago by VivienCastro
26 replies | jump to latest

He isn't even a pedophile. I'm surprised that for a character so educated on the topic Hayley didn't even know the definition. Pedophiles like prepubescent kids.

Having said that, of course he is still a creep, targeting specifically young girls. But nothing at all indicated he ever raped anyone.

He even draws a very clear line with Hayley about how he won't have sex with her, although she takes full charge, shows she is mentally mature and knows what she's doing, and basically throws herself at him over and over again. he does let it happen but he also keeps trying to pull back.

At best he wanted to take pics to jerk off too.

He isn't a good guy, he took pics of the murdered girl and then kept quiet not to get into trouble, and he is unfortunate in that he is attracted to girls he shouldn't be dating, but as far as problems go that doesn't make him a dangerous monster. And sure, he went to kill Hayley after the mental torture and humiliation she put him through, but let's be honest, who wouldn't? Ffs, if she ties you up just to make you listen to her talk for one hour I think every sane person would want to kill her.

Finally the confusing part is that the love of his life is his age anyway. It seems like his obsession with underage girls comes from the fact that he was with her when they were teens, but he still loves her so much he'd rather die than have her see him this way. So even his teenage preference seems like something maybe a bit of therapy could help with.

[–] therefdotcom 9 years ago

people like you scare me.

[–] VivienCastro 9 years ago

You don't go out much, do you?

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] danloki 8 years ago

people like you scare me.

I don't know what's moe disturbing - the movie or the OP. Excusing the filth that the guy was because he didn't rape and murder the girl? No, all he did was fracking stand by and film it. Jesus christ on a bicycle. Then he went on to 'groom' the underaged on the net.

Beggars belief. WTF does the OP think he killed himself if he wasnt guilty of criminal activity.

[–] iamvox 9 years ago

It's established in the very first frame of the film that Jeff is trying to have a relationship with a fourteen-year-old girl, which makes him a criminal sex offender right off the bat.

Later, we learn that he has pictures of underage girls hidden away. We also learn that he's a party to the murder and rape of a young girl.

All of this makes him a bit more than just "a creep."

He gives Hayley liquor, which she points out later on in the film is NOT the appropriate thing to do. Sure, a girl might want to have some booze, but the adult in the room shouldn't be the one supplying it, yes? As she also points out, a girl may experiment with her developing sexuality, but it's the responsibility of the adult in the room not to flirt back with her. Honestly, this shouldn't need to be spelled out to any adult.

I'm always confused as to why some people don't think Jeff is a criminal sex offender because he actually admits that he is at the end of the film. There is absolutely no question here.

[–] Royalcourtier 9 years ago

No. She accused him of all sorts of things. He might have been guilty, but she didn't know that. She kidnapped and tortured someone based on suspicion. Suspicion based only on the fact that he was a photographer.

[–] iamvox 9 years ago

The evidence was overwhelming. There is absolutely no doubt what Jeff was. The film made this devastatingly clear.

[–] Dragon000 8 years ago

It wasn't based on suspicion only due to his being a photographer- the other guy, Aaron, who she also convinced to kill himself, told her that Jeff had been the one to kill the girl. She was convinced that he had done so.

[–] IllustratedGrrl 8 years ago

Yes, thank you! It is so effed up and unbelievable to me that there are people that think the way the OP does. Scary actually.

[–] GeF_fEn 9 years ago

OP.. he is a pedophile. She found kiddieporn in his safe. What does that tell you?
I`d say he likes girls from a very young age up to 14-15 maybe.

(SSDD)

[–] VivienCastro 9 years ago

It's clear that he is attracted to teenage girls (no reason to think he'd be attracted to anyone younger, as the physique is completely different pre puberty, and as it never came up in any form in the movie.) That is something outside of his control.

He also clearly deals with it by taking photos of the girls and using them as porn, and the other photos are probably actual porn.

Does he have sex with them though, that is not clear at all. Hayle was the one who initiated everything at the start besides the date and he was mainly holding back from doing sexual things although he had tons of opportunity when she was in his apartment at first and willing. The only thing he did seem to want to do was to take pics, which he can later excuse as "modeling." That makes it even less likely to assume he actually rapes young girls as everything he did indicated the opposite.

So yeah, he's into teenage girls, he is well aware of the laws and into protecting himself, it seems like he knows the best he can do is take pics that aren't technically porn so he uses that to act out his urge on willing participants. He also does have some actual pornography (taken by him? or just porn found online?) he keeps safely hidden. It doesn't seem like he has sex with these girls, let alone rape them and murder them.

The guy has problems he is coping with, he's *beep* up, but I am very skeptical about him being a murder rapist and the movie didn't convince me that he deserved any of the *beep* Haylie put him through. Maybe just some proper professional help.

[–] GeF_fEn 9 years ago

I know what you mean. I felt the same way the first time I saw the movie. He`s a nice guy, likable. But I do think he and his friend have killed atleast 1 girl. And when Hailey opens the safe she looks at some photos and say " you`re sick".
I believe it`s child porn he keeps in the safe and a picture of the girl thats "missing" but it`s obvious that they killed her. If Hailey hadnt shown up I believe they would have killed again and again.

But thats what I like about this movie, you can interpret it how ever you like I guess.
But I think it`s pretty obvious what he`s done, Im referring to the roof scene.

(SSDD)

[–] joycbeyda 8 years ago

On the roof - Jeff says he didn't kill the missing girl, but he watched and he will help Hayley find the killer.
Hayley replies that she already knows who the other person is and that the other person said Jeff was the one who killed her.
If the fact that he admits he was there and witnessed her murder, but never told the police and that he and this other guy are both blaming each other for her death is not enough to make him a disgusting, guilty person, worthy of everything Hayley did to him - then I don't know what does.
Towards the end of the movie - Jeff stabs one of his photos of a girl repeatedly ( in the crotch area, I believe) and shouts that Hayley is right and she has
allowed him to see that this is who he truly is
That does not mean Hayley is not a psycho, it just means she is taking her insanity out on people who are evil, while Jeff takes out his issues on innocent children.

[–] IllustratedGrrl 8 years ago

I really hope you don't have children. Would it be okay with you if "someone else" had taken pornographic pictures of your child/sister/niece/etc and then others downloaded it and used it to "cope"? I cannot believe you're serious here!

There's a reason that it is a crime punishable with substantial jail time for even downloading those pictures. Those "coping mechanisms" are the product of a business, children and their stolen innocence being the commodity.

[–] gordonator 9 years ago

Doesn't he explicitly admit guilt that he was at the very least there when his friend killed the girl if not doing it himself?

[–] VivienCastro 9 years ago

Yeah, he was there. Like I said, the idea of him just taking photos and not raping/murdering seems to work with the behavior he demonstrated in the movie where he only wanted to take photos of Hayley and avoided having sex with her even when she was coming on to him and as far as he knew he had every chance to do something. Also, at the end of the movie he is pretty much in the "*beep* it" mode and talking openly, yet he still only says he took the photos.

So he didn't go to the cops, but in a way I can understand that. Being involved with anything related to child porn/pedophilia would ensure the rest of his life is miserable, and the girl was already dead. I can't blame him for his decision making.

If what he said was true, I would not think he is a horrible person.

Of course there is ambiguity about how involved he really was - we can't say for sure he didn't do more, maybe murder or rape her. I don't think he did based on his behavior, but we don't know. Point is, neither does Hayley.

[–] gordonator 9 years ago

What the *beep* are you talking about? He's an accomplice to MURDER. Not only did he stand by while it happened, he took pictures and never reported it to the police. If that's not a horrible person, I don't know what is.

------------------------------
Do you even rate, bro?

[–] joycbeyda 8 years ago

gordonator - thank you.
For someone to post in defense of this character is disgusting.
He is an accomplice to murder and possibly a murderer himself.
Not to mention he enjoys underaged porn- which is a crime.
I had moments in the beginning where I wasn't sure what was really going on and I felt a little sympathy for Jeff when he told the story of being held over a burner with his pants down at the age of nine- but he grew up and chose to be a disgusting person and deserved what he got.

[–] coolbrett 9 years ago

I'm not even sure about how bad Jeff is

That's because Jeff wanted to believe he wasn't a pedophile. He knows pedophilia is bad because society tells him it's terrible, so he chooses to remain blind to the fact that he's a monster. He likes to make excuses for what he's doing and convinces himself he's not a bad person, which is why he tries to step back a bit when Hailey makes it clear she wants to 'fool around'. He knows it will get him in trouble, so he wants to distance himself a bit and do things where he is able to deny what he's doing is wrong. Such as taking pictures. He thinks he's innocent if he doesn't rape them, and all he's doing is taking pictures, where *oops* her clothes just happen to fall off. He does this all throughout the movie. He tries to convince her and himself that he's not a monster. But Hailey remains persistent, and in the end he FINALLY accepts it and says out loud "this is me, thank you for making me see it" or something along those lines. His habits of denial are over, and he finally sees who he is. If you felt sympathy for his character, it's because the movie shows us that terrible people can blend in with society, and they mask things so well. A lot of pedophiles are family men. They don't want to admit to themselves that what they're doing is wrong. Too many people assume criminals fit a certain mold, and they can easily be spotted. Even shoplifters don't look or act like you would expect. It's because they can be sane, and also intelligent, yet bad people. They know what is and isn't permitted by society, so they do their best to hide it.

[–] VivienCastro 9 years ago

While we both seem to correctly interpret his actions in the movie (him being careful not to cross the line and yet being attracted, settling for photos etc), we completely disagree about the interpretations.

I don't think that his attraction to underage girls alone makes him a monster. Hell I don't even think actual pedophiles (he isn't really a pedophile, as he is into post pubescent girls) are monsters if they don't act on it but that's a different story. He has a problem and only his actions would show if he was bad or not.

He does try to indulge his urges the best way he can while not crossing the line (too much), which leads me to believe he was telling the truth about not raping and killing the girl at the end. And like you said, at the end he loses it and things come out and yet he still denies doing this.

So no, from what he did I see his flaws but I don't see him as a monster. And trying to push and push a person to give into their negative urges and then being like "ha! I was justified all along" is pretty pathetic. We all have a capacity to punch a person yet we know it is wrong or at the very least will carry consequences so we restrain ourselves from being physically aggressive even if we sometimes feel like it. Now if someone forced themselves in your face, non stop provoking you in every way possible, screaming in your face and not backing down until you finally lose your *beep* and punch them, do they have the right to point and say "see, you're an aggressive person, I proved my point?"

Him walking the line to me is a sign to me that he was not that bad, that he had self restraint, and could function normally in the society but this girl thought she was justified to do physical and mental torture on him due to urges he had curbed and a suspicion of a crime that he never confirmed.

[–] therefdotcom 9 years ago

- he was present when a girl was raped and did nothing against it, he also wanted to take pictures and there were two people involved, him and the other guy hailey visited. both said they didn't do it.obviously at least one of them lied
- he met with her in a cafe and lied to her to get her to his house. what do you think his intention was?
- he was into pre-pubescent girls. hailey contacted him as multiple online users and as soon as she claimed to be older than 14, he did break the contact.

as i already said, if you see hailey as the aggressor, there is clearly something wrong with you and i would seriously advice professional help.

[–] VivienCastro 9 years ago

he was present when a girl was raped and did nothing against it, he also wanted to take pictures and there were two people involved, him and the other guy hailey visited. both said they didn't do it.obviously at least one of them lied

Yeah, there were 2 people involved in a photoshoot gone wrong. One who said his only involvement was taking pics of the underage girl and the other whose role is unclear. We don't have too many details on how things went down but we do find out the following about our character: 1. he does take pics of underage girls 2. he didn't try to rape an underage girl when he had a chance (when he first took her home) 3. he pulled away every time the underage girl got sexual so he wasn't even trying for consensual sex, only pics 4. he lost his *beep* at the end and stopped giving a *beep* about pretending, like you yourself said - yet he still denied murder and rape. So even if it's not 100% there is more than reasonable doubt that he didn't do any rape and murder.

Second, we don't know what he could have done. We don't know how the girl was killed. we don't know if guns were involved. But I can fully understand why he wouldn't tell the cops, cause involvement with child porn is a sure way to ruin your life forever and she was already dead. Can't say I blame him.

he met with her in a cafe and lied to her to get her to his house. what do you think his intention was?

What did he lie about? Liking a band? He didn't lie about his age. He met her at the cafe and was reluctant to take her to his house. She invited himself. When there, she initiated multiple times and he rejected her. His intention became clear pretty soon, in fact you yourself recognized it - he wanted some pics, staying on the safe side. I am sure he also enjoyed coming close enough to the object of his "forbidden attraction" but he demonstrated a good idea of which lines not to cross.

he was into pre-pubescent girls. hailey contacted him as multiple online users and as soon as she claimed to be older than 14, he did break the contact.

I won't vilify a person because of what turns him on as that isn't a moral issue. Whether they act on it and how they act on it is. He didn't end up showing us that he was a murderer and a rapist, just a guy who is attracted to underage girls. Hell that's not even pedophilia and we got some indications that it's more a psychological thing related to a period of his life when he was with the girl he is still in love with.

I am not portraying him as a selfless saint who only thinks about the good of humanity and has no issues. He is flawed, but Hayley failed to show how he would be a monster deserving of awful things she did to him which included mental and physical torture, humiliation and finally, murder.

On the other hand she manipulated and tortured a man, took pleasure in it, and without finding any conclusive evidence of his guilt decided to make him kill himself. Hell yes the little bitch is a monster and the aggressor here.

[–] joycbeyda 8 years ago

You can't blame him? He didn't cross the line?
You are disturbing.
He should have NEVER been chatting online with a 14 year old.
He should have NEVER met her at a shop for coffee.
He should have NEVER allowed her to come to his home or drink alcohol.
He may have been saying no with his mouth, but all of these actions of his showed otherwise.
You don't blame him for going to the cops about the murder because he had kiddy porn?
He didn't cross the line because it was just pictures?
You don't believe he actually murdered the girl, he just happened to be there?
If he was innocent he would have called 911 when he had the chance and he also would not have jumped off of the roof rather than let the woman he supposedly loved find out the truth about him.
He knew he was a disgusting, nasty, twisted criminal and he jumped because it was easier than facing the truth and the punishment for his crimes.

[–] joycbeyda 8 years ago

I'm sorry but you are a scary person.

I do agree that him having attractions towards underage girls is not something he can control.

But him taking pictures of underaged girls, chatting online with underaged girls, meeting underaged girls at coffee shops, bringing underaged girls back to his home, giving alcohol to underaged and being an accomplice to murder are ALL personal choices he made and they do make him a bad person and a criminal.

If he was never chatting online with a child and meeting a child at a coffe shop or bringing a child back to his place, she could have never pushed up on him and tempted him to go further.

As an adult it is HIS responsibility to do what is right, regardless of the stupid, immature things a child might do or try to convince him to do.

[–] splintzspc 8 years ago

Wow you sound like you have been to a few NAMBLA meetings. Your thought process on the subject is the same as the ramblings that those sick f&&ke&s who try to justify their sick illegal predatory actions. Just replace the young boys with young girls.

If you can't see that what he is doing is wrong and illegal on so many levels you have problems.

[–] 8 years ago

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