MovieChat Forums > Revolver (2005) Discussion > Almost A Decade has passed and still No ...

Almost A Decade has passed and still No real Explanation of the Movie

posted 11 years ago by jjjcaddick
17 replies | jump to latest

So , I've just re-watched the movie after several years and still absolutely NOTHING ! I've READ every post here on IMDB and there is still no real answer to the movie ... I see people saying "WOW , I was blown away with the realisation" , but still no explanation in lay-man's terms ... I don't like people saying that you need a high IQ to understand it , and directly insulting folk who don't get it (like me) ... I can only conclude that you must need a very low IQ to understand it , be a person of low character and wisdom who finds enlightenment in such obviousness that most smart , decent folk understood when they passed their teenage years ?
There is no "Concept" in the Movie that is new to me ... I've never let my ego control my emotions or actions , I will apologise profusely , at the drop of a hat , if I have upset someone (be it my fault or theirs) I don't deal with scrot-bags , I know where I'm going , where I've been and the reality in which I live ... I will admit that I long since admitted that I have been an *beep* in my life and I think we all need to admit this at some point in order to get on with our lives ... I am calm and thoughtful , kind and fair , helpful and submissive ... but wrong me and i'll bring down a wrath on you that will seem like you've messed with the Devil herself ... I will not forgive and forget , I will think and plan a reaction and put it into place with military precision . Fortunately , I've only made one enemy in my life and this situation has been resolved ... So where are we going ? I have an IQ of 146 , retired at 32 , a Shotokan 3rd dan , a Buddhist , live an "alternative" lifestyle , have made several millions of pounds fully legally , am an exceptional Chess player and only deal with nice folk ... I would be happy to give all my money away (I really would) , it does not interest me in the least (would actually find it very interesting trying to make it all again , maybe a different way , or I would very happily work at McDonalds) In fact , the happiest times of my life were when I was completely skint and didn't understand how the world works ... is this what the movie is getting at ? If so , it is rather sad ... Through his actions , Mr.Green gets his entire crew killed along with his Brother and his wife , looses everything he has , both physically and mentally and gets Maccha to kill himself when someone would have surely done it eventually , anyway , for free ? This is not an enlightened man who has his *beep* together , it's just a dumb ass Joey who doesn't understand how the world works ... Kind of like Guy Ritchie ... A bloke , my age , who grew up local to me , a local van-driver who has been consumed by the madness of Hollywood and LA ... if you watch the interview with him on the special edition , he is just a stumbling , mumbling , stuttering prick who has no concept of the deep phylisophy that he stole the idea from in the first place !

Like I said ... if someone gives a REAL explanation of this movie , I will take my hat off and bow down ... but considering the author , a stupid little bloke like Guy Ritchie can reveal nothing to a proper Man ...

[–] dunker56 11 years ago

I'll have a stab (bear in mind I have watched it just once last night).

a) Jake has been in prison for 7yrs in solitary. His two cell mates are a whole league of clever/cunning (more than him as he admits), yet he has never seen them. One is a chess master, the other a master con.

b) Jake gets out of prison, but his cell mates get out a full two yrs before him (mysteriously, not utterly important). Upon release Jake realises that somehow the cellmates got everything they needed from Jake, they played him and stole his entire worth (note in car etc). * But they are also 'teaching Jake', u have to play someone smarter to get better (and they are smarter at this point in time).
Jake learned enough to reclaim his fortune (we see sum scene of him playing poker and winning big time), hence when we cut to the 2yrs later part (where most of the film is seen) he also is rich and powerful like Ray Liotta's character (but not as much). It's also important to note that at the start of the film he sets out with the intention of getting Ray to 'pay' someway or another ie. Jake is still under control of his ego.

c) throughout the entire film we basically see Jake as still not 'enlightened yet'. His EGO/Narration is still talking to him. Do this, do that, don't take it Jake, fight him etc. Yet he kinda goes along with it, resisting some of his ego 'calling' traits (which is interesting in itself).

d) It is only the final elevator scene/bed scene that really is important. At this time, in this space he is very aware of his ego (cut scene of mad jake in elevator). It is this final moment he is becoming truly awake and aware, he has put all the pieces together (that the lone sharks are his cell mates, that he has been winning the chess not because he is better, but that his opponent has been playing him, he has been the 'victim' so far, and again same with the 'con'/giving money away/ill health etc). He finally understands the 'lesson' his cellmates have been trying to assist him to getting to (because u can't tell the person, they have to get there yourself, kinda like counselling).

e) Jake finally wanders out the elevator free. More free than 99% of people on the earth will ever feel. He has shirked his ego (as much as possible) in the purest sense, he does not care if he lives or dies, he could be free for 3 seconds (shot dead by Ray) or for 30 more years, it is not important. The key point is Ray Liotta crying 'FEAR ME!!!' and Jake does not. The reason Ray is crying is he is also on his path to enlightenment (he has been played with after all), he is just more tormented also.

That's pretty much what I got. This film was trying to explore the nature of ego, it is tied to fear, greed, perception etc. It was Jake's journey to being free of ego.

I read yer little rant above, and whilst you have accomplished many a great deed you still seem to confuse ego with self importance. You have shirked many a great aspect of yer ego but still hold onto some is clear (it is controversial if it is at all possible to shirk ego entirely as it is fundamental to survival). The end scene of Jake walking out of an elevator smiling and 'free' yet facing clear danger is key. He deep down knows he could be shot at any time, yet he would rather die in 3 seconds time than continue being slave to ego. His enlightenment is SO powerful it overcomes his desire to go back to ego/self preservation/selfish gene mode. Whether or not he was shot at or not depends on who is holding the gun and at what point in time/relationship with their own ego they have. It is my belief Ray's character was also on some path to enlightenment hence he didn't fire where others may have.

My advice, try not to take the film too seriously. Many films have plot holes. Some might argue Mr Gold is a metaphor, others would argue he really exists and acts as both in this scenario. The point is a director and actors are exploring a theme, in this case the idea and path to being completely free of ego (which is controversial in itself).

[–] studleymoore2027 10 years ago

Best explanation i have heard.

[–] jphavelin-538-614946 10 years ago

I found it helpful as well.

Thank you !

[–] puschit-1 9 years ago

This is a good explanation what you'd expect this to be about, but it just doesn't sum up in the end if you examine all the details. The biggest issue is Zack and Avi - according to your interpretion they are real persons (his ex prison mates) but I think it's obvious they aren't real, evidenced by the rooftop golf scene, bath tub scene and whatnot. But there is so much more - why, for example does Macha kill himself in the end? What about the scene in the middle where Green has his car accident and the movie just rewinds? How can green be so sure to win in the opening scene where they are just flipping coins, using chips of Macha's casino and Macha flipping the last coin?

What you say is true, but I don't think any of the events we see actually take place. I am pretty sure Green is still in prison in solitary, struggling to not lose his mind.

[–] movie_nazi 10 years ago

Very nice explanation. And of course the whiny twat who opened this thread in the first place doesn't even have the courtesy to respond. Perhaps you should use some of the "millions of pounds" you've earned and buy yourself some courtesy classes you c$#t. Oh yeah and after that GIVE AWAY YOUR money like you claimed you would do. It really can be put to better use.

Fkn s^%theel.

My Vote history: http://www.imdb.com/user/ur1914996/ratings

[–] johnnxxx 10 years ago

The guy who opened the thread didn't get a reply for 6 months.. maybe he moved on..

[–] Kard_Shooter 9 years ago

I think his care worker removed his internet access...

LOOKING FORWARD TO:
-Spectre
-Black Mass
-The Revenant
-The Martian
-Hail Ceasar
-The Irishman

[–] simonent-904-173848 9 years ago

Well said.
It is not a basic action film you were expecting from stathem.

Ita not a "glaze over" film, its a thought provoking one.

I also appreciate the interviews of philosophers and doctors who commented on the "ego"

[–] Sidewindr 9 years ago

Your ego appears to be very much alive and kicking.. it certainly controls what and how you write..

[–] Kard_Shooter 9 years ago

I didn't understand any of that incoherent rant. But the thing that stuck out was the statement about you having an IQ of 142. Well, seeing as your grammar and punctuation is particularly AWFUL, i'd have to assume you're stranded in some kind of dream world.

LOOKING FORWARD TO:
-Spectre
-Black Mass
-The Revenant
-The Martian
-Hail Ceasar
-The Irishman

[–] lcopeland-1 9 years ago

I'm not sure you can sum up Jake's behaviors' to ego only. Not that I've been in solitary confinement, just as a guess, you are going to talk to yourself and probably to some extent end up arguing with yourself.

We all to some extent end up doing this. In simpler terms it's the Angel on one shoulder and the Devil on the other, which one are you going to listen to?

But in this movie I believe what you are seeing with Jake Green, is the manifestation of Freud's Id, Ego and Super-ego with each one having an identity developed in solitary and which one will finally rule him.

I'm not talking about psychosis, Schizophrenia or split personality. Just the internal conflicts that go on all the time in your head. You are just seeing each of them in this movie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego

For me the ending is the Id having a complete temper tantrum and the Ego and Super-ego spanking it's little butt and putting it in timeout and Jake coming to terms that revenge and rage is a waste of time.

Or I'm just full of BS and it's just a confusing movie!!!!

[–] miguelvilhena 9 years ago

I agree.

Jake and Machia, for that matter, through most of the movie are very confused individuals tossing various ideas, preocupations, self-deprecating thoughts, troubled and haunted by themselves, and others, scared, with very little understanding of everything that is going on inside their heads. They're being played by their own desires, expectations, mental discussions and ideas.

Jake spent seven years in solitary, and developed schiziofrenia, with or without being between accompaigned by two notorious criminal masterminds, and observing their little game between themselves, or just imagining it. Jake created two alter-egos, manifestations of the best in himself, the super-ego, as he was both an accomplished chessplayer and a master conman. Both of those personalities had an inkling for a knowledge, ideas, that were too sublime for Jake. Jake, the identity he identifies with and the other two plotted to escape encarceration together, an encarceration that is more metaphysical, than physical, but Jake wasn't ready to embrace the ideas of the other two identities, so they vanished, becoming deeply subconscious.

(Jake could have stayed between two master criminals, or not. If he did, he learned a lot from them, and the game other two played. Eventually by the use of this creativity, Jake created the two personas in his consciousness, identified with elements of Freud's Super-Ego, which eventually grew into independent identities, splitting his personality. Jake and the two other personalities had lively discussions, where much knowledge was gained and learned, and perfected. If the criminals were real, this discussion overlapped into the real interactions with the criminals. Eventually the real two criminals escaped, if they existed, and the two other identities of Jake become largely unconscious. Or the two identities decided upon a time to disappear from consciousness, and they did. Still they were there.)

When Jake got out, the other two identities went into overdrive, much like Tyler Durden in Fight Club, and created a whole situation in which to put Jake into. Stole his money, etc. And let the personality Jake prosper from the base ideas the identities presented, while having themselves prosper as loan-sharks.

Also another identity emerged in Jake: Mister Gold. Although Gold is in the movie a metaphor for the hierarquical superior, here a crime boss, which has his underlings under his thumb.

When the time was right the two alternative identities made him sick, terminally sick. And presented themselves consciously to him, conditioning him and guiding him towards understanding himself, and the selfish caprichious animal side of him, a manifestation Freud's Id, which he inconsciously relied upon, and identified with, feeling constantly miserable, becoming free. Jake eventually, in a contrived manner, gained control over the Id, and found peace.

Mr. Machia, on the other hand, serves as a measure for comparison, between what Jake was at the beginning, ignorant and troubled, and what he is at the end, free and peaceful. Also a encarnation of the adage, "The more you own, the more it owns you.", where Machia was selfish, fragile, nervous, anxious, profoundly unhappy, deeply worried, trying to live up to the expectations that others had in him, feeling an overwhelming pressure from it, scared, of others, of losing what he had gained, of disappointing, and dying.

"If we don't agree, show me your truth. If you resort to personal shots, I won't take you seriously."

[–] Neuronhead 9 years ago

Learn to separate into paragraphs. Might make your other claims more believable.

I choose to believe what I was programmed to believe

[–] LouisGur 8 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvpzVcnMkPY

This is my explanation of the film, what do you think?

[–] chuggliams 8 years ago

I'm completely skint and am not having happy times at all, so if you still want to give away some money, I'll happily aid you on your quest

[–] decoy000 8 years ago

he's just still in prison, everything is in his head, you're supposed to be spending the movie thinking, 'what's the big con gonna be? who is going to be the mastermind?' but with plenty a hint at the unreality of the situation. then it turns out in the last part that ~gasp~, the conman was conning himself but he was really the mastermind and he was actually conning himself and not himself!

very fun. although i'm sure you could write it off as symbolism if you like your stories a bit more concrete, but you'd be conning yourself.

[–] tsand-2 8 years ago

My thinking is that Jake is Dorothy.

Avi and Zach are demons of Jake's ID, tormenting his mental illness.

Gold is who Jake thinks Dorothy is...but is himself