MovieChat Forums > Mysterious Skin (2005) Discussion > was 'the rape' truly rape? -Comments wel...

was 'the rape' truly rape? -Comments welcome

posted 17 years ago by missdestinyjade
110 replies | jump to latest

I was just thinking about "the rape", and was wondering if it can truly be considered rape. I mean if Neil wanted to press criminal charges could he? I'm not to sure. I mean the legal definition of rape(from the u.s department of justice website) is as follows:

Rape - Forced sexual intercourse including both psychological coercion as well as physical force. Forced sexual intercourse means vaginal, anal or oral penetration by the offender(s). This category also includes incidents where the penetration is from a foreign object such as a bottle. Includes attempted rapes, male as well as female victims and both heterosexual and homosexual rape. Attempted rape includes verbal threats of rape.

Now of course by this definition, it was indeed rape, seeing as though it was forced(we know that because we saw the entire situation/movie unfold.) We know about Neil's tragic childhood because we saw the movie, BUT WHAT IF this was a trial, and we were jurors? We weren't there, we didn't see what happened from beginning to end, all we know is that Neil claims to have been raped. From the definition above ^, it's an open and shut case. He forced himself onto Neil. But wait, the Defense will of course throw a wrench into that theory of "forced sexual intercourse". I mean look at the situation from the p.o.v. of the defense:

Neil is a prostitute who WILLINGLY got into the defendants vehicle, and went to the defendants home with ALL INTENTIONS of having sexual intercourse. While @ the defendant's home, Neil snorted cocaine WILLINGLY, and WILLINGLY removed his clothing and proceeded to have sexual relations/interaction with the defendant. Though the interaction was aggressive, up to this point there were NO objections on Neil's behalf. So okay fine, he did excuse himself to "use the restroom", where he had ample time to do what he had to do. The defendant came in (he didn't break in did he? i mean it is his house, bathroom and lock) and they proceeded to have AGGRESSIVE (but not forced) intercourse. Neil never yelled, asked for help, or resisted. There was no verbal threat to his life or the lives of his loved ones, he simply just went along with the situation.

Now of course the defense would have to come up with a logical explanation for beating neil with a shampoo bottle, but they can say that Neil was into that(people are into all kinds of *different* things).

Bottom line, i'm just saying that if this was real life and went to trial, the "rapist" would probably get off. (so to speak) I mean, i'm sure the defense would bring up Neil's life style and call him a drug abusing prostitute-hardly a model citizen or typical "victim", and Neil wouldn't stand a chance. Which is probably why in the film, he seems to bounce back so quickly. To have been "violated" just 24 hours earlier, he seemed fine, if not somewhat jovial when breaking into the coach's former house and swiping cookies.

I don't know, perhaps someone disagrees? I have no problem with hearing anyone's objections/opinions...

Ojos que no ven, corazón que no siente.
What the eyes do not see the heart does not feel.

[–] icarusinbrazil 17 years ago

Yes, it was a rape. When the victim is a prostitute, the jury might not be sympathetic--but the odds are they could find other victims to testify against the perpetrator. That scene was very difficult to watch.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] equinoxxx 12 years ago

It was a rape. No human being may be subjected to such brutality, regardless of the circumstances.

The scene was not only difficult to watch, but it was brilliant for the way it collapses inherent but rarely commented-upon social distinctions between male and female rape victims. Another scene with profound resonance was the one with the AIDs victim who just needed to be touched.

[–] TellMeMore 17 years ago

It was rape.

[–] startofend 17 years ago

Yeah it was rape sure but he asked for it. And if you think this scene is hard to watch then you haven't seen what a real rape scene is. Watch the movie "Irreversible". The rape scene in this movie is remarkably real unlike some guy hovering over another guy with his legs in the air doing a pumping gesture. Its over 8 minutes long and what was this? Less than a minute. I don't post this to say anything bad about what people can watch or not watch I post this to say...
"Yeah it was rape sure but he asked for it."

Cast the first stone and you will be mocked cast the last stone and you are glorified.

[–] TellMeMore 17 years ago

"Yeah it was rape sure but he asked for it."

What kind of sick comment is that?? No one "asks" to be raped!

[–] maligla 17 years ago

he did not asked for it. he say stop, he said "there's some stuff i don't do". he tried to stop him.

[–] mrparka 17 years ago

i've seen Irreversible and for some reason this rape scene got to me more, i just came from viewing it for the first time, its still fresh in my head, i felt a similar feeling for only two more films irreversible and cannibal holocaust.

[–] courtstone 17 years ago

YES. That was rape. I doesn't matter how me get into the car, or was "willing". That type of brutality and force is rape. Personally I would NOT have gone with any guy that is telling me to "be quiet, shut up and don't say anything". That would have gave me an eerie feeling about this guy before we even got out the car.

But diving a little bit deeper into his actions: Was he acting that way towards Neil because he was a prostitute OR was he treating him that way because of 'his own' personal insecurities? Usually the guys that are extremely homophobic or hateful to gays are guys that are dealing with the very same feelings within themselves.

I heard of a guy (who lives a "straight" life), but he has sex with guys on occasion. He would meet them, talk to them and have sex with them...and just as soon as he "finishes" he would almost go into a rage and physically hit them and beat them up. Very sad. But in order for a person do that...they must really hate themselves and have a lot of insecurities that they just can't deal with.

[–] PnkRckBtch666 17 years ago

Ya know, teh rape scene in Irreversible just didnt do it for me. First of all, 9minutes of rape onscreen is ridiculously long, but it doesnt stay ridiculously disturbing, after a few minutes it lost its brash, in your face, horrible unpleasantness. I was bored by the end, like "Come on, he would have cum by now", but this one got to me, and yes it was rape. Whoever started this thread has experienced the same thing and has been writing it off as something other than rape for awhile, unfortunately, it was. Prostitute or not. And maybe he didnt scream and fight because he was so *beep* degraded and he knew there was nothing he could do but be still and just take it. So he did.

[–] missdestinyjade 17 years ago

"Whoever started this thread has experienced the same thing and has been writing it off as something other than rape for awhile, unfortunately, it was."

Uh......no. I was-THANKFULLY-never raped,molested,felt up, manhandled, touched inappropriately or etc.....

I started this thread just to get people talking and to truly see people's opinions on the matter. I personally do believe that it was rape but thought that maybe someone out there disagreed to a point. Anyway, i appreciate your thoughts even though your judgemental comments were way off base.

Ojos que no ven, corazón que no siente.
What the eyes do not see the heart does not feel.

[–] possum_y3k 17 years ago

He was forcefully *beep* up the ass.

How can that not be rape? Okay he put himself in a bad situation, but that doesn't mean he deserved it.

If a girl goes into a club full of guys wearing a short skirt and gets raped, some might say she was "asking for it", but she would still have been raped.

[–] laurie001 17 years ago

back to the original question, of course it was rape. Would he be prosecuted in court?
Of course not.
Justice systems all across the world are exceptionally prejudice against prostitutes of any kind. The rape prosecution percentages in the UK and the US are mind-bogglingly tiny. And they're even smaller for prositutes being raped. Just as it happens in the movie, in real life a prostitute wouldn't even consider going to the authorities- There'd simply be no point.

[–] gluba2000 17 years ago

It wasn't Neil's fault. Nobody asks to get raped.

You never know what you'll do if you're raped. Some people fight whereas others just freeze up and block out till it's done.

"87% of the Caucasion Persuasion has got it goin' on."
--Wonder Showzen

[–] phasmatrope 16 years ago

You've got to be kidding me... I don't see how you could not see that scene as rape. If you've locked a door and someone picks it (even in their own house), then immediately proceeds to force themself on you while you're face down in a bathtub while hitting you, that's not exactly consensual, pal.

If the victim was a woman, you'd have NO doubt in your mind that it was rape.

[–] beatinghearts_x 17 years ago

Have you ever seen the film Monster? The rape seen in that got to me, I had to turn it over for 5 minutes.

[–] blurredoasis 17 years ago

Absolutely sick that you think someone could ask to be raped.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] blazza 16 years ago

DoubleA_TripleX you are disturbed and pretty damn sick.

Regardless of what Neil did, he did not want to be raped, that was obvious and I am sure nobody will ever want anyone to be raped.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] cota-2 16 years ago

Maybe it's because I'm a guy, or maybe it's because I read the book (in which the rape scene is much more difficult to stomach) but I found the rape in Mysterious Skin far more difficult to watch than the one in Irreversible. I think the distance of the camera in Irreversible may have also made it less claustrophobic and oppressive than in mysterious skin, where you are trapped in the bathroom with them.

[–] corona-5 13 years ago

The notion that male on male rape is more problematic than male on female is truly disgusting. Rape is a moral offense no matter who the victim is.

[–] aicfan85 15 years ago

there is never a good reason for an 8 minute rape scene. as soon as the audience gets whats going on a good director will know when to cut the scene. if it keeps going for 8 minutes it means the director has something to prove and needs to have more taste.

"some movie quote"

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] cdrhs 14 years ago

If you're intelligent enough to understand that it was rape, you should be intelligent enough to understand that no one asks for it.

[–] Sanctuary20 17 years ago

Tell me something, Miss Destiny Jade:

how would you feel if, say I met you in a club and we got drunk and I invited you to my house?

And let's say you would fancy me so you would come to my place we would start kissing taking your clothes off and then I would start punching you and stick you-know-what in your mouth and raped you?

Would not that NOT rape because you WILLINGLY came to my house to have sex with me? and willingly removed your clothes? And willingly drink alcohol with me?

Because his was a male prostitute doesn't change the fact that he was forced to have sex with that guy and he beat him up too.

I am sure he could have pressed charges against that horrible guy.

*sorry for being harsh but I think that was a good way to explain it to you*

[–] MdMaxx 17 years ago

Yes it was rape. The fact that this thread exists is disturbing. No one deserves to be raped. People who are victims of rape crimes did not ask for it.

[–] Grimm-Grimm 17 years ago

Yes it was rape. The fact that this thread exists is disturbing. No one deserves to be raped. People who are victims of rape crimes did not ask for it.

Yes, I think so as well.

At first I thought that the poster may have been asking because he/she was in school to become an attorney. That I could understand wanting to look for a way to prove rape did occur. I don't even want to imagine if the question was asked because such did occur and the question is being asked for criminal defense attorney strategies.

Then another poster thought maybe it was because maybe it happened. Often times people who are raped go thru a lot of thoughts trying to convince themselves all sorts of things, but fact remains what occurred was rape.

Anyone who says "he asked for it" is either a troll that likes sick jokes or someone who seriously needs some help. I've seen people who are the "he/she asked for it" type. My father is one of them. They are usually very troubled angry people throwing blame about.

To post the thread just to see what people would say is pointless and sad. I'd like to think that it was posted in order to find ways an attorney could help prosecute a guilty offender.

Too many times rapists go free in court. Not to mention that most rapes are never reported. And when a rapist gets away with it, he goes on to do it again and again. It takes a very strong person who has already been beaten down both physically and mentally, to stand up and fight back in court. And shame on those who rather then praise and help, sit back and throw blame around.

If any future attorneys need advice here is some:
Juries aren't sympathetic to prostitutes because they have no understanding and compassion for them. But YOU can give them that. You have to show them why and how these people become prostitutes.

Music Vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGzdJdYjWAI

[–] makelifebeautiful 15 years ago

"The fact that this thread exists is disturbing."

Indeed.

[–] love_platipus 14 years ago

Agree. I saw that thread title and was like "Oh, god."

[–] emmeaki 17 years ago

Let's not forget that Neil said "There are certain things I don't do", (or something to that effect) before he went into the restroom. Then the john came into the restroom and said "You're getting screwed." (He didn't say "screwed" but IMDB censored the F word.)

He knew that Neil didn't want to receive anal sex and he forced him to do it anyway. How could this NOT be rape? I don't care if a hundred people paid to have sex with Neil, this man forced himself on him. If this was a heterosexual couple and not a prostitute/john situation, no one would even question whether or not this was rape.

And there was nothing consensual about being beaten over the head with a shampoo bottle and thrown unconscious onto the pavement.

[–] donnylutz 17 years ago

It was rape. Unfortunately, proving it in court would be practically impossible. Many prostitutes, both male and female, are beaten, forced to do things sexually that they aren't comfortable with, and can't do a thing about it after the fact. It's horrible, but it comes with the territory. Prostitution is not like it's shown in movies, it is a very dangerous world..

[–] foxyloxyroxy 17 years ago

it was rape, plain & simple. Neil didn't want to do it & that guy forced himself onto him & repeatedly hit him with a shampoo bottle(correct me if im wrong)to the point where Neil's head was bleeding. There was nothing consentual about this. It is rape no matter what the person's profession is.

[–] Josh_the_Destroyer 17 years ago

YEah, because Neil did say specifically that he did not want to have anal sex.

Hey there.

[–] carlosmiguelvc 17 years ago

he was a child, juridically without "free arbitrium". even if he wanted to have sex with the coach, it would still be rape.

[–] advice31765 17 years ago

The "rape" people are talking about is the "military" guy who picked him up near the end of the film, when he was on his way home from his new job, who took him to Brighton Beach and then raped him in the bathroom.

I thought it was pretty cool that it was a bottle of Johnson's Baby Shampoo "No More Tears" that the rapist hit him with.

[–] crissttigaldames 17 years ago

"YEah, because Neil did say specifically that he did not want to have anal sex".

Well, not exactly. He said "there's some staff I don't do". It seems he meant he didn't do sado-masoquism.

In any case, it isn't necessary that he would have said he dind't want for it to be rape. The fact remains the guy forced him.

"The Love you take is equal to the Love you make" The Beatles.

[–] richster_04 17 years ago

Well not that I really partake in paid sex, but i'm guessing in prosstitution its etiquette not to beat them till they bleed, or break into a bathroom to *beep* them and I would like to assume they are asked if they mind it bareback before you carry out the act. And I presume that waking up *beep* knows where outside meant, he didn't get paid.

Some might consider this man rude, others a rapist.

[–] palprincess 17 years ago

He unlocked the door and tells Neil, "you're going to get f'd whether you want it or not!" Then forces himself on Neil in the bathtub while wacking him in the head with a shampoo bottle making Neil bleed.

Yes yes we all agree it's rape. Of course it's rape. There's no two ways about it, it's rape.

My question to the OP is this - Are there any prostitutes who are into being violently hit till their head bleeds?

Cause it's just not cool to be a Nazi anymore baby. - Half Nelson

[–] palprincess 17 years ago

[–] pwgman14 16 years ago

was the guy the same guy that told neil to put the condom on? cuz he looked like it

[–] Bookworm205-1 16 years ago

Ironic.