MovieChat Forums > Dead Like Me (2003) Discussion > The Gravelings and George

The Gravelings and George

posted 14 years ago by lonevision
21 replies | jump to latest

George has had a "special relationship" with the Gravelings ever since she was a kid, yet its never mentioned or developed (that I can remember).

Was George one of those rare death cancellations? Was she, as a little kid, intended to die by drowning when that little brat pushed her in the pool? We see those two Gravelings at the bottom, and she can see them. The two gravelings seem to communicate with each other as they watch her. One of them seems to smile at her (I think?) then follows his buddy down into the pool filter (the same entrance we see another take when it causes the old man to die on the diving board).

She can still see the Gravelings when she goes to the murderer's house in the halloween episode, like a warning. And later she poofs Graveling-Ray into nonexistence. Thought that was gonna become a more interesting story arc since Daisy mentioned that Mason should be more afraid... (cut for budget reasons, I guess). How did she even think she could do that? Just figured she'd try it?

Just seems like maybe George was supposed to do something more substantial with the Gravelings....

George... Queen of the Gravelings... summoning the little fiends at will, having them live in her house, wrecking havok at Happy Time, sending them loose on her enemies... or people she just really really dislikes.

[–] vbel 14 years ago

I don't think George was supposed to drown. The Graveling is most likely telling the other one that it's the wrong girl. I think George was meant to be a reaper and she wouldn't have been able to do it at that young age. "Something happened and it changed both our lives forever" - Beth Ann lived (and became a brat) and George saw the Gravelings for the first time, proof that she was indeed different from other children. She wasn't afraid of the Gravelings. I don't think there's any more to it.

[–] Danioton 14 years ago

The last time, vbel, we had the go around about whether young George in the pool saw the gravelings, I drafted one of my offspring to look at the scene and render judgement.

He thought she saw them.

I tried offering an incentive (i.e. a bribe), but he still said she saw them.

It still looks to me like she didn't see them. ANY kid that age who saw anything close to a graveling would have a more energetic reaction.

Also after George dies and Rube explains what that graveling thing is in the pilot, she doesn't evidence any memory (how could you forget seeing a gravelings?!?!) or familiarity with gravelings. It appears something new to her.

I do agree that young George wasn't supposed to drown. The other girl was, and we didn't see the reaper in any case.

Mason mentioned in the pilot that some reapers believe you are predestined to become a reaper. The phrasing seems to me intended to leave the issue ambiguous.

As far as the how and why of George's dusting the Rayling, it's one of the open ended issues probably never to be resolved. It could have been a opening to some new subplot with George, or maybe the writers knew or suspected things were going to end soon and needed a way to tie up the Rayling loose end quickly.

[–] vbel 14 years ago

In the scene with Rube, she's just beginning to put two and two together.

In the swimming pool scene she's looking right at 'em.

In the Halloween scene the adult George is remembering seeing the killer AND the graveling.

Memory fails, why were they all able to see the Rayling???

[–] Danioton 14 years ago

The producers/writers weren't consistent in their treatment of gravelings.

In early episodes Reapers can see Gravelings only out of the Corner of the Eye (5/101 = 5th rule first seen in first episode of season one ). Also early on Gravelings seem to have a role as enforcers (6/102) keeping Reapers in line. When George tests the limits of her duties and tries to quit, Rube warns her to look out and George is harassed relentlessly by Gravelings in her room where she takes refuge from the objectionable things impacting her (much as she did in life). During this episode it seems George can see the Gravelings directly. However, in episode 113 'Vacation' Rube and all the Reapers look out of the corner of their eyes to get a look at some Gravelings in a nearby booth. Later, the next episode 114 'Rest in Peace', for example, in the cemetery it seems all the Reapers can see nearby Gravelings directly (7/104) but, by the second season there is no doubt they all see Gravelings.

The Ray Graveling Rule (64/212) is interesting because we don’t know what the rule is. Ray is killed by Mason without a Postit and a Graveling, or Rayling, pops out, starts harassing Daisy and Mason, scaring the sh*t out of both. Daisy says she’s seen this sort of thing before without explaining although her fear is obvious.

This leads to another interesting but unclear rule when the Rayling is reaped by George (65/214) and there’s no soul he just turns to dust. Is this something only George can do, or can any Reaper take out a Graveling? Some fans noted that George got an unresolved postit that day – was this for the Rayling? Why wouldn’t she remark to both Daisy and Mason about it? Why wouldn’t Rube say something since he wrote out he postit?

Ronnie Dobbs was crazy and it made for a great story.

[–] vbel 14 years ago

Do you think that only evil people, like Ray, become Gravelings? This would seem to create too many rogue Gravelings.
Would it be the reapers responsibility to take them out? Doubtful, as Rube never mentioned it. But they sure took off fast when he yelled at them in the cemetary.

We missed so much by not having a season three. I really wonder if Rube and Joy would have had a storyline. Maybe he would have helped her through her grief.

[–] Danioton 14 years ago

"Gravelings are something new, existing with the Reapers in between the living and the other side. The Reapers are closer to the living, and the Gravelings are unattractive little creatures that seem designed to take the brunt of any emotional fallout from all the dying going on both for the audience and for the Reapers. Gravelings Kill/Reapers Collect (4/101): Gravelings trigger actual deaths whereas Reapers just collect souls and then escort them to their ‘lights’, which whisk them off to the other side. Gravelings are mostly spirit with the ability to move the physical to bring about the deaths of those whose time has come. Reapers are mostly physical with some ability to interact with the spirit side. While Gravelings are efficient at bringing about the fated end of a person’s life, they are not a natural candidate to greet a disoriented soul right after death and help overcome the immediate disorientation and then to guide them along to their lights. In several cases it’s clear that some souls will linger if not pushed to move along. Thus Reapers perform a vital function in the orderly transition to the afterlife. We know Reapers come from the living, but no attempt is made to explain where Gravelings come from."
from this thread:http://www.deadlikememovie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=516

The Rayling arising out of a dead Ray seems something contrived in the writing room and there's just no way of knowing what the producers/writers were intending to do with gravelings in a 3rd season and beyond - if anything.

It's a rare series (tv or book) that doesn't suffer from escalation- when they add more characters and the stakes keep getting bigger, conspiracies wider and more devious - episode by episode, season by season - until they tip into boring. The Rayling was a little bit of escalation perhaps.

I think the original conception of / reason for gravelings was entirely to divert the audience from too closely linking the reapers with causing death. So that we could focus on and sympathize with them as ordinary people thrown into a very supernatural situation. If it were up to me I would keep gravelings as they are and keep the focus on the reapers and their frequent intersection with all sorts of people at their deaths, and in George's case her continued 'haunting' of her family. Actually if it were up to me/for me I would put the gravelings further to the background - as in the original - something only seen out of the corner of the eye, or, even leave them unmentioned entirely unless the episode story absolutely has to have a graveling.

And I totally agree with you on Rube and Joy. After Rube buried his daughter and basically surrendered to George's point of view on more contact with living family and the living in general (?) it would have been a natural progression to have them drawn to each other. Rube would have been another possible pathway for interaction between George (Millie) and Joy that would have created some intriguing dialogue between dead daughter and living mother (thinking like 'Sunday Mornings' George and Clancy).

Found this article today:
http://www.ology.com/screen/top-five-shows-canceled-too-soon
with this quote:
"Bryan Fuller has a history of creating and running shows that get killed before their time. His brilliant series Wonderfalls never made it out of season one, and though Dead Like Me received a few years, one can't help but think that the current national obsession with Vampires and Zombies would have helped a show about grim reapers (I'm not sure why that follows logically in my head, but it does)."

I believe that reapers with their combination of being so normal and so supernatural simultaneously, and their daily run ins with people at the end of their lives have far more potential for really engaging story telling than vampires.

[–] vbel 14 years ago

One of the few things I liked about the movie was how George steered clear of her family for a couple of years, though not keeping tabs on her sister must have been really hard for her to do. It would have been cool if Rube was the one person that was able to help Joy. Remember how Joy's mother screamed at her? Rube was always calm, even when his patience was stretched to the limit by Mason.

[–] Danioton 14 years ago

That's an interesting angle.

In between the end of S2 and the Movie there are several years - five - during which by flashbacks or whatever, we learn Rube was the key person to help Joy with her final adjustments (calm state we see in the Movie) even as George stayed completely away. Role reversal.

[–] vbel 14 years ago

He was a reader. Maybe he told her to write the book.

[–] sirmastersephiroth 14 years ago

With regards to the pool scene, I always thought that one of the Gravelings knew that George was going to be a reaper and told the other Graveling. The other Graveling then gives George a knowing smile, as if telling George "See you soon," and then the Gravelings leave together.

[–] vbel 14 years ago

George was supposed to push Beth Ann in. She wouldn't do it because she was too nice (despite her reputation). Beth Ann did it to become popular with the other girls. George didn't care about being popular. You can tell by the scene where they're both sitting on the edge of the pool and by the way the girl gives her the finger. The Graveling were there for Beth Ann.

[–] lonevision 14 years ago

How do you know the Gravelings were there for Beth Ann?

[–] vbel 14 years ago

Because when they saw that it was George they took off.

[–] bluerisk 14 years ago

Evil people = hell

Semi bad people = gravelings till the guilt is redeemed

Semi good people = reapers till their guilt or wahrever is balanced out

normal/good people = heaven

Just a theory.

PS: Did they ever show what happen to bad people they reap, or is there a speacial form of reapers for them or is it completely left out/unexplained.

Does everybody have the chance to redeem him/herself over the time as reaper (or graveling)?

Ich bin kein ausgeklügelt Buch, ich bin ein Mensch mit seinem Widerspruch.
Conrad Ferdinand Meyer

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] vbel 13 years ago

It's also the reason that she doesn't start swimming (or trying to swim), she's watching the gravelings.

[–] TheColossalAvenger 13 years ago

PS: Did they ever show what happen to bad people they reap, or is there a speacial form of reapers for them or is it completely left out/unexplained.

There's definitely not a special kind of reaper for evil people. In the final episode, one of the character's is a serial killer (for real, not as a costume) and he was George's reap.

It's been a while, so I can't remember whether or not George actually reaps the serial killer. Regardless, we don't see what his lights are. I do remember someone writing a fanfic based on that where his "lights" was basically hell. But of course as for the actual show, we weren't shown.

[–] vbel 13 years ago

She gave her "If some people knew how often they came close to death..." monologue as she remembered her encounter with him and the graveling as a child. How the killer was about to grab her just as her mom called.

Did gravelings hang out at his house or does the same graveling wait around for him to die even if it takes many years?

She reaped him, crumpled up his post-it and tossed it.

[–] Danioton 13 years ago

In 'Reaping Havoc' 105 Mason sits with an old woman as they wait for her the last bit of life to leave her body and they talk at length. She teaches him to forge her signature (to cash her government checks) and Mason takes over her house that he eventually gives to Daisy and George.

Mason explains to the old lady about the lights and mentions that they're 'not always pretty'. This is one of the few - maybe only - time in the series when the writers hint that in the DLM universe the crossing over into the lights might be less than a positive fulfilling experience for the newly dead soul.

[–] vbel 13 years ago

Jackie Burroughs passed away in 2010 at 71. She was the exception to the rule in Hollywood, often cast because she looked older than she really was.

[–] dannytipograf 12 years ago

This is an interesting idea, I'd love to see George the Apathetic with such powers and how she would exercise them. However, I do think that the point of the show is that the reapers don't have any supernatural abilities, or at least as few as possible (Roxy shows us the exception of soul-grabbing), that's kind of like the thing that builds the entire attitude of the show. With the Grim Reaper, cloaked and hooded, armed with a scythe, exactly like the intro of the show, but just as powerless as everyone around him/her, sometimes even significantly more pathetic than most of everyone around them. That seems to be the point of the powerlessness. But I do like the idea, for a different show or a branch-off or something perhaps.