why do so many people diss this movie? - Coffee and Cigarettes (2004) Discussion

[–] aurorablaze 19 years ago

Because they don't understand it. It's not the conventional type of movie most people are used to. It's black and white, and in short segments. Actually, it's not like any other movie; it's in a genre of it's own.

You either love it or hate it. You can either appreciate it for what it is, or hate it for what it's not.

This is a movie that you can watch many times over and not get tired with. And if you saw it once and decided you didn't like it, watch it again and you'll probably start to see some things that you do like.

I watched it once and loved it, I watched it a second time and noticed things I didn't see the first time around, and watched it again just to be saturated with the whole film.

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] ElFabuloso 17 years ago

I loved the Iggy Pop/Tom Waits scene. Its the only one I've seen; just a youtube clip. Now I plan to rent the movie and see the whole thing. I thought Iggy and Tom were delightfully awkward together. "Now that I've quit, I can have one." LOL! And then when they both light up, they puff away with such enjoyment. Makes me remember why I used to love to smoke.
*beep* brilliant! Unfortunately, with the health ninnies running things nowadays, you can't sit in a diner and have a cup and a smoke. But the concept for the film is inspired. Fun improv.

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[–] Christoffer_Glans 19 years ago

Maybe because they think every star would jump up with a smoke and shoot with an m4 in slo-mo, running down the café screaming *beep*

Now, they sit down and play an intelligent script... some people can't comprehend intelligence greater than their own. Thats why!

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[–] larry_sellers 19 years ago

You know just because someone doesn't like this movie, it doesn't mean they didnt "get it". Some people like this movie and others obviously do not. It doesn't mean you are right and they are wrong.

Personally, I thought this movie was boring. I like to be entertained by a movie. There was nothing here that was interesting in the scope of cinematography, acting, script, etc.

Apparently black & white + no music + sitting around = masterpiece. Well I don't buy that at all. If I wanted to see people sitting around and talking about nothing remotely interesting I would go to a crappy diner and listen.

Coffee and cigarettes!! They all have it in common! Why don't we make a movie about people with the same shoe size and they could sit around a shoe horn and a brannock device waxing about the cost and color of shoes in this "foot fashion generation". I don't hate many movies, but I wish I could have the life back that this piece of trash sucked out of me. It's incredible someone could create this and think they have a wonderful Idea on their hands.

In closing I would like to mention that I tried to give this movie a fair shot even though I didn't like most of the players. I do enjoy Bill Murray and Steve Buscemi, but everyone else does nothing for me. The ultimate suck award in my opinion needs to be handed to the White Stripes. Congratulations guys on spewing crappy music and then making crappy movies.

I'm Larry Sellers and I approve this message

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[–] icarus1943 19 years ago

"You know just because someone doesn't like this movie, it doesn't mean they didnt "get it". Some people like this movie and others obviously do not. It doesn't mean you are right and they are wrong."

For sure, however you went on to say that this movie had nothing in the scope of acting. Are you out of your mind? This was a feast of acting, brilliant acting. If you don't like the movie fine, but don't contradict yourself so horrendously by doing exactly the same thing you accused others of doing.

Personally, I thought this movie was brilliant. I was spellbound the entire time. It was an amazing exhibition of human nature, emotion and relationships. If i wanted to see people sitting around and talking about nothing remotely interesting i would go to a crappy diner and listen, but i didn't, i wanted to see fantastic film so i bought this DVD.

****ing Fantastic.

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] endr377 17 years ago

*fapfapfap*

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[–] jamesdean19197 19 years ago

are you crazy?

first and foremost i want to point out that the White Stripes do not make either bad music or movies. Sure they aint gonna win an oscar but the acting was still good. And, their music is amazing. im sorry that they dont sound like everyone else. Man, something original for once, lets critisize it.

and they same thing goes for the film. just because it was something that YOU weren't looking for in a format that YOU didn't like, doesn't make it a bad film.

Why should we listen to you anyway?

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] fiftysixtears 19 years ago

I love the White Stripes, but "original" is far from the first word that comes to mind. They're doing nothing that hasn't already been done in Detroit for decades, just listen to Son House.

Personally, though, I adored this film. I'm a huge fan of Tom Waits, and a big fan of Bill Murray, so they were the main selling points, but I was impressed by the entirety of the film.

The only real arguments against the film that I've heard are that it's dull, or that the conversations are unrealistic. As for it being dull, it's not dull, it's life. It's the kind of thing you see all around you in reality, and it's just teaching you to be able to laugh at the absurdity of people.

As for the conversations being unrealistic, it's very much the same point. How many times have you found yourself in entirely ridiculous or seemingly irrelevant conversation with people? For those of the "coffee and cigarettes generation" (a phrase I hate, but it seems nowhere more appropriate than here), I would wager that it's many, many times, and that's what this film is about. And besides, how do you, the theoretical critic, know what Jack and Meg White discuss in their spare time?

In short, it's not for everyone, but nothing is. For those of us it's aimed at, though, we appreciate it for what it is, and we love it.

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[–] robotkarel 18 years ago

White Stripes are great, by the way, this movie too

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] mike443223 19 years ago

I don't understand how people not liking this movie automatically equates to being less intelligent to those who do.

Hate to burst your bubble but it really wasn't that intelligent a movie. It had its moments but there are much smarter films

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[–] Johnny_Wood 19 years ago

Hey Christoffer, you gotta read my post on "can someone give me a reason to watch this movie?"

Here it is in all its original glory...

by - kierinhansen (Thu Feb 16 2006 02:07:57 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
im not trying to be sarcastic but i tried watching this film twice. the first time i fell asleep and the second time, i couldnt get through the first scene. i like jarmusch but i just could not see where this film could possibly go. i am going to give it a third try, but can someone give me a reason to watch this movie? ie... what to expect, what they got out of it, or if its worth it?
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(by me)
Okay, heres one. In a later scene, Bill Murray meets up wit Wu-tang. He drops the n-bomb, and Wu tang go and shoot up the place. Bill takes a bullet in the chest, collapsing a lung. This old woman in the background suffers a fatal heart attack, before being knocked off of her Rascal by a spray of gunfire. And then Bill Murray appears with a flame thrower. He lights his cigarette on the flames and then commences to torch the place. Then Cate Blanchette runs in naked and chains Bill to a wall, commencing to provide oral sex while Bill continues to burn the building down.

Somewhere in the midst of battle, Iggy Pop and Tom Waits and the Giant Robo make an appearance, and we hear this hard hitting industrial music playing as Giant Robo shoots rockets out of his bass drum. Tom still can't find himself on the jukebox, so he sets a wall of liquor bottles on fire.

SPOILER: Iggy Pop shoots Wu Tang AND Bill Murray dead, but Vinny Vella and Vinny Vella Jr come in with tommy guns and leads everybody out to the lake to seal their feet in concrete. Taylor Mead saves the day though, but you might have to watch it to find out how.

Sounds good? Okay when your done posting on the Spiderman and Men in Black forums, you can watch it again to see what you were sleeping through. goddamn...
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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] firemovielover 19 years ago

I hated this movie. I recently rented it and was severely dissapointed. It had a few funny moments but was way too drawn out and boring for the most part. i appreciate what jaramush was attempting to do(and i stress attempting), but he failed in my opinion. What really dissapointed me the most was by reading the box i was amazed at all the big names in the film, and figured it would be great...nope.

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[–] romipanchir 19 years ago

Jim Jarmusch did in fact make Ghost Dog: Way of the Samurai, which was an action film of sorts.

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[–] dead_pinklet 19 years ago

i don't know... i fell asleep on it but still "liked" it. just. (so i disagree with aurorablaze). i couldn't really relate to it because i don't drink coffee, smoke cigarettes, or listen to the White Stripes, Iggy Pop or Elvis. the scenes i really liked were "that stuff'll kill ya" (because it reminds me of my old relatives) and "cousins" (because of cate's fine acting). hpoe i didn't insult anyone ^-^

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[–] marcusupa 19 years ago

I think like many jarmusch and "great" films this will grow on you. the first time i saw it I wasn't that impressed but now some scenes really stand out as classic. he has a style that is unparalled and it's takes a certain film viewer to appreciate the subtleties.
plus it's jarmusch!... has he made a bad film?

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] nletore 19 years ago

Actually it's a very uneven film, so you can't blame people for not liking it. The opening sketch, for example, is not very good, neither is, IMO, the one with the white stripes, let's face it. But some of them are just wonderful:
the one with the woman alone wanting her coffee to be perfect.
the one with Alfred Molina
the one with Cate Blanchett.

So I won't mind people dissing it that much, it's far from Jarmusch's best. A bit like Mystery Train: the opening and ending sketches are wonderful, but the middle one is just too weak and it undermines the rest. I know I'll still watch C&C and MT again, though... :P

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[–] rec4 19 years ago

I thought this movie was great!!

Having just watched Mystery Train at uni, I was tempted to pick this one up on DVD and I must say I was impressed. People who insult this movie, quite rightly don't understand it for its style nor appreciate Jarmusch's aesthetic. This film quite clearly points out what is wrong with Hollywood, films filled with spectacle, trying to intertextualise from other genres, when a film as simple as this is so evokative in a basic space.

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[–] DarthVader28 19 years ago

This may very well be one of 3 worst films ive ever seen close rollerball
and paln9 from outspace those were *beep*
This is a ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE FILM.

IF YOUR NOT WITH ME THEN YOUR MY ENEMY

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[–] DerVagabund 19 years ago

Oh you're American...

Well wnow about the film:

I liked it in parts. i love tom waits dissing iggy pop, and alfred molina is a god.
the turnaround in that episode is just great.

Apart from that it obviously had it's weaknesses like not much action and sometimes the dialogue is debatable.

but the episode with the two old men on their coffee break is just a miracle.

one should keep in mind what kinda film one wants to see. Obviously a Jarmusch-Movie is not something that the average viewer of Spiderman may want to appreciate. That is not saying anything about their intelligence but a lot about what they personally like.

Those who liked this should watch "Don't Come Knocking".
At least that's what i think

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[–] empty_coconut 19 years ago

The first time I saw it, I didn't quite get it, I guess. The second time I saw it, I fell in love with it - in fact, I went out and bought it - not something I'd normally do.
I definitely understand people not liking it - or not liking parts of it though. It certainly isn't a conventional film, and that's what people go to the movies to see, though I don't think I could've seen it in the theatres. It was much more fun seeing it with friends and the option to talk about what was going on.
Anyway... Great film, even though I had to see it twice to really appreciate it.

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[–] Illinipride 19 years ago

Scroll up and read larry sellers bit,

Amen

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[–] jrandazzofilms-1 19 years ago

Because it was pretentious crap...

And yes I have seen films that were B&W and in short segments, I just don't like films that are "artsy" for the sake of being "artsy."

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[–] mweinman-1 19 years ago

this film was ridiculously pretentious. coffee and ciggerettes are something we all enjoy, but the fact that a movie was based around it, just makes the film boring and senseless. I apreciate all types of films. This flick didn't appeal to me at all. And its not about not understanding the film, because i could do that before watching it.

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] Johnny_Wood 19 years ago

Eveyone's entitled to their opinion sadly,

but in my opinion, i think its one of the funniest films I've seen this *beep* up generation put out. More comedies should strive to be like this.

But most people think you gotta be watching a couple of potheads try to get to a crosstown burger joint, while being involved in a bunch of "wacky" little hijinks and mishaps along the way to laugh.

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] larry_sellers 18 years ago

Add those terms to a long list of others that are over used in horrible fashion on IMDB. Some others I can think of are "jump the shark" and "convoluted". If I could go through an IMDB message board and never see those words again I would be a happy lil camper.
I'm Larry Sellers and I approve this message

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] mail-1878 17 years ago

Surely the fact it's black and white makes it pretentious - it didn't add anything to the film.

I actually really liked this film but firmly put it in the pretentious category of my collection. I just happen to like pretentious films.

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[–] matthew17 18 years ago

I think everyone should just stop arguing tbh (like I think on every single board this stupid website has produced).

I personally LIKE this film, a lot. However, there are some segments I dislike and like above the others. I agree with people who say that those who hate the film simply "do not get it" are correct, those who don't like it don't "get" the humour/or the similarities between the segments and those real life "segments" that many of us have enjoyed.. to be honest if you don't "get" the humour or realities of the film I don't understand how anyone could understand it, but i'm not arguing with anyone on these boards as we all should know that any argument falls on deaf ears.

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[–] Czails 18 years ago

I really wanted to like this movie. Loved "Stranger Than Paradise" "Down by Law" and "Dead Man".

I also liked so many people in this movie...Murry, Iggy, Tom Waites...etc

but this movie didn't work for me...

I am going to rent it again though to give it another shot :-)

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[–] cbartal 18 years ago

I got free tix to this film and still walked out half way thru the Waits/Popp scene. I just didn't believe in the characters, and if I'm not mistaken, they were playing themselves! The conversation was contrived and condescending.

Unfortunately, Iggy and Tom's performances in this film made Billy Idol's appearance in The Wedding Singer look like high art.

If the film started working after I left then let me know.

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[–] bela_bombastic 18 years ago

Eggsactly, dude.

"Milk was a bad choice"

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[–] muskyfingers 18 years ago

dude, me no like movie. me understand, me just think crap. make angry. nothing but dialogue!!! me want smash!!! me like color. me think the iggy pop and tom waits skit was terribly contrived!!! rrraarrrrr!!!!!

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[–] yeoldejeremy 18 years ago

I really liked some of the shorts, some of them had interesting things to talk about. But I really hated that last one with the olde people, that was too boring to watch. And I just ejected the DVD, because I had seen enough. It's a good idea, I suppose. There should be more movies like that. Different settings though. Would it be copying this too much to make a movie of short vignettes with a different theme? No, I don't think so, of course not. Right? :) Mm. Bye.

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[–] psalmkiller 18 years ago

'Coffee & Cigarettes' was always going to cause arguments.

The humour in many of the vignettes depends on a knowledge of the musicians and their influence I believe, and of course certain people will know these details and others wont. For me, seeing the profoundly influential and talented Jack White talk about his Tesla Coil was hilarious: taking a musician out of his nautral context as rock star and making him into a bookish geek was very funny. Similarly for Iggy Pop and Tom Waits, two hugely influential musicians slammed together with not much in common provides some great conversation.

The movie does get stick for the black and white style and vignette format and I don't think Jarmusch does himself any favours with this, as it makes the movie seem pretentious, although I think the black and white was brilliant in the scenes with less famous actors, particularly the final vignette.

I personally loved the film as an exploration of some great characters. The angry ageing men together makes for hilarious dialogue as well as exploring the idea of the new health conscious male with the man who has stopped smoking. Similarly with the pretty woman getting constant attention from the young waiter we see a brilliant exposition of the young, nervous boy attempting to approach a beautiful woman: Jarmusch explores this awkward situation very well and with much humour.

I could go on, but shan't. Essentially I think the movie is a great exploration of human interaction and character using coffee and cigarettes as the centre-point to hold the movie together. Well done Jim.

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[–] Mat-37 18 years ago

"I got free tix to this film and still walked out half way thru the Waits/Popp scene. I just didn't believe in the characters, and if I'm not mistaken, they were playing themselves! The conversation was contrived and condescending."

Too bad, you missed the better segments... You didn't "believe" in the characters, well, you should have understood by then that other characters would come along and you wouldn't see those two in the next scenes.
Oh and btw I don't think you know what "condescending" means.

Now, to answer the question, why do people diss the movie? Because some parts are boring, some parts only make sense if you want them to make sense. Me, I liked it, probably because I knew it was gonna be nothing but people sitting and talking, and I was familiar with Jarmush, so I didn't expect more than what I got.

- A point in every direction is the same as no point at all.

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[–] billames2 18 years ago

by - Mat-37 on Thu Feb 15 2007 03:31:27
"- A point in every direction is the same as no point at all."

Best summary I've read for this movie.

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[–] TheStranger666 17 years ago

i like films. i will sit through anything, no matter how bad it is. i also never fal asleep during a film unless it is really late and that is the entire reason i am watching. this is the only movie i fell asleep during. i like artsy films, this one just did nothing for me. i was wanting to see it cause i love black and white films, but this one just bored me, good thing i didn't pay to see it.

Is there a chemical in X that makes you dance like a prick?

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[–] happygerbaloon 18 years ago

I disliked it not becuase i didnt understand it but because it was essentially people rambling, i might have to watch it again though its been about a year since i saw it.

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