MovieChat Forums > Big Love (2006) Discussion > Rewatching 'Big Love'; My Rant

Rewatching 'Big Love'; My Rant


I watched "Big Love" from the very beginning to the very end, and now that I'm rewatching it on my HBO Go app, I need to vent about some stuff:

I really dislike all of the characters except for Margene, Barb, Sarah, Ben and Ana. Instead of listing all of the characters I don't like and my reasons, here's the two I dislike the most and why:

-Bill: He's the most selfish man ever. He wants what he wants and doesn't care who it hurts or what it costs others. When Nikki went snooping through Margene's things and found out how much money she was making with her jewelry business and told Bill, and Bill yelled at Margene and told her she needed to sign her checks over to the "common pot", I wanted to smack him. But, when Margene said "no Bill, I think we should have lawyers and accountants..." etc, I was like "GO MARGENE!!" How dare Bill demand she sign over ALL of her money!? I can understand Margene putting SOME into their common pot, but all? Go eff yourself Bill! He tried doing the same thing to Ana, telling her to put her tips into the common pot, and Ana basically told him to go to hell. There's many more examples I could give, but that one sticks out the most for me. Also, he gets mad at everyone who doesn't agree with him. When Sarah announced she was moving and she didn't want to be a part of a public polygamist family, and Bill got mad at her...well, that just takes the cake. Sarah has her own life and I don't blame her for not wanting to be ridiculed by the public for her PARENT'S choices.

-Nikki: Ugh, where do I begin? She's another selfish person and I disliked her throughout the entire series. During the episode where Margene found out there was a vote on whether she should be in the family and Nikki told her she voted "no" because she was afraid it'd always be the "Margene Show" I was like "uh, no, that's YOU Nikki, it's always gotta be the 'Nikki Show'." Melinda said it best to Nikki when she showed up at Adalene's wedding "There's nothing you wouldn't do to be the center of attention" and she was right. Whenever Barb or Margene came to Nikki upset looking for comfort, Nikki would always brush their problems aside and be like "Well what about ME!?" To Nikki, only SHE matters, only HER problems matter, screw everyone else. Nikki messed up in that marriage soooo many times, and she was forgiven EVERY TIME, yet when Margene or Barb does something thats not even a fraction as serious Nikki is ready to throw them under the bus. And, later on in the series, Nikki has the nerve to say she wants Bill all to herself. Nikki, Bill was Barb's husband FIRST. If anyone has the right to say they want Bill to themselves it's Barb and Barb only. If you want a man all to yourself, go find another one. Lois saying that Nikki caught Bill like a spider (or something like that), I believe is true. That's the type of person Nikki is. I wish Bill had gone through with the separation with Nikki.

Why I like Margene, Barb and Ana:

-Margene: I relate to Margene a lot. She went from a teenager to a wife and had no "in between" time to figure herself out, which is what I went through. I married my husband when I was 17 and, like Margene, I spent the first few years of my marriage figuring out who I am and what I want to do with my life. (I have no regrets though, I love my husband and my life and I wouldn't change anything). Bill, Nikki, and even Barb walked all over Margene and treated her not like a wife/sister wife, but like a teenage daughter. Notice how whenever Barb and Nikki discussed anything serious, they'd tell Margene to go watch the kids, or do something else that involved her NOT being part of the discussion? They had no respect for her as a sister wife because if they did, she would've been included in those discussions. Not only that, but she's pretty much crucified by her whole family because she doesn't want to become public and lose her business. Honestly, if I was Margene, I would've said "screw this, I worked hard and I am NOT losing my business because my husband is a selfish pig" and then I would've left.

-Barb: I feel so bad for Barb. She spent over a decade married to Bill and only Bill then gets seriously ill and her husband says "I think we need to be polygamists." That would KILL me if my husband did that to me. What Bill did to Barb was selfish and cruel and I honestly can't believe Barb agreed to plural marriage. She's portrayed as a strong minded woman yet she goes along with it. My pity for Barb stems from the fact I think she thinks she can't do any better than Bill and so she agreed to plural marriage. And having Nikki as a sister wife? If I were Barb, I would've lasted all of 2 days with Nikki. How can they not see Nikki for what she really is? Barb has put up with so much and she deserves better.

-Ana: I love Ana. She tells it like it is. That time in the grocery store with Margene and Nikki and Ana tells Margene Nikki is a "bi*ch." Well, duh! I would've loved to see Ana slap Nikki and put her in her place. Even though I felt bad for Margene when Ana left with her fiance to Russia (because Ana was one of the only people, I feel, who really cared about Margene), it's probably a good thing she left. I wouldn't want my child raised around the Henricksons either.

Anyways, this post has gotten pretty long, so I'll stop. I just really needed to vent my frustrations with some of the characters. What do you all think?

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So Bill busts his ass and puts all his money in the common pot, but Margene should have her own account? What marriage runs this way?

Bill is a flawed but very well meaning man. You are not appreciating him enough.

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No, I didn't say Margene should have all of her money to herself. I said she should put SOME of her money in there, but not ALL. Early on in the series Bill tells Barb to sign over her check from teaching to the common pot and she doesn't want to and they end up in a days long argument over it. I took from this that Barb is not used to signing over her checks and feels the money she earns from working is HERS, so therefore why should Margene? Eventually, Barb DOES sign over her check, telling Bill if he had just ASKED, she'd had no problem doing it, but he DEMANDED she do it, like he demanded Margene do it, instead of asking her to.

And yes, Margene should have her own account. What's wrong with her saving some of her money for emergencies or herself or whatever? My husband and I both work. I have my own account, he has his own account, and we have a joint account that we both contribute to every week. This is so if I want something for myself, I can buy it, and he if wants something or himself, he buys it. If either of us want to purchase something for the both of us to use, or if we need to go grocery shopping or buy something for the house, or have an emergency, we use the joint account. But, my account is mine and his account is his, and the joint account is both of ours. I'm positive other married couples and people in serious relationships do this also.

Edit: oh, and I also wanted to add, that no, I don't appreciate Bill. Yes, throughout the series he does do what he can for his family, but he's also very selfish and even though he consults his wives for different things when a decision has to be made, more times than not he does what he wants regardless of what they say. He expects them to agree with him at all times, do what he tells them at all times, and is just a very controlling and domineering husband. My husband doesn't and would never act that way with me, so maybe that's why I dislike Bill so much.

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<< Bill is a flawed but very well meaning man. You are not appreciating him enough. >>

AND, his critics are not living THE PRINCIPAL!
.

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My rant is that I watched the first two seasons, and a few minutes of the third, and then quit in disgust.

A show where nothing of substance happened, and which proceeded in slow motion. The four partners in the marriage choose to live that way, but we were supposed to get excited whether it was a secret or not? Pathetically stupid. Puritanical to boot.

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I agree. I got the vibe also while watching that the writers always had one of the characters say (in almost every episode) "what if we're made public? It'll be the end of us!" and somehow that was supposed to have us on the edge of our seats, biting our nails in anticipation, excitement, anxiety, etc. When I first started watching "Big Love", I wanted to know why, exactly, their lifestyle was illegal as Bill was only legally married to Barb, so I looked it up. Turns out, a man living with more than one adult woman who he's not related to is only illegal in Utah due to the state's history of polygamy. If Bill, Barb, Nikki and Margene were living anywhere else, their lifestyle wouldn't be illegal because Bill is only legally married to one of the women. It's why the Brown's (our real life public polygamist family on the TLC show "Sister Wives") packed up and moved from Utah to Las Vegas recently. They were facing an investigation in Utah but moving to Las Vegas would end all that because their lifestyle isn't illegal there.

If Bill and his wives were so worried about being outed in the beginning of the series, they could've packed up and moved out of Utah. Yes, their whole lives were in Utah, but since Bill's family is oh so important to him, he shouldn't mind sacrificing to get his family out of harm's way. He can run Home Plus from another state. However, Bill is selfish and his number one priority is making money. I mean, how many people actually listen to and repeat to themselves those "mantra" tapes like Bill did? I forget what episode it was in, but he's in his car driving and listening to this tape that's telling him to repeat "I am a magnet to money", "I can make a lot of money" or something like that. As I said, I have no doubt Bill loves his family, but he loves himself more. As far as I'm concerned, his wives have sacrificed way more than he has and it's his own fault he lost Home Plus and the Casino at the end of the series. He ran for state senator and outed his family...what did he think was going to happen?

Edit: I just wanted to say that I mean no offense if anyone reading this does in fact listen to tapes like that. I think the tapes that help people with self esteem issues and the like are very positive and do help people. I'm only referring to the specific type of tape Bill was listening to because it's just more proof of what his number one priority is.

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Don't lie. You hate all people who listen to tapes of any kind. You are a classic tape listener bigot! Shut up and eat ice cream!

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"Don't lie. You hate all people who listen to tapes of any kind. You are a classic tape listener bigot! Shut up and eat ice cream!"

Ok, you got me! I'll only shut up though if it's a chocolate soft serve on a cone dipped in a cherry shell :D

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Margene is one of my most hated characters in television history... She had me pulling out my hair at certain points with her utter stupidity. I haven't witnessed such a dumb character since Peggy Hill...

'What the hell kinda way to act is that?'- Royal Tenenbaum

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I totally agree, Margene is obnoxious! When I watched the series the first time, I loved her and now watching it the second time I could wring her neck! When she sprays "goof be gone" in the dryer and Nicki has to fix it and says "I swear, worse than a child Margene!", all I was thinking was yeah she is worse than a child.

Now before anyone says "but she was so young blah blah blah", if you are mature enough to say I do, then you should be mature enough to act like a wife. I got married really young and was not mature enough at all, and yes I divorced him, and before any judgment, at least I knew I made a big mistake. If this show was about a couple dating each other and they just moved in to their first apartment Margene would still be stupid but it would be forgivable.


Oh, and when she goes with Bill to Nevada for Weber gaming and won't stop crying because he introduced her as his secretary when they ran in to some old LDS friends, I was ready to throw things at the t.v. How Bill and Barb restrained themselves is beyond me, I thought they coddled her way too much. I don't care how much the Weber gaming people like her, it does not change her behaviour nor does it excuse acting like a petulant child who didn't get her way.


In regards to the common pot, if Bill pays for everything (houses, cars, bills, home repairs, health insurance premiums etc etc ETC) and has been doing so for years and on top of that gives them money every month IN ADDITION to the irrevocable trusts set up in his wives' and childrens names, then hell yes her money belongs in the common pot. Margene could have walked out the door at anytime and would have had the trust funds, she was not stuck and she would not have made the contacts to sell that jewelry if it weren't for Bill.

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Well that sounds like a big tasty treat of frozen amazingness.

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Bill's lifestyle is not a federal crime, it is a State crime in Utah, bigamy is the only federal crime and since he legally divorced Barb to legally marry Nikki, he has not committed a crime outside of Utah and the (few) other States that have a cohabitation law, in fact Utah's law is the most stringent allowing imprisonment for up to five years.

http://jurist.org/paperchase/2012/02/federal-judge-allows-challenge-to -utah-anti-polygamy-law.php

FWIW, I think there being a common pot IS common and has nothing to do with Polygamy, I think if you have a family it is part of your obligation to help pay for it but I also think it is prudent for the non legal wives to have some financial independence as well. I don't think any of this would have been an issue if it wasn't for the attitude that Bill uses when he feels a financial squeeze. Instead of having a family meeting where they all discuss the financial situation he just orders a wife to do his bidding, no wonder they all baulk at it.

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[deleted]

It doesn't at any point in time state that Bill is breaking any federal crime and since BL exists in a fictional world based upon our own world in which Utah is quite accurately represented, when the FLDS culture is accurately mimicked and it exists in a real SLC suburb, Sandy. So claiming that somehow there is a made up federal law is nonsensical. I would think there is more likely to be a character being mistaken, rather than there is some sort of made up fictional world law....

In either case you are wrong.

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[deleted]

Why are you assuming she wanted to put him behind bars for Polygamy? She suspected he had his fingers in many illegal pies that WOULD have been a federal offence (in fact lots of the things polygamists are suspected of, fraud, kidnapping underaged girls and such ARE federal crimes)...she was assuming he was one of those because they are 'all the same' and she was so obviously prejudiced and portrayed as being such. I would not read that as there being some mythical TV federal polygamy law, you are reading too much into it dude.

In fact Utah is the 'least' safe State for Bill and family to be in, but it also has the highest concentration of Mormon Fundamentalists so the show follows the real law 100%.

Don't fight the obvious....

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[deleted]

>Why would she think she would feel guilty about putting him behind bars if her ancestors were polygamists if she was putting him behind bars for anything besides Polygamy? Come on now.

Because Polygamy=all social evils....the point was she considered all polygamists the same, doesn't mean that she could arrest him FOR polygamy itself, but she was certain she could arrest him for something.

Turns out she was correct actually, once we find out about Margene, point being, to get a marriage license she may have needed ID, as an non legal wife, she was able to keep that a secret and cause Bill unwittingly to commit a serious crime.
In any lifestyle which fosters a sense of secrecy, there are more likely to be opportunities for immoral or illegal practices. The FBI lady was aware of that and it is clear that THAT combined with anti-polygamy prejudice forced her to make that threat (it was just dramatic posturing anyway, I sure Bill wasn't wetting himself in fear).

Whichever way you look at it, your initial statement of 'Bill is committing a federal crime by being Polygamous' is incorrect. Wouldn't it be easier to just 'fess up about that instead of going on about fictional laws?

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[deleted]

It pretty much seems you are arguing for the sake of arguing now and re-writing the past to some extent, what you wrote was:

by LogiCLGames (Mon Feb 18 2013 22:34:40)

You know, the show wasn't set in real life. It was fictional. In this fictional world, Bill's lifestyle is a federal crime.



This is a baseless assumption extrapolated from one line, said by one character which can be easily interpreted otherwise, in other words you had no basis to make that claim and further argument on the matter is pointless so I am just going to let it go.



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[deleted]

I am a 'she' actually.

And I wouldn't worry about all the edits, I would be surprised if anyone else is reading. ;o))

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[deleted]

>Anyway, a woman is basically a gentle man, is it not?

I will assume you are joking.

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[deleted]

At least Nell wasn't introduced until the third season. Wanda and Joey's baby basically stayed the same age throughout all five seasons.

I agree with you re: Alby's hair.

I could only take watching a few episodes of Sister Wives. It just depresses me too much to know that they're a real family and that there are four (four!) women who are willing to follow around that selfish idiot Kody.

I'm glad to see people are still discovering or re-discovering the show.

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[deleted]

I am watching Big Love on WATCHEVER here in Bonn, Germany. I had to wait between episode three and five about six months so I had no idea what happened to the family. Just finished watching the Final episodes last night. I just adored the show. There was a lot more potential to the story and I was surprised when Bill was shot. I have a lot of Mormon friends in the UK and USA and was interested to how this topic would be handled. I thought the oldest son Ben was going into the Navy. At one point he said he had signed all the papers and would be reporting to his base in four months yet when we saw the family a year after Bill's death, he was sitting at the table with the rest of the family???

Alby's hair was hilarious!!! He looked like Elvis gone mad!! I loved Barb, disliked Nikki!! I was amazed that Bill stayed married to her considering all the trouble she caused within the family. Regarding the "adoption" of her daughter. I was a bit confused as to WHY she had to be legally married to Bill, she was the natural mother and if anything happened to her she could state in her will whom she wanted to be guardian to her daughter. She eventually did this anyway and asked Barb to be guardian of her daughter, if anything happened to her!!!

I am stunned to read there is a reality show called Sister Wives!!! Never seen it.

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[deleted]

He can run Home Plus from another state.


Sure he could but if he were public that business (which appears to only exist within Utah on the show) would tank as all the mormons would instantly boycott it, no more income.

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Watched the first few episodes and then stopped - and considering how out-of-control the storylines got to be all over the place, I'm glad. Inconsistencies and not following what has already been established drives me crazy, so I'm relieved I didn't spend time on this show.

That being said - wasn't plural marriage Barb's idea because she was dying and they brought Nikki in to take care of the children? And maybe the marriage was also a requirement of Nikki's father for her to leave the compound with the purpose of keeping an eye on Bill and his money? And then poor Barb got tricked and lived!

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Alicia obviously you are not in a committed relationship because the idea of putting everything into a common pot is pretty common for most families. Bill was paying for 3 houses as well as feeding like 11 mouths and during the show he had to invest in the casino and then on his political campaign so ya, saying that the family puts their money into a common pot is pretty fair. Its not like bill had a personal account and splurged at the expense of his wives or children. Margene was just a total selfish idiot. The fact that you somehow empathize with her shows me you are probably of a similar mold.

Hey maybe youre not from utah. Im not, but I was raised in a religious household so maybe Im just different but to me the idea of sharing with your family is perfectly fine. Having a personal account for a married woman is totally unneccessary and selfish.

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Actually it's financially sound for a married woman to have her own account. You never know what could happen. Your husband could suddenly leave you. He might mismanage money. Once person could have all the control and the other have no say. Accounts can be frozen.

It's also nice to be able to save up for something special, or to be able to buy something without asking for permission. That's not selfish. Who wants to ask permission everytime they go to lunch or buy a shirt or splurg on a chocolate bar.

Having a joint account and two seperate accounts in a marriage is a good idea.

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I'm sorry but what kind of a comment is that? How can you possibly say to someone that you know nothing about that they are "clearly not in a committed relationship," just because their family works differently than yours? Yes, many people put their money in a common pot. My parents did, growing up. But that doesn't mean that every committed relationship has to work that way. Assuming both members earn, it also makes perfectly logical sense to keep some money separate for personal purchases (clothes, outings, gifts, etc). To cast judgments on another person's marriage is incredibly condescending. Think before you talk.

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I would imagine that the "un-official" wives would be better of with having some sort of personal bank account. I respect that they are all married to each other and can, in theory, rely on each other for support if Bill was to die suddenly. However I think that they deserve some form of reasurrance that they would have a nest-egg of some sort.

Also, I am just finished the 3rd series and am entering the 4th with a major dislike for Bill. He has hurt a lot of people so far; Joey, Sarah, Ana and it really annoyed me that he seemed so uninterested in poor Dons family issues despite the amount of support he provides for Bill. That is just the people that come to mind at the minute. What annoys me is that the character seems to have no real remorse over the consequences of his actions.


You are not a human being, Lola, you are an epidemic.

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because all relationships are the same right?

I still have a separate bank account and I've been with my SO for 13 years now.

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I don't like the pursuit of Ana. She is not pretty, not virtuous, not likable nothing that would want to make a sane man go for her. Margene, either she is just a dumb ass or has some ulterior motive in pushing her on Bill and her sister wives. Bill should have stuck to his decision when he decided that Ana was not for him.
Why pick a women that are giving you headaches even before you are married? Bill is a jack-ass.

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I realize that this thread was started over a year and a half ago, but I thought I would chime in here. What follows is my opinion - I am not trying to change anyone else's feelings - just expressing my thoughts...

I learned long ago that when you "hate" an actor or actress in a movie or series, it is because he/she is doing one helluva job at their profession!!! THAT is great acting!!!

During the course of this series I was always glued to the TV on Sunday night's because I fell in love w/ Big Love. The acting was spot-on! The writing - up until season five - was brilliant and the entire show was such a delight.

There were times when it was like a car wreck that you just can't help but look at as you drive past, but it was an exhilarating series.

I always loved watching Margene - she was such a joy - but I also loved the so-called "bad guys" like Bill, Roman, Hollis Green, Rhonda and Nikki. The series was everything you want in a series: Great writing, great acting and very compelling stories that just pulled us all in. I was very disappointed when season 5 played out. I felt it could have - and should have - ended better.

But overall, this is a series that I still go back and re-watch, particularly the first three season's. This was acting and writing at its finest! Enjoy it for what it was! And remember, if you watch someone on screen and they make you feel hatred for them - then they have succeeded in doing their job!

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I definitely think it's financially important for the "unofficial" wives keep separate accounts, they could be left out in the cold with children to think of. Actually, it's practical for any wife.

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Good point. I often wonder what would have happened if Bill had died and Nikki had the financial control over the family. Barb was right to insist that there were financial limitations when Bill legally married her. There could have been two additional series just discovering how selfish Nikki could be as "Queen Bee" in the household. I adored the programme and basically had a Big Love Marathon when I discovered series 4 and 5 had been added by WATCHEVER recently.

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I agree with the OP:

I was completely done with Bill once he threw Don under the bus and forced him to resign and take the blame for being a Polygamist. This is the guy who was your right hand for so many years and never done you wrong and this is how you repay him? That was probably worse than forcing Ben to leave the house because Margene couldn't control her own urges.

Niki: Waking up Cara-Lynn at night to tell her what she said was insane. She felt threatened that CL's teacher didn't like her but was into CL instead and that was CL's fault? and she didn't deserve love.. What a loon..






Jesus would support Universal Health Care

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Its interesting to read people hating on Nicki. Like someone said above, it means Chloe Sevigny gave an exceptional performance.

The audience is meant to be disgusted and even enraged by Nicki's behavior.

Bottom line, Nicki Grant is the ultimate victim, not only of the pathological evil of the polygamist sect, but of the hypocrisy within modern day Mormonism.

She is the most interesting and most compelling character on the program. Nicki is my favorite character.

I'm a civilian, I'm not a trout

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I actually found Alby more likeable than Nikki.




Jesus would support Universal Health Care

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The scene where Alby interrupts Sarah's first kiss is spine chilling. One of the greatest scenes from BL.

I'm a civilian, I'm not a trout

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But look at where her story arc ends. Okay, I freely admit it was stupid of me to become concerned about Cara-Lynn, who's not a character at all, only a prop. But I did, and I was disgusted when her story ended with the other characters suddenly dropping her and feeding into Nikki's incredible, bottomless narcissism: "Oh, Nikki, you've tormented your daughter into what's obviously a near-suicidal depression, you poor thing! That's just awful, that after the way you've treated your daughter you actually feel bad!" I despised Nikki as I don't think I have any other television character except possibly Elliot Stabler. She felt bad, she deserved to feel bad, and I was glad she felt bad.

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Nicki is permanently damaged goods, and she says so herself. Margene and Barb are damaged as well, as are all the compound women. That's seems to be what the show is about, and the dark outcomes in Season 5 represent the ultimate consequences of not only polygamy, but the paternalistic zealotry of the LDS world.

Yes, Nicolette Grant is a despicable character, but she's also fascinating. Chloe Sevigny's performance is without equal on BL. That's saying a lot.

I'm a civilian, I'm not a trout

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I learned long ago that when you "hate" an actor or actress in a movie or series, it is because he/she is doing one helluva job at their profession!!! THAT is great acting!!!
Sometimes, sure. If you hate the character in this role, but love the character they play in this other role, that's probably a result of good or great acting.

If you hate them in this one role, and hate them in this other role, and hate them in yet another role, especially one that's supposed to be likable or sympathetic, that is NOT good acting. That's either bad, one note acting, or there is something about the performer that pokes the "Arggg! Kill it with fire!" sector of your brain.

I've seen no evidence that Sevigny is on the Good Acting side of that division.

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I stopped watching after a couple of seasons because there isn't any character I liked enough to keep watching. I don't really need characters I can relate to or even like to watch a tv show but there has to be a good story and Big Love really doesn't do much on that front. It's episode after episode of Bill in a dick contest with Roman and Albert, the compound people being super freaks so that Bill's family look like good polygamists and characters making stupid choices over and over.

Nikki is annoying, selfish, arrogant, bitchy, childish, insecure and just plain stupid really. She's probably the worst if it wasn't for Bill.
Margene is acting like a 12 year old. Barb is a lot of nothing really. And Bill is a jerk who cannot imagine there is anything or anyone that matters more than his whims and moronic schemes.
I'm not even going into the vast gallery of mustache twirling villains who are so predictable, they are laughable, and supporting characters from extended families who do the same thing again and again.

How can shows like these last 5 years, I'll never know.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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I Agree with you 💯 👍.. another thing that annoyed me about Bill.. was he not only dated Anna behind his wives back.. but he also slept with her before they were married. I find him extremely selfish. Only thing I disagree with, is I wasn't a fan of Barb.. but didn't like Nikki either. My favs were Margene & Sarah 😊

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