MovieChat Forums > Down in the Valley (2005) Discussion > The Aryan, the Jew, and the Cowboy *** S...

The Aryan, the Jew, and the Cowboy *** SPOILER ***


*** SPOILER ***

1) David Morse is a real aryan, a 6' 4" tall blue-eyed blonde, who plays a law officer, he is the real cowboy.

2) Edward Norton is a jew (in the film), a wannabe cowboy, he dresses and acts like one, but in fact he is a fake cowboy.

3) Evan Rachel Wood, the aryan girl, seduces Edward Norton, but Edward completely misses his integration in the aryan family. David Morse rejects him.

4) Edward Norton goes crazy and postal and dies.

Hidden message of the movie : Jew interracial marriage with Aryan is devoted to failure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscegenation#In_Israel

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Wow you totally Understood the point of this movie!




Wait....... nope.

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> Wow you totally Understood the point of this movie!

Probably, this is the most coherent explanation of the story.
If not, please explain why Morse rejects Norton so badly while Norton is sane and nice ?

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I think the David Morse character didn't explain his suspicion very well. He called Harland White Trash, but I think what he really meant to say is that he could tell that Harland is a liar, a thief, and a swindler. Harland was double-talking from the start. When he said he was from South Dakota, sort of. And worked on ranches, some in the area. Maybe "ranch" was his code name for prison... Or maybe the "kind of" meant that he was basically just borrowing horses from local ranches on occasion.

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Alright, Martin's not a Jewish name. What was Harlan's real family name?

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Right, how Morse knows that Harlan's a jew? Sixth sense, you'd say? Bull.

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I think it's important to remember that Wade is a Corrections Officer in the film (I assumed he's a prison guard). He says he 'knows [Harlan's] type', and I imagine he would -- he's dealt with criminals pretending to be things they're not, with a slick story to tell, EVERY DAY. I accepted this, assuming that someone with Wade's background would have a sort of 'radar' for picking up bulls--t, and that from the very first time Harlan opened his mouth, Wade's 'radar' went off. He's used to people lying to him all day, and he spotted Harlan immediately for what he was

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David Morse is a real aryan
David Morse is from India?


Movies I've Seen: http://imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=25003655

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Harlan went to a Jewish temple to find his father, Joe (who abandoned him when he was little), on the directions of Joe's neighbor. Then he broke into Joe's home, where many things from the Jewish culture could be seen.

I just assumed that his father converted some time after leaving Harlan's family, but I guess it's equally possible that he was always Jewish.

Anyone remember what Harlan's real name was? I only remember "Martin," not the full name.



But I agree with chickypoo53.

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Ridiculous assumption you read into films way too much.

*I saw in your eyes that you hate the world, I hate it too...*

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Actually i also think Joe was his father, and that was indeed a jew. But what the point was, i dont really know. Im not sure what to think of some parts of the movie. I saw it without subtitles, maybe thats the problem..

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First of all, you had better read up on what an Aryan is because you are as offbase as a certain mustache-wearing historical figure. He didn't understand either.

Maybe it was Edward Norton's horrific acting portrayal of a mean, nasty, conniving, murderous drifter who was rather like Eddie Haskell gone really, really bad that had me so distracted. I didn't get the Jewish connection at all. Perhaps the film had me nearly braindead by that stage due to its seemingly endless length and very poor storytelling. There were so many gaps in the plot and so many unbelievable actions by the characters that I missed the link between the temple and Harlan. Generally, I catch details, so I know that I was profoundly bored and/or irritated by that time.

I shall say that this theory is one of the most bizarre interpretations of a movie I have ever read or heard, and I've read some very offbeat ones.
I don't buy the "Aryan/Jewish" theory.

I think Wade sized up Harlan the way anyone would have if they were fairly level-headed. Someone pointed out what Wade does for a living. Heck! I didn't trust Harlan's act at the service station~an older man who would take off with a carful of teenagers because a girl looked at him, throwing away a job. What a weirdo, people! I've encountered smarmy guys like that, even when I was October's age, and I have been relatively sheltered throughout my life. If I could size them up, why couldn't she? Maybe it was the pot and liquor.

Think about it: What in the heck was such an old guy doing with a girl so young?! Even if he never knew about the sex part, it's rather personal that a guy she just met buys her a dress. Right about there, major warning bells and sirens should have gone off for Wade! To me, October should have been put away for her own and everyone else's good. She was self-destructive, neglected her little brother when she was supposed to be taking care of him, and never showed one solid reason why she treated her stepfather the way she did. They showed no reason, so she seemed nearly as crazy as Harlan! I didn't believe the flipflop the script has her doing, going from frenzied and foul-mouthed to "Oh! I don't want to leave home!" Get real! If anyone looked as if she'd take off at a moment's notice, "Tobe" did. I didn't like her, and I didn't like Harlan, not one teensy bit.

Again, that's one very weird theory. You sort of remind me of Woody Allen films in which he looks for anti-Semitism all of the time~~thank goodness not in all of his movies. I wonder how you would interpret other films?

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> I didn't trust Harlan's act at the service station~an older man who would take
> off with a carful of teenagers because a girl looked at him, throwing away a
> job. What a weirdo, people!

Then call me a weirdo. I'd go anywhere Evan Rachel Wood asked me.

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wait a minute, the boy was 13, not 6, she wasnt neglecting him, he should has a life of his own at that age, i mean have friends to hang out with. that wasnt explained, why he didnt have any friends. its not like they lived in the desert. i also wish it was explain how wade got custody if he wasnt their real father. going into her room at night because he is afraid of the dark...at 13??? the father was quite correct to be alarmed, although he should have taken more steps to get the boy therapy.

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Norton recites a prayer in Hebrew the night of his first date with October

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Norton is DEFINITELY Jewish in this movie.

It's been covered many times in detail.

Harlan's real name is Martin. His father is Joe. Joe is an orthodox Jew, and Martin (Harlan) was watching him in the synagogue.

Harlan breaks into his father's house. While he is there he sees an old picture of himself with his family, and he puts it face down.

When Harlan is on drugs walking in the middle of traffic, and one of the black guys says "preach it, bother", Harlan starts praying in Hebrew.

Do you really need anymore evidence?

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absolutely brilliant observation. Spider-man 3 was also a reference to how African Americans (hence the black costume) are more aggressive and arrogant that other people.
_________________________

This IS a tasty burger!

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I can't tell if you're kidding or not.

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I think you people are digging way to far into a crappy movie. It wasn't that bad, but extremely dull. He has no motive to shoot her, he takes Twig away, he sits in his appartment and plays with a lariat...this movie is a sream of monotonous events that have no substance and no meaning. The movie tries too hard to do the whole Taxi Driver thing with Harlan in his appartment with guns and writing letters and being lonely but it isn't Taxi Driver! The MAIN problem with this move is that it didn't commit to anything!!! Think about it. You get all these new low budget drug movies that try way too hard to do the Pacino thing in Scarface but they fail because they don't commit AND it has already been done better.

stop trying to analyze Jewish themes in this movie; the synagogue/jewish theme was a result of bad script writing. A lot in this film is the result of bad script writing. Notice how hard it tried to have quotable one-liners like Taxi Driver!?!?

Don't take me the wrong way; I'm a HUGE Edward Norton fan...his performances in Primal Fear and Amrican History X deserved him oscars...but every good actor makes mistakes (Al Pacino was in Gili, Robert DeNiro did Showtime, Kevin Spacey did the new Superman).

I also agree with people about the performances. I think Edeward Norton had great moments in this movie, along with a few cheesy ones, but the acting in this movie was the only redeeming quality.

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I got the feeling Harlan was adoprted by Joe (Jewish family). My suspect born when Harlan warned Lonnie about being assigned to social services and/or to guest family. He was talking as if he was involved in the past, and if i am not wrong he mentioned also life in a kind of social institutes. This could explain the total identity confusion of Harlan. He don't know where is from, he realized his family wasn't his natural family, then he choosed the heroic Cowboy role to play... Well it is just an idea i got.

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You're more f_ucked up than Harlan.

Ironically, this isn't even ironic at all.

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I don't necessarily agree with the OP, but I do think it's an interesting idea.

And to the person who corrected their use of the word Aryan: I'm certain they meant Aryan in the sense that Hitler (incorrectly) used it, as the blonde-haired, blue-eyed, German "master race".

I do think that, in creating his cow-boy persona, he was attempting to put as much distance between himself and his past as possible, so he traded in his Jewish heritage for that of the all-American cowboy.

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Exactly what I meant.

It is so obvious that Wade (David MORSE) is the real cowboy of the story (is a law officer, has a real gun) and that Harlan Fairfax Caruters (Edward NORTON) is fleeing from his origins by trying to integrate the cowboy model/aryan family.

All his attempts fail and he goes postal.

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This simplistic "explanation" misses the point.
There are much too many aspects in this movie for this type of cranky reductionism. It is in fact an excellent work of art; i was so pleased at its subtlety and richness.

I understood the jew family he visited was a temporary foster home Edward Norton had been when he was a kid. The pain of rejection ("people don't want grown kids but small babies they can raise from scratch" he says to Twigs) created a special bond with Joe, in the affective (affectionative ?) desert his life appears to have been (sorry for my english).

The guy just doesn't have anybody in his life, and he never did until he met Tobe.

As for the rejection from the overprotective father, true, he is somehow in love with his beautiful and high-spirited daughter, and cannot let her go. Keep in mind that she's only 17, Edward Norton looks almost 30 and is a wanderer. Not too reassuring for a father.

Otherwise, i wonder where he learned his cow-boy abilities (throw a lasso, ride a horse, whisper to a horse's ear ;-). I think he really was a cow-boy in some mountain ranch (hence the title).

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I was waiting for them to delve more into what was apparently Harlan's Jewish background...but they didnt. Under those circumstances I don't know why they touched upon it at all.

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