The stepmother (contains spoiler) - Janghwa, Hongryun (2003) Discussion

[–] bill_kilgore 13 years ago

It's a very interesting point, because the perception we are given of the stepmother by Su-mi's imagination is that she is a complete bitch. We have no idea of what the father's relationship with his wife was like before the stepmother comes along. Perhaps the marriage was already over by then? Is it really certain that the stepmother was a homewrecker?

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[–] thomvic 13 years ago

Yeah it is left open to interpretation - the father and mother could have been going through a divorce for all we know. I think the stepmother probably did want to fit in but knew that it was sort of hopeless since the daughters would never accept her.

I like to think that the stepmother was racked with guilt for her actions in the last scene and perhaps that is why she was acting sympathetic to Su-Mi near the end when she comes to the house.

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[–] mibs_54 13 years ago

I disagree. When the stepmother is with Su-Mi in the mental institute it seems like she is putting on an act in front of the father to pretend that she cares about her. This is best shown when Su-Mi grabs her hand and she glances back to see if the father is still looking before she jerks her hand away. I think Su-Mi knows she has him wrapped under her finger.

We all need mirrors to remind ourselves who we are. I'm no different.

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[–] thomvic 13 years ago

I just watched that scene again - I think it is up to interpretation but yeah the camera does focus on the father when Su Mi grabs the stepmother's hand and she also says to her 'It's over now' - but at the same time you can also see this as her saying something along the lines like 'Your pain is all over - you'll be better since you're back here'

It can go both ways - when the stepmother is back at the house (even though some think it is a scene in Su-Mi's imagination) - you can see she is very tired and looks stressed on the table.

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[–] Jameron 13 years ago

I watched this film again last night, and I also have a point/question...

How do we know for sure that Eun-joo is in a relationship with Moo-hyeon (Su-mi's father)? I don't think we can be so sure.

In the final flashbacks it is clear that Su-mi and Su-yeon think there is something going on between Eun-joo and their father, when they watch them arrive in the car and then enter the house. We can see that Eun-joo and Moo-hyeon are friendly but that proves nothing. They know each other from where they work (as seen in the photos that Su-mi defaces). He looks over to them at the swings and looks a bit guilty, but that could just be guilt at his children witnessing him being almost happy when his wife is depressed and suicidal. No proof.

The scene where Eun-joo turns and decides to help Su-yeon out from under the wardrobe but is stopped by her interaction with Su-mi, gives me no clear indication either. Su-mi tells her that she suspects something is going on and accuses her of trying to take her mother's role "Why would you come up here. Dad's not here"/"What do you mean by that?"/"Now you're trying to act like mum". "What do you mean by that" is a denial of the accusation, even innocent people are allowed to deny things, lol. So there we have an accusation and a denial, no proof.

The scene at the table with just Eun-joo and Su-mi, where Eun-joo says "I'm the only one you can call mother, got it?" is just in Su-mi's head. No proof.

Also, the fact that Eun-joo is a total bitch is no proof of infidelity on the father's part. In fact I think it would have the opposite effect. His wife clearly wasn't a bitch, the loyalty the daughter's have is testimony to that. People tend to have a 'type' when it comes to affairs of the heart, so I'm suggesting he wouldn't go from a sensitive woman to a bitchy woman, just like that. Eun-joo may have designs on him, and try to hide that side of her nature, but in my experience it would show through. I don't think there is any evidence in the film that shows that he regards Eun-joo as anything more than a friend/colleague.

The scenes in the institution at the end, where Eun-joo and Su-mi are sitting on the bed and Su-mi grabs Eun-joo's arm and won't let go. Eun-joo glances over her shoulder at Moo-hyeon but tries to hide what is actually happening, could be interpreted as trying to shield Moo-Hyeon from even more pain. If he realises that Su-mi hasn't got a settled mental state then he could be troubled by abandoning her in the institution. Just a thought. I also agree with others when they say that Eun-joo's view of Su-mi could have softened because of the small amount of guilt she will accept for her part in all of this. In so much as she actually does seem to want Su-mi to recover.

I really wonder whether Su-mi is clinging to her unproven suspicions like a drowning man to driftwood. Massively guilt ridden by failing to save Su-yeon's life she creates an alternate reality where she can at least share the blame and guilt. At the height of her delusions she clearly blames her father for his part in the tragedy as well. In the cold light of day she probably knows that she made the wrong choice when she chose to tackle Eun-joo instead of investigating the noise. A truth she can't handle, and so runs from it.

If anyone has evidence of the relationship between Eun-joo and Moo-hyeon (the father) from the film please tell me.

I understand that this affair is what the film invites you to believe, but I was looking for proof.

I don't mind if I'm proven wrong, at least then I can stop thinking about it

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One last thing ... I love this film.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

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[–] thomvic 13 years ago

Yes you have made some good observations and conclusions, though of course it is up to interpretation.

I can't seem to find anything in the film that indicates that Eun-joo and Moo-heyon were ever in a relationship. When you see the scenes where Moo-heyon is on the phone to Eun-joo they never discuss anything about a relationship - it's almost as though he is consulting her as a professional doctor or something for advice.

In the flashback scenes, it seems everyone suspects there is an affair going on or it could have been that everyone knows about it, causing the wife to commit suicide in the cupboard as she can't bear it anymore. That scene where Eun-joo takes the spoon from Su-Yeong might just have been out of spite since she probably is upset that no one seems to sort of acknowledge her at all in the house - I mean did the stepmother come to the house as a colleague to help out with the mother's illness (did it say she was ill?) and then Su-Mi accused her of having an affair without any proof?

If anyone can find any evidence of the relationship - would really like to know too! I feel like watching the film again just to discover more hints - that's what makes this a great film.

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[–] overseer-3 13 years ago

The "stepmother" never wears a wedding ring. They could have just been living together after the mother's and Suyeon's deaths and Sumi's commiting to the asylum. Everyone was out of the way but that did not make Eunjoo happy. She has guilt and it's for a reason. She stood by and let a child die instead of calling for help or trying to lift the bureau off the girl. She was doing that just for petty spite and revenge against Sumi, because Sumi knew what her real motivation was for helping at the house with her depressed mother. She wanted to usurp the mother's role.

The father goes through the whole film never knowing the part Eunjoo played in his daughter's death. Maybe he didn't WANT to know, which makes him evil as well.

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[–] andreaswae 8 years ago

She could still be having an affair with their father, even without a wedding ring.

This sentence has nothing to do with what I just have written above.

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[–] RinaLou 12 years ago

"by - Jameron on Sat Oct 29 2011 08:38:31
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How do we know for sure that Eun-joo is in a relationship with Moo-hyeon (Su-mi's father)? I don't think we can be so sure.
If anyone has evidence of the relationship between Eun-joo and Moo-hyeon (the father) from the film please tell me"
_______________

You mean, apart from the fact that she keeps very personal things on moon-hyeon's bedroom, such as make-up stuff,lipsticks and sanitary towels ?
Let alone her cloths, which I suspect Su-mi must be wearing the night of the diner, hence the petrified look form father/guests as she walked down the stairs.
And the fact the the father invites and has a somewhat close relationship with Eun-joo's brother and girlfried..?
And the fact that they go shoping together and return home acting like lovebirds, (even if the relationship hasn't started yet), while the wife watches from the window and afterwards cry? Which in a way, the whole situation might have contributed to her suicide?
And apart from the fact that when Su-mi goes back to he hospital, they return home together...? Helloooo

As for the slippers and su-yeon.... apparently when you are in danger you ask for someone you love and cares about you. In this case, su-yeon hated the stepmother, was angry at her father, her mother..well...she couldn't help... that leaves us with her sister...
Besides, she could barely speak, and there was no point calling her stepmother, as she was already in the room....

To suggest that Su-mi was unbalanced, before her mother and sister died is silly. Since the whole point of the movie is to reveal you what started everything in the first place.

You overanalyze things. The movie was pretty clear about everything, except maybe a thing or two.

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[–] Jameron 12 years ago

"How do we know for sure that Eun-joo is in a relationship with Moo-hyeon (Su-mi's father)? I don't think we can be so sure.
If anyone has evidence of the relationship between Eun-joo and Moo-hyeon (the father) from the film please tell me" - Jameron

1. You mean, apart from the fact that she keeps very personal things on moon-hyeon's bedroom, such as make-up stuff,lipsticks and sanitary towels ?

2. Let alone her cloths, which I suspect Su-mi must be wearing the night of the diner, hence the petrified look form father/guests as she walked down the stairs.

3. And the fact the the father invites and has a somewhat close relationship with Eun-joo's brother and girlfried..?

4. And the fact that they go shoping together and return home acting like lovebirds, (even if the relationship hasn't started yet), while the wife watches from the window and afterwards cry? Which in a way, the whole situation might have contributed to her suicide?

5. And apart from the fact that when Su-mi goes back to he hospital, they return home together...? Helloooo" - RinaLou

1. You are aware that that was Su-Mi taking the lipstick off in the mirror, while she was projecting as Eun-Joo, right? Eun-Joo wasn't actually there, and so the makeup wasn't Eun-Joo's. It was probably Su-Mi's own makeup that she put on earlier, or the dead mother's makeup that the husband couldn't bring himself to get rid of. The sanitary towels were more likely to be the dead mother's towels that had just been left in the cupboard.

2. The clothes could be the dead mother's, they could be Su-Mi's own clothes. It's a bit of a leap to assume they were Eun-Joo's clothes. I think the petrified look was more to do with the way Su-Mi was giving them a beaming smile from the stairs, very creepy. Especially from someone you know is fairly unbalanced.

3. They were friends of the family, as we see from the flashback when Mi-Hee is helping to prepare the food in the kitchen. He invited them over because he was having a difficult time of it and wanted some normality, and support.

4. No, I'm sorry, you cite that scene where they return from shopping and then say "(even if the relationship hasn't started yet)" as proof that they are in a relationship? No, that scene only shows that they are friendly, and that Bae Moo-Hyeon feels guilty about forgetting his problems for a few minutes.

5. Yeah, except that I think that scene is all in Su-Mi's head. I don't think Eun-Joo returns home with Bae Moo-Hyeon at all. Even if they did go home together, are you saying that a man and a woman can't be in the same building without being in a relationship?

1 & 2 are 100% assumption.
3 is a misunderstanding of the relationship.
4 is an extrapolation from an innocent scene to one where you believe they are bumping uglies.
5 is an interpretation, not evidence.

I was asking for evidence, not interpretation.

"As for the slippers and su-yeon.... apparently when you are in danger you ask for someone you love and cares about you. In this case, su-yeon hated the stepmother, was angry at her father, her mother..well...she couldn't help... that leaves us with her sister...
Besides, she could barely speak, and there was no point calling her stepmother, as she was already in the room...." - RinaLou

I don't understand what point you are trying to make. Su-Yeon calling for Su-Mi has no bearing whatsoever on who wears which slippers.

To suggest that Su-mi was unbalanced, before her mother and sister died is silly. Since the whole point of the movie is to reveal you what started everything in the first place." - RinaLou

Where did I say that Su-Mi was unbalanced before the mother and Su-Yeon died?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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[–] Maxy-2 13 years ago

This and all the comments above are all intriguing, but has anyone listened to the director's commentaries? I have listened to the one he did with the two young leads. It was informative and entertaining, but I am not much clearer over whether the mother-in-law is actually real or a projection of Su-mi's mind. I think the latter is implied, especially as at one point the director points out that Su-mi, Su Yeon, and the step-mother all have their periods at the same time, implying that they are all one person (i.e. Su-mi). Or is that taken for granted by most viewers? The thing is, if the stepmother is a projection, then that means she never existed at all, because I think it would be too confusing to separate the real stepmother (except maybe in the scenes in the past and in the photos?) from the imagined stepmother. Any thoughts?

--------------------------------
'Life is in colour but black and white is
more realistic.'

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[–] overseer-3 13 years ago

Oh she exists all right. Near the end, in the flashback scene, BOTH girls see her enter the house with the father while they are sitting on the swings looking most unhappy (back before Suyeon's death). The father sees her leave the car and helps her with her luggage. The visiting aunt is in the kitchen when Sumi abruptly leaves the dinner table and the room and the aunt looks sad and concerned over the fight that just took place between Sumi and Eunjoo.

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[–] Jameron 13 years ago

"The thing is, if the stepmother is a projection, then that means she never existed at all" - Maxy-2

But the Su-yeon we see throughout most of the film is a projection, and we know she was real in the past.

As for the three women having their period at the same time indicating that they are in fact one and the same person, that is exactly my take on it, although I will gladly admit I missed the implications the first couple of times I watched the film.

"The "stepmother" never wears a wedding ring." - overseer-3

Well spotted, I hadn't noticed that

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I love how rewatchable this film is.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

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[–] overseer-3 13 years ago

Yes, it has unfathomable riches!

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[–] aj_coolest 12 years ago

Though you have posted months back, I am obliged to reply. Yours was the only comment in so many forums that came close to what I think is the real plot. the stepmother according to me exists only in photos. And perhaps in the first scene when she is brought home. I will even go to the extent of saying that Su Yeun was seen dying by Su Mi: two points support the fact, Su Yeun seen Su Mi's slippers through the gap while dying and keeps calling Su Mi's name. Secondly, that is the main reason for Su Mi to create her split personality in the form of her step mother as to get over her guilt for doing nothing after seeing her sister die. I clearly imply that Su Mi has always been mentally disturbed.

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[–] Jameron 12 years ago

"Su Yeun was seen dying by Su Mi: two points support the fact, Su Yeun seen Su Mi's slippers through the gap while dying and keeps calling Su Mi's name." - aj_coolest

I disagree; it is shown on screen that the slippers are worn by Eun-Joo, but in your theory that is Su-Mi and not Eun-Joo. So if the Eun-Joo we see is really Su-Mi projecting an alter ego to insulate herself from the horror of seeing her sister die, why do we see Eun-Joo interacting with others on the ground floor? In you theory, it would be Su-Mi downstairs preparing food and interacting with others, but believing that she is Eun-Joo. So then we hear the wardrobe falling over and Su-Mi, in the guise of Eun-Joo, walks upstairs, sees Su-Yeon, leaves, turns around to go back, and then confronts a projection of herself? Although this could be possible at a stretch, I fail to see how it would lend itself to a more tragic story. Not to mention that there is not one hint that Su-Mi has a history of mental illness.

And what do you mean by "...the stepmother according to me exists only in photos. And perhaps in the first scene when she is brought home." I presume by "she is brought home" you mean Su-Mi? So you think that the Eun-Joo we see after Su-Mi and Su-Yeon come back from the water is in fact real, but then mysteriously disappears and the father doesn't mention this? Or did I misunderstand?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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[–] overseer-3 12 years ago

It's just amazing to me how many mine fields are in this film to make people get all confused about what they are clearly witnessing during the film. I think the director and scriptwriter did this all on purpose; so incredibly brilliant!

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[–] aj_coolest 12 years ago

Firstly, on an afterthought, I wont to backtrack my lines. I came in terms with the fact that simply Eun Joo could be cruel enough to see the mother die. And no I did not mean what you thought I meant. I meant to project earlier that Eun Joo was present in the house but what we see upstairs is simply a projection of Su Mi. Having said that, I still think its plausible but on more rational grounds, I will go with the conventional belief that Eun Joo did see them die.

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[–] andreaswae 8 years ago

But when Su-Mi fights her projection in the end of the movie, there is a reference to the conversation in the flashback. From the plot synopsis:

"As Su-Mi regains consciousness, the stepmother asks her what brought them to this point and reminds Su-Mi of a conversation the two once had where the stepmother told her that one day Su-Mi would live to regret something and that no matter how hard Su-Mi would try to forget it, she would never be able to. The stepmother then proceeds to drop the statue on Su-Mi's head as the father returns."

This sentence has nothing to do with what I just have written above.

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[–] MariaDeluca 12 years ago

I honestly don't think the stepmother was really very sympathetic at all. I mean if you are sympathetic you can't watch a child literally dying under a cupboard I mean the girl was grasping with her hand. Now I think she may feel guilty because I for one think she was really seeing that ghost the girl that came for dinner even saw it. I think she feels guilty because she may be haunted by it but that is my opinion. Overall though I think she looks like that because she feels she won because Su Mi is in the hospital and she has the dad.

The way Su Mi grabs her hand at the end and the way she held it and her reaction to Su Mi not letting go gives away that she knows she did wrong but I just don't think she is the type of person to care too much because she got what she wanted she is living with the husband.

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[–] overseer-3 10 years ago

She's still not happy, even supposedly getting what she wanted. That's very typical of life in general. There's even an old Irving Berlin song on this very topic. "After You Get What You Want ... You Don't Want It!" LOL.

That scream we hear from Eun-joo is not a happy scream. heeeheee

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[–] 8 years ago

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