Confused!!!!(Spoile rs) - Down in the Valley (2005) Discussion

[–] goshampoourself 17 years ago

i think that Joe was "Harlan's" father. i'm pretty sure that's who he was shown robbing after he got kicked out of the church. but i might be wrong.

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[–] glitter_girl89 17 years ago

hmmm that makes sense i guess, was it meant to be a flashback or something?

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[–] Zeeshopper 17 years ago

Harlan's real name is Martin.

When he was in that house, robbering, he found a box with "Martin" written on the box. He also looked at a picture (that was in the box) of himself when he was a kid. Also, when he was in that chruch, he was looking for his father.

T.

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[–] belliecjk 17 years ago

I watched the movie last night and this is what I think. Something happened in the past and Harlans father left. He got remarried and had other kids judging from the photo. Harlan doesn't say what happened. He doesn't mention his mother so I don't know if the father left him and his mom.

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[–] akashaearth 17 years ago

The way I interpreted it is that Harlan is determined to communicate with his father, whether through his delusions or in reality.

In other words, I felt like he broke into that house, and left the letter because he was delusional. NOT because that was actually his father's house.

Could be wrong, but that's my interpretation.

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[–] alkamal_r 17 years ago

But he did find his picture in there, how do you explain that?

Ironically, this isn't even ironic at all.

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[–] coprogirl 17 years ago

Kids; that wasn't a church. It's called a synagogue.

"'Scuse me while I whip this out"
Blazing Saddles

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[–] movie_mom_NOVA 17 years ago

I agree - the Joe thing was the most unexplained part of the film. Here's my take: (1) When Harlan is walking down the middle of the street after he and Tobe and her friends have been to the club where they took some drugs, a Black guy gets out of his car and says "Preach it, Brother" (or something like that), and Harlan starts reciting a prayer in Hebrew. (2) When Harlan asks Lonnie how old he is and Lonnie says 13, Harlan says that's the same age he was when his father ran out on him. 13 is the age Jewish boys have their Bar Mitzvah. (3) It's not a church, it's a synagogue. (4) Harlan is Martin. The cop says so later in the movie when he's helping Wade find Lonnie. So I think Harlan had some big rift with his father around his faith (or lack thereof) and his father kicked him out and he had to go to juvenile detention. So he's particularly sensitive to kids like Tobe an Lonnie, who don't have a father (Wade is their step-dad), and are lonely and needy.

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[–] deltajuliet 17 years ago

Sounds about right.

I think his father might have been a rabbi, too, but I'm not sure on this one.

This is a battle of wits, and you're totally unarmed!

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[–] tylerrabbit 17 years ago

I think you nailed it, movie_mom_NOVA, except one elemet: It's the guy who gets out of the car and hugs Harlan who says "As sala'amu alaikum" a Muslim greeting which menas "Peace be upon you."

This is no way detracts from your overall theories, which i completely agree with..

---

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[–] martijnvos16 17 years ago

Jeah thats what i thought too. At one side the psycho 'Harlan' because of his father leaving him alone because of a faith issue. And on the other side the good 'Harlan' who really loved those kids. Not only Tobe but the kid two because of his history ..
Did make me think.. good movie

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[–] Pennst411 17 years ago

"As sala'amu alaikum"?? I thought he was saying something about wanting some bacon. That totally threw me off.

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[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] AccidntlTourist 13 years ago

I think that is probably about it.

"So he's particularly sensitive to kids like Tobe an Lonnie, who don't have a father (Wade is their step-dad), and are lonely and needy."

I would add (with my guess) that the reason he left a note for "Joe" is because Joe was his "foster father" (remember how Harlan warns Lonnie about how bad things can be in a foster home?); just as the kids refer to their step-father as Wade - one more area in which Harlan relates to the kids.

The kid's father is a "jailer" - literally, mean and gruff.

I'd be willing to bet that Joe was mean and gruff to his foster child - Martin, as well; probably a big time disciplinarian. And, thru his rebellion, Martin/Harlan ended up going down a bad path.

So, in each family the kids felt alienated, unloved and adrift.

In a deleted scene (from the early pedestrian bridge scene with Tobe) Lonnie drops a large bolt & nut down onto traffic and hits a car - nearly causes a pile up. "There, but for the grace of god . . ." - Lonnie could have found himself in lock-up.

Part of this tale, to me, is about the randomness of how things can turn out.

I've never been arrested, but by golly - when I was a teen I did a thing or two (minor)that could have put me in jail. And I seriously entertained thoughts of committing some pretty serious crime.

Part of this story is about "good decision making" and part of it is about dumb luck.

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[–] queenshan 17 years ago

Joe was Harlan's father. And the whole Joe aspect of the film establishes Harlan as a Prodigal (Lost) Son. But it doesn't follow up on it at all.

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[–] kamillia 17 years ago

I agree, i guess Joe is his father. I enjoyed this "Joe" thing in the movie. Sounds like a little voice, the only thing that could still connect him to reality. Memory, you can't erase that easily, even if you are the biggest schizo in world !

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[–] joolztoolz 17 years ago

I think I get it now. He's from the Valley. He grew up for a time in a middle class Jewish home. He's not even a cowboy and probably doesn't even have a real accent. Remember in the car? Somebody said they new people from South Dakota and he didn't sound like them. He keeps saying he worked on a ranch when there are no ranches around.

He never grew up--he plays "cowboy" by himself. It looks like he's re-enacting some movie by himself in his hotel room. He keeps trying to get the lines just right.

He can rope a chair, ride a horse and shoot his six guns but that doesn't mean he ever worked on a ranch. Its hard to say. He only spent a year in jail so what he was doing for the rest of the time is anybody's guess.

He thinks he's a cowboy--but he's just probably disowned by his family a long time ago. He says something about being an Indian at one point.

Which makes it even creepier if you think about it. I mean, if he's not even a cowbody at all, then he's really out to lunch.

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[–] frankstallone1 13 years ago

Based on the comments here, it is pretty obvious that some people don't give their full attention to movies when they watch them, and then come to message boards confused, asking for explanations.
This was all pretty obvious had you paid attention to the movie.

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[–] Rogeriops 12 years ago

When I was young I had the habit of watching the same movie twice in the theater.... 20 years ago it was possible without paying any extra ticket!! It used to be an pleasant surprise to see the film with an extra comprehension of each scene!! I said all this arguing its pretty normal not to get all the intricacies of the whole movie. Ask for explanations dont mean that you havent paid attention to the film.....

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[–] frankstallone1 11 years ago

Rogeriops, Watching multiple times to pick out subtleties to get better understanding is good, and should be done before going to a message board to ask for explanations, as that is lazy and furthers my point.. But in this case, there was no subtlety, it was as obvious as a slap in the face had the OP been focused on the movie

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[–] JackSlaterIV 12 years ago

'jpe' had me thinking about taxi driver, and not a real character

Angel : In 243 years I've loved exactly one person.

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