why did Ben Wade kill Charlie?
Why did Ben Wade shot his own gang? I can't figure out what was their mistake.
shareWhy did Ben Wade shot his own gang? I can't figure out what was their mistake.
shareI like to think it was because he thought Dan was a good man and wanted him to make it back home safe with his son. Charlie was very loyal and probably thought Wade wanted him dead.
CHRISTIAN BALE is PURE AWESOMENESS!!!
That was part of it.
I think it mostly had to do with the fact that he saw something in himself via Dan and his son, and he knew with his gang he would never be free. Likely after he yelled at Charlie for shooting Dan, he was at risk from Charlie, he showed a weakness.
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because he is an ungrateful prick.They(especially Charlie Prince)deserved far better from him after the risks they took and the loyalty they showed him,especially when you consider how Wade dealt with the gang member earlier on in the movie who made a mistake.After that I lost any sympathy that had built up inside me for the Wade charachter and I hoped to myself that he would end up getting gang raped in prison by a gang of wild Indians.
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Why did you have any sympathy for him in the first place?
Why did you have any sympathy for him in the first place?
Sympathy maybe was not the best choice of word on my part.But I did think he was a man who would have appreciated and reciprocated the loyalty shown to him by his gang and their efforts to free him.And it was mostly the fault of Wade that Evans was killed.Wade could easily have subdued Evans imo(especially during the shootout when Evans focus was elsewhere)and subsequently ensured his safety and paid him off after he reunited with his gang.Everybody would have won.Wades motivation in the latter part of the film is a puzzle to me.
I realize I'm late to this thread, but check out hawkbill666's response two posts above yours. I think his is the best answer here.
sharemad funny..
by - dimsum73-1 on Tue Feb 1 2011 18:00:28
Because he hated having a gay guy in his unit.
there is no sense in the killing! there's no enough story to justify why Wade Kills Charlie. OK we can see there's a good feeling with bale's character, but not enough for killing his gang mate!
Ben had decided that Dan's son had to see him get on that train.
He had to kill his gang because they wouldn't let him get on that train. There would have been no way to explain it to them, especially without Dan's son seeing.
So not only did Dan's son get to see that his dad successfully got Wade on the train, he also got to see that his dad was able to convince Wade that he needed to go!
This doesn't mean that Wade was actually convinced that he needed to go to prison (hence the whistling for the horse), only that Wade wanted it to appear that way to the boy.
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Yep.
Basically killed his gang to fulfill the last desires of Dan.
But what still doesn't make sense is why would he kill Charlie like that? With almost hatred, this feeling makes no sense.
Unless of course he did as an 'act' for Dan's son. That Dan's death had effected him so badly he killed his entire gang as revenge.
That's the main problem. The film is too unclear on whether Wade was actually faking his feelings or he really did feel angry enough to kill his whole gang and especially Charlie.
I think that's the key. Charlie was so vicious, dumb and pitiless that he could never understand why Wade would want to go on that train willingly. It's his nature which made Dan's death inevitable, so Wade took revenge on him by killing him in the very personal way he did it. Basically blaming him.
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Very true, I forgot Wade had a murderous temper, that was displayed very well twice in the film.
I just never saw him lose his temper like that with so much emotion in the film.
He's sort a person who keeps his emotions locked down, like when he kills that pinkerton old sob, he only get's angry for a microsecond, then just throws him off the cliff like nothing. And the same applies for the guy he stabs with the fork, he waited till everyone was asleep then stabbed him to death.
Another time he gets angry is when Dan throws the key in the grasses, but not enough to kill him just knock him out.
I aree with all that is stated above. Ben WAde is a continuous struggle between good and bad in this film. From the beginning, one minute he is a charming, likable character who quickly turns into a murderous maniac. I think he struggled with both parts of himself not really knowing who he was - abandoned in a train station reading the bible. There are many times when Ben calls out his captors in their supposeded rightousness - McElroy's murder of Apache women and children; Butterworth putting dollar amount on the losses instead of the lives lost; Then comes Dan Evans, a man who has nothing but his honor and decency and struggles to do the right thing, even when tempted to sell out for $1000 to let Ben Wade go. Dan knows hes probably going to make it out alive, but wants to leave this world with his son's admiration. The small tug of goodness in Ben is attracted to that in Dan, who never faulters or confuses good with bad. He wants Dan to win....and when Charlie Prince takes that from both of them (Dan being the hero and Ben giving that to him) he reverts back to the animalistic, impulsive anger he knows.
"That Barney Rubble, what an actor!!" -Night Shift
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I think Ben had never seen true integrity before. All the men in this movie had mixed ambitions, mixed ethics, just like when Ben quotes the bible, he is sharing in the hypocrisy. However, Dan continued to show him that he was the real deal. Their first meeting, Ben saw something there- for as cold blooded as he was made out to be he would have gunned Dan and his boys down because they were witnesses. Not that it made any difference, but he could have done it just because he could. If Charlie led the gang, he would have killed them all. No, Ben left them and in addition, left their horses up the road for them, and act of consideration. Next, at the meeting in the bar, you could tell that Ben admired Dan's "spunk" (for lack of a better word). Ben seemed amused by him at first but as he spent more time with him he saw what a consistently good man he was, how he made decisions and how he withstood giving in to temptation and taking the easy way out. When Ben shared with Dan about his abandonment story, that was a sign of trust, which opened up the door for Dan to share about his leg being shot off and then again that he wasn't "stubborn". It was something that friends do and created a bond between them.
"That Barney Rubble, what an actor!!" -Night Shift
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I think Ben had never seen true integrity before. All the men in this movie had mixed ambitions, mixed ethics, just like when Ben quotes the bible, he is sharing in the hypocrisy. However, Dan continued to show him that he was the real deal. Their first meeting, Ben saw something there- for as cold blooded as he was made out to be he would have gunned Dan and his boys down because they were witnesses. Not that it made any difference, but he could have done it just because he could. If Charlie led the gang, he would have killed them all. No, Ben left them and in addition, left their horses up the road for them, and act of consideration. Next, at the meeting in the bar, you could tell that Ben admired Dan's "spunk" (for lack of a better word). Ben seemed amused by him at first but as he spent more time with him he saw what a consistently good man he was, how he made decisions and how he withstood giving in to temptation and taking the easy way out. When Ben shared with Dan about his abandonment story, that was a sign of trust, which opened up the door for Dan to share about his leg being shot off and then again that he wasn't "stubborn". It was something that friends do and created a bond between them.
I know it's an old post, but you hit the nail on the head. Very well said!
shareyeah but his crew was very loyal esp. CHarlie and he didn't deserve what crowe did to him.
His gang wasted alotta time tracking him while risking their lives just to get shot by him.
They shoulda left him behind like one of his men said to.
Crowe"Wade" is an ungreatful piece of garbage.
Plus its just not believable. Bale was being a major dick and I cant see Crowe taking to him that much that he would help him jail him and murder his own gang.
Movie was good untill Crowe and bale started running to the train, all downhill from there.
You ever think maybe Ben finally realized he was a bad man who keep even worse company and way ready to pay for what he's done. He admired the *beep* outta Dan.
shareI think Wade is thinking about retiring and running away from his life as a gang leader (his conversation with a girl from the bar)
And after all that he's been through with Dan and William, i think he has more feelings to them than his own gang
I must say, I liked the movie a lot up until Ben Wade killed his cohort, Charlie.
I actually hated the movie because of it, but a lot of the comments here are making me rethink why Ben killed Charlie.
A lot of intelligent comments in this thread.
Kudos.
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This is the best answer I could come across. It's from a reviewer on the reviews section.
I'll just copy/paste it here, to clarify the ending/ question on why Ben Wade shoots his own gang.
Wade is a confident and highly talented man who smugly looks down on others, acting like a disciple of Nietzsche who has no moral obligation to anyone, least of all God. He senses simple purity in Evans and plays the role of tempter, trying to corrupt Evans and win him to his way of thinking. But as they wait in the hotel room it is Evans who "converts" Wade, in a sense. Evans doesn't accomplish this in any type of contrived manner, he accomplishes it simply by being WHO HE IS -- an undefiled, courageous family man who stubbornly refuses to give up on hope, faith, life, righteousness and family.
As they're waiting, Wade sketches a picture of Evans in a book. It is later shown that this sketch was made on an opening page of a Bible. This reveals that Wade came to view Evans as a Christ figure, at least subconsciously, and that Evans is clearly a type of Christ in the Film.
What exactly was it that caused Wade to "convert" and support Evans? (1.) He saw in Evans a man that refused to be bought -- a man who refused to be corrupted by filthy lucre, which was something he never experienced before. (2.) Evan's son insisted that there was still some good in Wade despite his wicked history. Regardless of Wade's denial, the kid was right. The idea that SOMEONE saw a glimmer of good in him, that SOMEONE out there BELIEVED in him despite his past evil deeds ultimately moved him and compelled him to support Evans. (3.) Wade turned evil because he was abandoned as a kid. He saw in Evans and his wife a REAL family -- parents who stayed together and refused to abandon faith, hope, righteousness and family come hell or high water. He became convinced that Evans and his family were worth supporting, even perhaps dying for. (4.) Evans made a deal with the Pinkerton that if he successfully got Wade to the train the Pinkerton would make sure Evans' family got $1000, which would bail them out of their hardships. Wade wanted to make sure the family got that money. Somewhere deep inside he wanted to redeem himself of his wicked past and this was the opportunity. This could be the beginning of a new life.
(5.) Wade's relationship with Evans lasted only a few days but he found something that was missing in all his other relationships - a friendship based on respect rather than familiarity or shared events. Great friendships like this can happen quickly similar to love-at-first-sight. Such relationships are conducive to transparency, which explains why Evans reveals to Wade the real reason he lost his leg in the war.
After Evan's brutal death he has an even greater revelation: To see a truly undefiled man -- a simple but GREAT man -- murdered by a group of immoral swine fills him with disgust. You can see it on his face. Yes, he should be thankful that his men remained loyal to him but this was about their only redeeming quality. To truly start a new life he would have to be judge and executioner of the corrupted souls who would pull him back down into the slime.
Why did Evans have to die? Because redemption can only be paid via the spilling of blood. It was the price for Wade to live and have a new life.
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I am surprised to come against so many people in here judging Ben just because he is a bank robber and generally an outlaw. Like law is something always good for you made to work in the interest of people. Like is not the banks that steal people's money even today. Like the real villain in the movie was Ben, not Hollander.
I am asking all of you to please open your minds just a little and understand that sometimes its not the dirty bad-ass guy who is the real bad guy. Most of the times the real bad guy is the guy in the suit.
Ben was a man with principles. His own principles but he had some. His gang had no principles. Charlie killing Dan was simply something Ben could not accept. He had enough of them. He tolerated them all this time but this was a red line the passed. Killing the other scumbags in suits (bankers) was ok. Killing men like Dan was over the limits. Charlie and the others had to die after that. Because Ben WAS a man of honor despite his life and way he chose to live it. From the begging, not just at the end.
Simply as that.
The post xxmyloveuxx made was the best answer I had seen here till now. I really am surprised of how many people have watched the film, even liked it but didn't get the point of it!
but in my opinion a person can never be good if they betray some one like that, betrayal is one big sin.
Charlie nearly fought out his life for the leader, he never weavers a single bit even under temptation, yet all he gets is a quick death from someone he respect so much, who is the real evil here?
how horrifying it is when people start to justifying wade's action, can we trust each other anymore?
So the son could say goodbye to his father. Wade had no intention of being with the gang again. After all, he climbed back aboard the train to Yuma. He knew he could escape later and be free of his old cohorts.
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First you need to understand that Ben cares nothing for Charlie. Ben described his gang as a pack of wild dogs (or something like that). They serve his purpose, but he showed early on that he has no qualms with putting one of them down if he feels it necessary.
Now you need to look at Ben and Dan's relationship. There's no doubt that Ben began to think of Dan as a friend. And Dan was probably the only "good" person Ben had ever really known. Just look at all the corrupt law enforement (including the pinkerton). Butterfield cared very little for people in his employ, only about his own skin and the money Wade was stealing from him. Then you have Dan who's about as honest as you can get, who wants nothing more than to provide for his family and be respected. While Ben mocks Dan's life and his struggles, he probably sees something that might have been, because Dan's son reminds him of himself.
Wade was already committed to getting on the train by that point. But after Dan was shot, killing his game was the only way he could stay on the train and fulfill his favor to Dan and his family. Will he give up his life of crime? Probably not. He may very well start up a new gang. But for that brief period of time, there was somebody he thought enough of to do something good for.