In the movie/book, both of them have shown that the Japanese soldiers have tortured and ripped Iggy apart. It sounded wrong. It's like the book/movie were implying that the Japanese would do this thing, not Americans. It's kinda racist. I mean ANY race can do stuff like that, but why only Japanese?
shareIn several books, movies it is shown that the Germans tortured and committed genocide against various peoples and races. Sounds kind of racist against whites/anglos. Do you agree?
shareActually, this gets to be exasperating in our society today. How do you respond to something like this without having to resort to historical and cultural dissertations?
No, it's not racist. You have to be educated and know something about Japanese culture and mindset of the times to understand how they conducted and prosecuted this war against their enemies. At the same time, you need to be able to know the difference between cultures committing atrocities as a rule vs. cultures committing atrocities as an exception. Every society has it's share of "bad seeds" but that doesn't mean that the society endorses cruelty. The Japanese not only practiced cruelty as a whole, they endorsed it. Read up on the Rape Of Nanking and the Bataan Death March. Get some perspective on the Japanese Samuria/Bushido mentality and what is perceived to be weakness in men/soldiers who would surrender to their enemies. The Marines typically reacted in a way to their enemies after they would discover the atrocities and cruelty in which their enemy, the Japanese, treated Americans when captured. Americans, as a culture, still had this notion, even in war, that fairness, respect, and kindness were virtues that should govern the prosecution of a war.
You are an American, are you not? And if you aren't, then you need to know that thats the way Americans - as a rule - fight their wars. If you are an American, do you not think that the compassion you would show your enemies is also a characteristic that most Americans share with you and would thus fight wars in that manner?
So, no it isn't racist to show our enemies for who they are - be they Japanese, German, or Muslim (i.e., sawing heads off their enemies).
well spoken and eloquent
share[deleted]
rfa77, I acknowledge your comments about the Japanese mindset, and how it differs to the Occidental way. I am a European, and have travelled to the States twice and enjoyed my time there, having met a lot of great people and seen some wonderful sights. I am also Anti Bush, and against the justification for invading Iraq. I am not against the Republican party, or under the impression that the Democrats are the only answer.
I try to be objective and not group individuals into a packages and then brand them good/ bad/ right or wrong. There are ignorant and rude, caring and well mannered attitudes in every person and society. It is after all, human nature. And I'm not for one moment saying that I am holier than thou and perfect, I have hang ups, prejudices and irrational behaviour also.
The thing that irks me however, is when you say "Americans, as a culture (treat people) fairness, respect and kindness".
90% of the individuals I met whilst in the States did, the other 10% I avoided or spent minimal time with.
But the culture? I found to an extent at the time, and far more so now, (under the current administration) one of discriminatory, superior and bullish.
How can you use these three words to describe the health and social security systems in your own country and the fact that segregation lasted so long?
(never mind the outrageous civilian death toll in Iraq, indeterminate detentions in Guantanamo Bay and state sanctioned torture flights?- although I'd rather you responded to the health/ social issues than focused on these other points)
well the Japanese were pretty sick puppies back then. They were far worst then the Germans, Americans, and Russians.
At Iwo Jima then fragged and murdered their on civilians just so they wouldn't talk. The Japanese purposly aimed and kill the medics even though they were suppose to be noncombatants. The Japanese executed their prisoners in the most grusome ways as possible.
hey were also responisble for the Rape and Murder of 1,000,000 women. They already killed in Raped 350,000 women in Nanking China. Which btw is caled the Rape of Nan King,
So yeah, the Japanese were pretty sick puppies back then.
As I posted on another thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Mass_killings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Experiments_on_humans_and_biological_warfare
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Use_of_chemical_weapons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Preventable_famine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Torture_of_POWs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Cannibalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Forced_labour
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Comfort_women
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Major_incidents
Next time read your history books before you make such a stupid statement.
In the movie/book, both of them have shown that the Japanese soldiers have tortured and ripped Iggy apart. It sounded wrong. It's like the book/movie were implying that the Japanese would do this thing, not Americans. It's kinda racist. I mean ANY race can do stuff like that, but why only Japanese?
the movie didn't say that the Japanese are the only ones capable of torture. It simply attempts to describe one particular instance thereof, which the Japanese did in this case. As we well know Americans or anyone could do it.
shareWell...in Letters From Iwo Jima, it showed an American shooting two POWs who had already been trussed up. Is that racist for white people?
shared-graph, on Thu Nov 1 2007 07:19:47, asked:
In the movie/book, both of them have shown that the Japanese soldiers have tortured and ripped Iggy apart. It sounded wrong. It's like the book/movie were implying that the Japanese would do this thing, not Americans. It's kinda racist. I mean ANY race can do stuff like that, but why only Japanese?
Omg another idiot who hasn't read a history book. The Japanese were the most barbaric soldiers in history. It just amazes me how so many people try to deny this or simply label it as racist. It's a fact, get it through your head. There were more Japanese soldiers than any other who committed horrendous war crimes and tortured more innocent civilians than you can imagine. Even the most unreliable source Wikipedia has information on this.
Anyway, I thought this movie was unusually honest (although boring) that did not glorify American soldiers more than it had to. It clearly showed that American soldiers did commit war crimes as well - although most well-educated people know that the war crimes committed by the Japanese were in a whole different level.
And what happened to Iggy was FACT, IT REALLY HAPPENED. It was a big deal, why wouldn't the director put this into the movie?
Why didn't the movie show American soldiers torturing a Japanese like they did to Iggy?--> Let's see, because I doubt they did torture a Japanese in that SICK way, that's why.
And what happened to Iggy was FACT, IT REALLY HAPPENED. It was a big deal, why wouldn't the director put this into the movie?Moreover, had any Americans actually behaved like that they would have been arrested & court martialed on the spot. Even the practice amongst some Marines of extracting gold fillings from the mouths of dead Japanese with their Kabar's would be dealt with severely if an officer caught them in the act. This the key difference between American & Japanese forces. Not that both sides didn't engage in savage, brutal treatment but that the Japanese military actively encouraged & celebrated barbarous behaviour from its troops. The US did not.
Why didn't the movie show American soldiers torturing a Japanese like they did to Iggy?--> Let's see, because I doubt they did torture a Japanese in that SICK way, that's why.
^ Exactly. I think you could almost say that it was the mindset of the Japanese as a whole. I don't know if they thought it was "okay" to do it, but they sure didn't do anything about it at all. Putting aside the encouragement of their government - I'm more surprised that not even normal people, like civilians, in Japan didn't show much outrage over the things the soldiers were doing. If American soldiers HAD committed an act like what had happened to Iggy, I'm sure there would have been a riot among civilians if even the slightest word got out. But I'm not saying Americans don't commit horrible acts, they do - but like I said, it's in a different level.
Was there any negative opinion about the actions of the Japanese soldiers among Japanese civilians? I don't know, but I sure hope so.
Moreover, had any Americans actually behaved like that they would have been arrested & court martialed on the spot.
That's very unlikely considering that execution of prisoners by front line troops was not at all uncommon, and widely practiced in the Pacific due to incidents like the one depicted. Mind you, if a US soldier started to torture a Japanese prisoner like the Japanese routinely did Allied personnel, his mates would likely stop him and might have him evacuated to the rear as an obvious psychological casualty - then just shoot the "Jap".
Over sensitiveness and an exagerated "politically-correct awareness" is making America take steps backwards.
shareNo, it's not PC thinking that's taking America down. It's lack of critical thinking, which is exhibited by both the PC types and the uber patriots.
shareMy grandfather fought in the Pacific as well as my great-uncle. Both wen in fresh from the depression. Both said they did not take many Japanese prisoners; one because of Japan's Bushida code where death was better than surrender and to go down fighting. Once instance they shot what appeared to be surrendering japanese soldiers, that had weapons (grenades, pistols,knives, etc.) strapped to their backs as a ploy. So after one or two fake surrenders they ended up shooting first and asking questions later. My great-uncle who was friendly and lovable easy-going guy, collected some gold teeth. His reasoning was since they were already dead, they did not need the gold teeth anymore and they had vaule. I admit to hearing this from them and that is second hand, but they never deviated from the stories and were not braggards. They spoke of things matter-of-factly. From a lot of other WWII veterans I have talked about war more than any other of their experiences changed them.
shareMy father likewise served in the South Pacific and to this day, this gentle, intelligent, regular church goer and wonderful father, will not buy anything made by the Japanese nor watch a Japanese made film. He knows that what he encountered on the battlefield is not truly reflective of the Japanese people and he believes in forgiveness. But the cruelty and disrespect that he witnessed scarred him for life. He went from a Catholic school boy on the streets of Chicago, to a soldier who would shoot the enemy on sight because to fail to do so would result in your own death or the death of your comrades.
"I'd never ask you to trust me. It's the cry of a guilty soul."
Because what happened to Iggy in the movie actually happened in real life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Ignatowski#Death
If it hadn't happened to a close friend of Doc, it may not have been portrayed at all in the story, but as Doc is one of the main characters in the story I don't think they could have just left it out.