Where they said:
"they wont stop, none of them are"
"so much for no man left behind"
He died in the ocean? o_O
believe so....the boats didn't stop and I think it is mentioned here
sharei was a bit upset by that scene (event) as well....from what i've read about this, they did leave that guy in the ocean and i have read nothing that says he lived out the day..
IF that was the case, it as at BEST, horrible planning on the army/navy's part to not having a plan in dealing with the very real world possibility that at least ONE guy out of thousands might fall off/jump off...at WORST, it's just straight barbaric...
if there was no set protocol in place fine...but if no one had the presence of mind to i dunno, throw in a small rubber raft and a paddle so that guy can at least have a fighting chance, that's ridiculous.
it is better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it
Surely there would of been one ship at the very end of the line, which could of picked him up. But there was no way the big ones at the front were going to do that.
shareThink. This is a major campaign with a multitude of ships churning up the ocean. There is no way any one ship could have broken formation to spend the time to pick up one marine or sailor. The chances of even finding him would be, at best, remote. So the idea that a ship could have been following behind to pick up any men who fell off their ship is ludicrous. This is not a swimming pool but a vast sea.
"I'd never ask you to trust me. It's the cry of a guilty soul."
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I asked someone who was a naval officer in Vietnam about this. He told me that there was a quarter-turn manuever that could position a ship so that it could pick up a person who fell over board without breaking formation-but he did n't know what happended in this incident.
shareIt is called the Williamson turn.
We practice it all the time in the Navy.
No one is saying they are not capable of doing so. We are saying that it was impossible due to the formation and standing orders.
BTW.. ANY maneuver would be breaking formation. That's the very definition of it if you thought about it!
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!
throw him a raft, a life preserver with a water-proof can of biscuits, a pack of gum, spit on him something though....have ship #1 radio ship #15 that's 14 miles behind and say "hey, in about an hour you're gonna see a guy flappin' his arms, when you do, throw him a rope"
c'mon
look...if this really happened so be it..but i need proof...
it is better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it
Yes yes... there would be some attempt. A passing vessel would attempt throwing a raft or preserver (not a line) .
If possible a following escort destroyer would then make a pickup attempt but thats not likely feasable. They cannot go darting into the formation without risking collision and by the time the formation has passed the individual is likely already drowned. They would check to find out though. The point is that none of the main body ships could stop or pull out of formation for them. It would endanger thousands for that one man.
Why not throw a line as I noted before? Clearly you never served aboard a ship. Attempting to grab a line and be dragged aboard anything other than a STOPPED ship is pointless and suicidal.
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!
i hope it is VERY clear that i have never served on a ship, i'd be very confused otherwise..
and following your lead, i have to say it's clear you aren't using common sense..perhaps it is pointless and suicidal to us, sitting her in front of pc's to use a line...but to the man already in the water, bobbing like a cork, to him i'm sure he'd be begging for nothing more than a CHANCE of grabbing a line...considering his alternative is sure death, right? does that stand to reason?
it is better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it
" i have to say it's clear you aren't using common sense..perhaps it is pointless and suicidal to us, sitting her in front of pc's to use a line...but to the man already in the water,"
I AM using common sense. My response is NOT one of an armchair quarterback sitting in front of a pc. That would be YOU, the one WITHOUT any shipboard experiance. My response is from my having been -there-done -that -got -the -whole -seabag -to -prove -it.
I HAVE served aboard naval ships at sea. I HAVE served in linehandling details for various evolutions from underway replenishment to launching and recovering small boats.
I am TELLING YOU as one with experiance that trying to drag a man aboard from a vessel at formation speed IS suicidal and thus pointless.
Any attempts to do so from moving vessels is done when the ship has slowed to bare steerage way. That means dropping out of formation which they WILL NOT DO.
What they would do is as I already stated, try throwing a preserver or some other floatation device. Then a rearguard escort will attempt to locate and make the pickup AFTER the formation has passed.
What is CRYSTAL CLEAR is that a person with NO experiance is calling a person WITH experiance as having lack of common sense. Wrong. The lack of common sense is on YOUR head. Not mine.
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!
I don't think that the commenter on here meant any deliberate insult. I think there was simply a miscommunication between you two.
With that said, I know your frustration. I've been in the USAF for 12 years so far and am currently an enlisted aircrew member whose platform is a C-130. I can't tell you how many times I've read online comments from people who are misinformed about USAF operations. The key is to take a deep breath and explain your position as clearly as possible.
The Army wasn't on Iwo. It was Marines.
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Once upon a time, we had a love affair with fire.
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Of course he died in the Ocean. The U.S. Army and Navy was conducting a full-scale invasion of a Japanese-held island. They weren't going to slow that down for one guy who falls overboard.
shareThe scene was included to demonstrate that the phrase 'leave no one behind' was a lie.
Its that man again!!
This scene left me astonished, as well. And reading here, it was a true episode, and I guess it was not an isolated example.
I was thinking about "Black Hawk Down" and the motto "no one gets left behind".
Maybe it's a marines' motto but not a navy's motto.
I'm Winston Wolf, I solve problems
And no dream is ever... just a dream...
You would have to bring any rescue ship to a halt in order to pick up a man in the water, as has been pointed out, with all the attendant risks of collision and breaking up the formation. On top of that is the consideration that any ship that stops during wartime would be vulnerable to either air or submarine attack - a sitting target, in other words. Never mind the fact that the Japanese air force and submarines were a spent force by this time, the standing orders would be not to risk the ship and everyone aboard for a single individual in the water. There might be designated rescue ships at the rear of the formation to pick up survivors of sunken ships, but by the time the entire formation had passed, this particular individual would have drowned (assuming he hadn't been run down by any of the other ships). As for the motto - it sounds good until it's exposed to harsh military reality - no CO worth his salt would risk the lives of his men on any suicidal attempt to bring back wounded individuals. It's the kind of motto that is based more on propaganda value than on actual reality. Sure, if the odds are good or even 50/50, then an attempt might well be made to bring back wounded (or even dead) comrades. If not, forget it.
shareUnder FAQ: "Why didn't they stop for the man who fell overboard?" I found this: Several reasons:The last ships in the convoy and the trailing destroyers would then try to locate him and pick him up. In fact, usually one merchant ship or destroyer at the tail end of the convoy was given the task of trying to pick up any man overboard. The chances of surviving after falling off a ship in convoy were small despite the best of efforts. The ocean is big and one man insignificant. Pilots who ditched next to destroyers or carriers were often never found, despite men seeing them get out of their planes OK. According to the book "The Rising Sun: The Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire, 1936-1945" by John Toland, the man was in fact picked up by a following support ship.
Here is a link to the FAQ page: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418689/faq?ref_=tt_faq_sm#.2.1.3
Edit: added link
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