MovieChat Forums > The Apprentice (2004) Discussion > Fired for bad concept?

Fired for bad concept?

posted 8 years ago by yesmath
9 replies | jump to latest

To punish the person who came up with the idea only discourages anyone from bringing up any idea!!

The point is that no one else came up with a better idea, so if anything, it's the team's fault for being so limited, not that one person. (Of course, from Episode 2, they should've listened to the tall athlete's critique, so again its the fault of the rest of the team)

Just because that's the inane way Trump did it, doesn't mean they should carry that to this new version of the show. (I'm glad that in episode 1, Arnold didn't punish the team leader like Trump used to, recognizing that this person worked hard and took risks)

[–] kem7696 8 years ago

If the client doesnt like the commercial b/c of the concept, then yes that person should be fired, its not that hard to understand. If at my work I dont do what my boss want from me, then guess what they will fire me.

Lisa did speak up on this isnt the best idea, and they all shot her down, so really either the person who came up with the concept or the project manger should be fired.

[–] Hanz-Willhelm2 8 years ago

Yes, they've always done that. It is stupid. Idiotic.

It is usually VERY helpful and beneficial to have brain storming sessions. Anyone who knows anything about them knows they can lead to coming up with new and out of the box ideas. Lots of the ideas may be bad but it moves the process forward and may eventually lead to that one great idea as people feed off of each other.

To have it to where someone mentions an idea and the PM decides to latch onto that idea and go with it and then to come back and fire the person who threw out an idea. Utterly stupid. The PM is the one who thought it was a keeper instead of just saying lets keep bringing up other ideas.

It is the PM's job to come up with the idea. Their underlings can throw out suggestions, but it is the PM's job to come up with their own idea or be competent enough to hear several brainstorming ideas/suggestions and know when to reject them and what they've heard the "winning" idea and to seize it. Firing underlings for just suggesting possibilities....brainstorming to the one in charge of coming up with the winning plan is just stupid. You want your underlings to provide you with lots of ideas. It is the one in charges job to come up with their own good idea or to know which suggestions suck and to ignore and when they hear a good idea and to act.

Oh, this underling of mine suggested this idea so they should be fired. I was in charge and I could have gone any way I wanted or requested another 20-30 brainstorming ideas from my group but I'm innocent, they should go because they mentioned the idea out loud. I was stupid enough to run with that idea but it's their fault. Lame, lame, lame.

Lamar Jackson for Heisman!

[–] bing-57 8 years ago

> To punish the person who came up with the idea only discourages anyone from bringing up any idea!!

Well, yes and no. There is a risk and reward. If you come up with a bad idea, you are terminated, but, if you come up with a good idea that is poorly executed, you are safe.

And, in theory, even if your idea was poor, the project manager should still get fired since he/she approved the idea. Bad concepts have to be blamed on the project manager; poor execution can be blamed on the team members.

I am pretty sure that Carnie would have been fired anyway, even if she brought Kyle back to the boardroom. The only difference would have been a more lively final boardroom.

But, your original point is interesting to look at. Notice that, in two challenges now, nobody on either team volunteered to be the project manager -- even when the project was right in their wheelhouse. They all think that the risks are too great.

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What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

[–] Hanz-Willhelm2 8 years ago

No, not really. The person in charge is at risk. Not the individual team members under the person in charge who brainstorm ideas. If an ad agency comes up with a terrible idea for a firm and the firm leaves that agency the creative director who oversaw the campaign is at risk. The team of designers, and underlings under them who brain storm ideas to the creative director aren't the ones at risk. Brainstorming is good. The CD is the one in charge and paid the big bucks to come up with the best ideas. The people responsible for the campaign are at risk. If your team sits around and has a brainstorming session you don't fire someone for throwing out an idea that isn't perfect, that's what brainstorming is for. The person in charge is responsible for weeding through the bad ideas or the not perfect ideas to choose the best one.

The project manager chose to accept the idea and run with it. An underling on a creative team throwing out one possible idea to the creative director is a good thing, not a fireable thing. If it's not a good idea the manager's job is to reject and to keep exploring ideas until they come up with a winner. You are not differentiating between the one in charge of the project verses the worker bee, the underlings under the boss who brings up ideas to the boss while brain storming with the creative team UNDER the boss.

Lamar Jackson for Heisman!

[–] bing-57 8 years ago

> No, not really. The person in charge is at risk.

Well, that is pretty much what I said. I did say that Carnie should have been fired even if she brought Kyle back with her.

> If your team sits around and has a brainstorming session you don't fire someone for throwing out an idea that isn't perfect, that's what brainstorming is for.

In an actual corporate setting, that's absolutely true. But, that's not quite how this show is set up. Each team is made up of equals; no one is the boss and no one is an underling. Each player is on the show voluntarily and were chosen for their Type-A personality.

Now, for each specific project, of course, someone volunteers to be the leader. They are the boss for two days. But, that's just a title. Everyone knows that they have to perform well and be a stand-out, so they push their own agenda. If the boss gets too bossy, the underlings just shut down. Also, if the boss doesn't pamper the other celebrities, they also cause problems. It's a delicate dynamic not found in the regular corporate world.

Had Carnie brought back Kyle, Arnold would have explored whether Kyle simply proposed the idea -- among many other others -- during a brainstorming session or whether she pressed her idea hard and would not take 'no' for an answer. If she forced her idea on everyone, then she would get fired. Otherwise, Carnie is fired for selecting that poor idea from the pool of possible ideas.

Frankly, someone briefly mentioned the idea that would have been the star of the night; simply go out and film close-ups of people smiling and add footage of the gum. So, the first ten seconds is a montage of the celebrities handing out pieces of gum to random people on the street. The next ten is a montage of people popping the gum into their mouths and the last 40 seconds is a montage of those same people (and more ... be sure to include a clown) bursting out into a wide smile. Done!

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

[–] big_kmc 8 years ago

Trump would insist like with Lisa, if you are going to nix an idea, have another suggestion ready. I felt Lisa was subversive. The reason they were editing so late was b/c of her crappy shooting. But Carnie didn't know how to defend herself, that always bothers me about these types of show, seeing how poorly the average person can recall what actually happened to present a balance to the accusations leveled at them.

[–] Damian91 8 years ago

Honestly Carnie and even the concept creator COULD be on the show had Carnie brought HER back rather than Lisa. They could of easily defended their work together and left Snookie out to dry as "not helpful" in the opinions department.

[–] Riarcus 8 years ago

Lisa really should have came up with another idea or at least added to what they did to include more different smiles. That combined with initially messing up with shooting the video shows that she skated by on very thin ice.

[–] mamie-lou 8 years ago

I don't agree that Carnie brought Snooki back to the boardroom and was glad Snooki wasn't fired. Unlike in the first challenge, Snooki actually embraced what she was supposed to do and did a good job. She does need to speak up more, and will not get away with not answering the "who do you think should be fired" question for too long. I just loved the first challenge, the ladies were so polite to each other and didn't want to throw anyone under the bus, then all of a sudden the claws came out and they were all getting bitchy. Carrie outright lied though, denying she said what she said. I'm glad she got fired instead of the project manager. Carnie did deserve to be fired because she brought the wrong people back to the boardroom.