MovieChat Forums > Down in the Valley (2005) Discussion > Could have been brilliant

Could have been brilliant

posted 18 years ago by honda4takter
22 replies | jump to latest

Don't get me wrong, I really liked it, especially at the beginning. The scene in the ocean was beautiful and I really liked Norton's character, well played and easy to relate to. But then he decides to [spoiler]shoot the girl[/spoiler], and at that point it was no longer possible for me to feel any sympathy for the protagonist. I'm all for independent movies that take a different approach, but this just didn't work. If they wanted a quirky feel and a shootout at the ending, couldnt they have done so with keeping the father as the 'bad guy'?

What do you guys think?

[–] dkirkc 18 years ago

The father wasn't the bad guy though.
I don't really think Norton's character
was bad. He just seemed lonely and a
little confused.

The good news is you're going to the party.
The bad news is you're the caterer.

[–] GingerSnaps69 18 years ago

I disagree. Wade was never a bad guy, he was a single dad with two kids trying to get through life. Note that he never was drunk, verbally abusive or physically taking it out on his kids. He only got physical with a head-strong daughter about to make a big mistake with her life.

Harland was a "loser" right from the beginning. Sorry, he was not a James Dean-esque character, he was a guy that did not have his head screwed on right, became a characature and tried to convience everyone else around him that he was that character.

The spoiler was already forshadowed by a) Wade calling his "trailer trash", b) he constant guy-play in fanatasy land, c) shooting of the mirror, and d) packing her bags.

What would have made this flick better was to reduce 30 minutes of the film. Unfortunately, I am not sure what I would have cut as every scene was necessary to show the characters properly, and without it, you would have had a bad father, hero lover, neglected son and lovelorn daughter.

[–] mad_celt_91 18 years ago

Yeah I know what you mean, the movie was also a little worse for me when he shot her. Norton's character is cool, you kinda like him and begin to 'hate' Wade, and then it all goes opposite. Norton was too much of a good guy, to just go crazy like that.

The beginning of the movie, actually everything until that shot, is great, and I thought this will be like 8 or even 9 for me...

I gave it 7/10, but I think they could do a lot better.

[–] Goblin_Echelon 17 years ago

i actually only started to like this movie AFTER he had shot her. *shrug*

[–] MrsAsh 17 years ago

we do all realize that him shooting her was an accident, after all.

I'll cut your heart out with a SPOON!

[–] Goblin_Echelon 17 years ago

exactly. i also thought it was the climax of the entire film - then things really started rolling after he pulled that trigger. That's when we were 100% sure that something was wrong with the guy :)

[–] seimus006 17 years ago

i agree the shooting was the thing that made it interesting

[–] MrsAsh 17 years ago

i think that the scene where he was playing cowboy with the pistols in his apartment was the cutest thing! at first, it is a bit crazy, but then i took it as hes just playing, like a kid. how old is harlan supposed to be anyways? norton was about 36, but looks like 25 or so. i wonder if somebody could zoom way in on the paperwork wade is holding on "marty" and see if a DOB is on there.

I'll cut your heart out with a SPOON!

[–] kamillia 17 years ago

100 % with you guys. The shooting was one way to promote the movie to another level, to contrast with the "blue flower" style from the first 30 minutes. Just to stun you, to make you react and wonder "my god ! what's going on there ? how is really that guy?" Another way to catch a brief glimpse of his real own mind then, starting to waver with him. So good !

[–] Sylvie17 17 years ago

I agree that Ed Norton's character was aw-shucks cute until he "accidentally" shot his sweetheart and then tried to pin it on her Dad. I don't think her Dad was a bad guy at all, just ineffectual. He would turn them off by all the hollering and bluster, and then just let them them go do what they wanted anyway. Sometimes he just wanted to talk and they shut him out. And as cute and sad as Ed's character was, I don't think the girl would have been very happy with him for very long. I think the "pretending" like he did in the motel room would have freaked her out.

[–] ghr-7 17 years ago

The movie was brilliant.

[–] Xtreem 17 years ago

***SPOILERS***
I agree with you. I thought it was a great movie until he shot her; that was one of those bad unexpected moments where you're shocked but are immediately withdrawn because of how ridiculous it is. Every scene after the shooting in the movie just got more and more ridiculous and totally out of line in comparison to the rest of the film.
Seriously, what the hell? They should have just kept with the mood and tone of the beginning of the film because that was great or at least flesh out his breakdown more because it came far too sudden to be believable and then we conveniently find out he's an ex-con. It's like the writer just totally blanked on what to do with the material so he decided throw in a lame shock in the middle and end it with some action.
I love independent films that dare to be different but this one tried too hard and it was not executed well.

[–] queenshan 17 years ago

I didn't have a problem with the shooting at all. I knew that things weren't going to go well...it was obvious to me that "Harlan" was more than just a little bit crazy. And that Toby was on to it. You could tell.

However, for someone who was so handy with a gun to accidentally shoot like that. It seemed like an easy plot device to me. Some of the behavior just didn't match up. Now if he'd still been drunk or something, then it would have been more plausible. He was manipulative and needy throughout the whole film, but at the end it just seemed over the top and false.

I also had a major problem with how he went from stalking around in the dark far away from the campsite to riding in to rescue Lonnie on the white horse. 30 seconds after dodging bullets. What-ever!!!

[–] LadyBirdGoodman 17 years ago

I didn't see shooting her as a flub with the gun, but rather a mistaken impulse. When he shot her, he knew what he was doing, or he wouldn't have pulled out the gun, but he didn't plan to do it and he immediately regretted doing so. When he was pretending to shoot nemeses in the mirror of his motel room, his response to someone talking back and riling him up was to shoot them - she was upsetting him by refusing to go and, like her father, suggesting there was something wrong with him, and shooting her seemed like the appropriate response at the time.
That said, I did think the shooting was a surprise, and it definitely changed the tone of the film. While I preferred the first half in terms of entertainment value, Harlan became a complex character as soon as he shot Tobe. He not only lied to Lonny to get him to go away with him, but actually deluded himself into believing that Wade had shot Tobe or was at the very least responsible for her injury. The shooting scenes, while "real", are constructed as a manifestation of Harlan's fantasy life; he settles for the night on the set of a Western while being chased and likely to face off with Wade again because it's where he feels comfortable and because he imagines this sort of place as the backdrop for his last stand with the villain who took his girl away from him.

Over all, I think it WAS brilliant - much more than I expected and a truly beautiful story. The characterization alone makes this one of the most unique and fascinating films I have ever seen.

[–] dbeane 11 years ago

I agree. He lost his temper for a split second.

The scene showed his lack of mental balance, but no malice, and was a parallel to the scene in his apartment where he shot the mirror.

[–] pinkfloydfreak87 17 years ago

He was used to his guns where the hammer had to be cocked to fire. He had pulled out her fathers gun that didn't need to be cocked. I think he wanted to scare her with the gun and had no intention of shooting her when he yanked it out. You can see he is shocked when he shoots her.

[–] Canuck21 17 years ago

I totally disagree with you. From the very beginning to the end, Wade was never a bad guy. He's a dad who cares for the well being of his daughter. Even when Harlan still seemed a nice and decent guy, I totally understood Wade's doubts. Any caring and sane parent would object with that relationship.

Harlan was cute at the beginning, but when he lied about the horse that he borrowed from "Charlie", I started to have my doubts about his sincerity. Then we see him playing cowboy alone in his apartment; that's an indication that something is not quite right with the guy.

Contrary to you, it's the turnaround that made me like the movie. I didn't want to see the too typical, one dimensional, bad parent objecting to true love; that's too boring.

[–] dbeane 11 years ago

Yes, this is the scene where the viewer first gets the idea that "Harlan" is not what he seems.

[–] Isaac5855 17 years ago

Yeah, my feelings about the film completely changed when he shot October...I was in total shock and couldn't figure out why he did that...I mean there were hints prior to that Harlan was not right in the head, but I didn't see that coming at all.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]