After 19 years since its debut in 1989, DreamWorks has finally secured the rights to adapt the Japanese manga and anime series Ghost in the Shell into a 3D live-action feature film. Both Universal and Sony were also chasing the rights, but Steven Spielberg himself took a personal interest in it and made sure it ended up in the hands of his company - DreamWorks. Spielberg says that Ghost in the Shell is one of his favorite stories and is "a genre that has arrived and we enthusiastically welcome it to DreamWorks."
I think it's great that an intelligent series like this is going to have a big name attached to it; and hopefully it will actually retain its type of storytelling. It's actually pretty surprising to hear that from Spielberg. It's more or less a scifi, yes, but very different from his mode direction. But it's just as likely that he'll just produce it.
What I'm wondering is what version or versions has he seen?
He says he likes the story. That could mean a lot of different things, and those would vary by, among other factors, what version he's thinking of. For instance, the first movie focused far more on Major Kusanagi, and he could think of the story as being about a female cyborg fighting high-tech criminals; the TV series gives slightly more attention to Kusanagi than to anyone except maybe Batou, but she's only a small fraction of it. So it could be like the difference between the Mission Impossible movies (with their constant fellating of Tom Cruise) and the TV series (as I vaguely remember it).
I for one, hate the idea of turning anime into live action movies, and I hope this isn't true because it will destroy the franchise in the US.
It's very difficult to adapt an anime about the inner workings and conspiracies going on within the Japanese government in such a way that doesn't require a basic understanding of the culture and the way their government works. Most Americans don't have that understanding and don't care. As a result, they'll end up changing the setting to the US, dumbing everything down, and changing it into a CGI explosionfest. That will absolutely ruin the spirit of the original product.
I also think Speilberg won't have anything to do with the creative process of this film. I think he'll have some sort of "brought to American audiences by..." credit, then sit back and collect his paycheck and back-end points.
It'll just take an unreceptive audience for one anime based movie (like the upcoming Speed Racer) and all of them will get shelved.
"It's very difficult to adapt an anime about the inner workings and conspiracies going on within the Japanese government in such a way that doesn't require a basic understanding of the culture and the way their government works. "
That would only matter if you wanted it to be like 2nd Gig. The US doesn't really have any conflict analogous to the conservative/neo-imperialists vs. everyone else. The closest we have is the "THE SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN" crowd. And that isn't really culturally close enough for it to be enough to really "get" it. Maybe with a little background on some of the incidents that have arisen from it, but I doubt that would be good enough.
Oh, and Solid State Society...that's probably pretty hard to "get" if you don't know anything about Japan's demographic problems. (But if you wanted to westernize it, first of all, it is conceivable, and 2nd, you could probably give it the same impact if you made the Veterans Administration.)
I don't think Americans would have a hard time following the Laughing Man storyline, as the US's drug approval process (at least as laymen like me understand it) seems similar enough to that that nothing about that conspiracy would be difficult to understand after the details are laid bare.
And the Puppetmaster storyline wouldn't be a problem either, nor would a lot of the "stand alone" storylines from the TV series.
The plot from Innocence, though...that was a little bizarre regardless.
When I mentioned that the average American doesn't understand the how the Japanese government or the culture work, that's literally what I meant. Americans don't really understand how a bureaucratic parliamentary governmental system works, nor do they understand the concept of living in a "shame culture." Both of those concepts seem too foreign to most Americans.
I wasn't thinking of 2nd Gig when I said that, because that lack of context applies to all of the GITS media. If you remove the culture from the plot, it fundamentally alters the characters, with the possible exception of Kusanagi. If you change the governmental system from a parliamentary to a federal system, the conspiracies won't really work.
The obvious target audience, fans of the anime and manga, have already seen the previous media, and would be less likely to want to see something old rehashed in a new package. People who aren't fans of the anime, in all likelihood aren't going to want to see it quite as much in the first place. (Anyone who has ever tried to convince a friend who isn't into anime to watch for it the first time knows this.)
In the end, a new story with a new setting isn't really Ghost in the Shell, it's some crappy American knock-off with the Ghost in the Shell name slapped on it.
"I wasn't thinking of 2nd Gig when I said that, because that lack of context applies to all of the GITS media. If you remove the culture from the plot, it fundamentally alters the characters, with the possible exception of Kusanagi. If you change the governmental system from a parliamentary to a federal system, the conspiracies won't really work."
Not any of the main characters, it doesn't. None of them faced any scandal situations which wouldn't destroy them in exactly the same way if they were Americans as if they were Japanese. And not ALL of the ancillary characters did either.
You do not need to know how a parliamentary system works to follow ANY of it except MAYBE 2nd Gig, and the "shame culture" is only a source of conflict...and if you can still recognize that there IS conflict, it doesn't really matter where it came from. Seriously, spare me the bread culture/rice culture crap. (It rarely applies, and doesn't apply here)
While I would like to make a rebuttal to your assertions, I can see that any attempt at further discussion on this point is moot, as my arguments will inevitably and unjustifiably end up branded as "crap." As such I'll leave you to your thread. There's obviously no room for dissenters here.
You could start with a specific example. Because without that, that's what it looks like. There's plenty of "westerners just don't understand Japanese culture and that is why anime is not mainstream" going around in anime fandom and has been for decades. And there has been a tendency in Asian expatriate communities to dismiss any disagreement/misunderstanding between two parties on either side as an east/west divide never to be crossed, regardless of whether that is in fact the nature of the problem.
Since you didn't want to be specific as to what the alleged problem is, it looked like you were falling into that trap/leaning on that crutch.
You're free to dissent, just please do so in a meaningful fashion.
First of all, I’m not an Asian expatriate as you unjustifiably assumed. Second, I didn’t cite specific examples because I’m operating under the assumption that you’re not as familiar with comparative constitutional law as I am. Basically I didn’t feel like explaining how the two systems of government work in contrast with each other. But since you asked, I’ll explain briefly why the US wouldn’t make a good setting for a Ghost in the Shell feature.
1) Why the Laughing Man storyline wouldn’t work.
The FDA is too dissimilar from the Drug Evaluation Board depicted in SAC. In contrast to SAC’s approval system, no single person makes a decision on approval or denial of approval. Additionally, not only does the FDA employ its own system of testing new products, it often relies on findings of independent laboratory trials in making its decisions.
The American DEA is not an enforcement branch of the FDA. The DEA is a subordinate organization of the Department of Homeland Security, while the FDA falls under the purview of the Department of Health and Human Services. Unlike SAC, the FDA can’t just call in the DEA to deal with its problems without jumping some major constitutional hurdles. Jumping those hurdles would draw too much attention.
Yakushima’s actions can’t happen in the U.S. In a federal system, legislators do not and in fact are constitutionally forbidden from wielding powers reserved to the executive branch. He wielded the commander-in-chief power by calling in the Umibozu against Section 9, and he also wielded chief executive powers when he directed the DEA to raid the Sunflower Society and to kill Imakurusu. The Secretary General of the Japanese Diet is an office most similar to Senate Majority Leader or Speaker of the House, both of which are legislative positions. These actions require collusion by far too many people if one were to try to cover it up, and given the scrutiny under which the members of the highest level of government live here, it’s just not possible. Here’s a bit of cultural trivia on that point: Japanese citizens trust their government a lot more than we trust ours. There’s nowhere near the same level of press scrutiny on leaders there.
Serrano, as a whistleblower, would have immunity from prosecution for his actions in the conspiracy. Since the reason for his silence was fear of going to prison, and his company would be hurt by the conspiracy if it continued, he would have no reason not to come forward immediately.
2) Why the Individual Eleven storyline wouldn’t work
The Cabinet Intelligence Service would never exist. Again, this type of organization would violate the separation of powers. It’s a creation of the legislature, which spies on government activities as well as private citizens. Congress would exceed its authority in even the attempt to create such an agency. Even as an executive branch agency, because it lacks a clearly mandated purpose and any governmental oversight, the CIS would still be illegal.
Nuclear materials would never be left behind. A major point in the 2nd Gig’s conspiracy is the theft of fissionable material from a nuclear power plant in bombed out Tokyo. There are several regulatory agencies in place in the US that keep tabs on such materials. Also, owing to the risk of having it fall into terrorist hands, the government would reclaim the materials itself, and would do so immediately after the plant goes offline rather than waiting several years to do it.
The refugee policies would fail judicial scrutiny. The 14th Amendment and the US Code prohibit governmental discrimination on the basis of national origin. The society of the US may be a bit insular, but (and here’s another bit of Japanese culture for you) the Japanese are FAR more insular than the US. Sentiments won't run as hot as quickly, which would give the government time to react and find solutions.
At this point, I feel I’ve made my argument that conspiracies which work in a country with a one-branch government would not work in a nation with separated powers, so I’ll move on.
3) Cultural issues affecting the characters
Batou, Ishikawa, and Saito all joined Section 9 after having combat experience, to varying degrees, with or against the Major. In the US, there is a military policy that precludes women from serving in military posts that are likely to engage in combat. If the Major were prevented from seeing combat under this policy, the three Section 9 members would not have met her, and would likely not respect her in the same way (especially Batou, who seems to be something of a sexist meathead even after having known the Major for years). This changes the dynamic of the team, and means it’s not the same Section 9 we know and love.
Aramaki would likely not hold his office in the US. Section 9 is an agency subordinate to the Ministry of Home Affairs, which is roughly equivalent to the American Department of Homeland Security. No matter what the department, he’s an appointee rather than having been elected. In Japan, an elderly man holding an appointed position in government simply because he doesn’t want to retire is normal. In the US, those in the position to appoint someone else to Chief of Section 9 wouldn’t “respect his honor” and let him retire on his own. Someone his age, upon the election of someone to whom he isn’t politically favorable, would be replaced. He’s not seen as “respected elder,” he’s seen as “senile old man,” no matter what his competence may be.
You're free to disagree, but remember that calling someone's opinion "crap" simply because of who you happen to think they are is not conducive to civilized discourse.
It would seem the only assumption I've made is correct: that you don't have an in-depth understanding of the differences between the two political systems. Otherwise you would have addressed the arguments I made in a genuine response rather than resorting to indirect ad hominem attacks.
As the thread has degenerated into something less than an exchange of valid ideas, I can see that nothing constructive will come of any continuation of it.
This entire argument is based on the assumption that the movie will be a re-telling of the Stand Alone Complex storyline. I don't know why that would be the case.
The examples I used were based on Stand Alone Complex. The concepts on which I relied in bringing those examples to light are not.
My arguments are: 1) That the current GITS storylines will not work in a system of government with divided powers, and 2) That the characters will need to be tweaked or significantly altered to fit in with the American mainstream audience, rather than one with a more metropolitan understanding of international culture
The extension of my argument to its conclusion: a GITS feature with a Japanese setting would most likely not work for a mainstream American audience, and a feature with an American setting will be written to cater to a mainstream American audience, rather than hardcore fans of the manga and anime. It will end up as a dumbed-down action movie, rather than what we all know it can be.
For that reason, I hope the article cited by the original poster is simply a rumor.
and if you really think hollywood care enough to not twist and turn GitS into it's own monster, simply ignoring or glossing over the details you've listed....
then you're slightly naieve. It doent matter if the american GitS wouldnt work in reality, it doesnt have to.
You seem to be confusing the evidence I'm using with the point I'm using it make. The point I'm trying to make is exactly that Hollywood doesn't care about the integrity of this franchise, and WILL contort it into its own bastardized product.
All the things I listed earlier were to show examples that the plot wouldn't work right, which would necessitate a rewrite. A rewrite--no doubt done by some Hollywood writer who lacks familiarity with the manga and the anime--would be of a lesser quality than what we're used to.
Given that I'm arguing that Hollywood WOULD make substantial changes, I fail to see how that makes me naive.
When I first heard about this, I thought it was "just alright", because at least Spielberg is a seasoned director. But then I thought about it and there's one problem with it.
I don't actually LIKE his movies that much. All of them are too "Hollywood". I think that in order to make a proper version of GitS, you need a more avant-garde director. David Boyle or something. Not him specifically, just an example. Actually, David Boyle probably wouldn't be too shabby.
my hope for this GITS adaption is that another Aeon Flux fiasco doesn't occur and for whatever reason gets torpedoed by its own studio the way Aeon was. i liked aeon flux but apparentely someone at Paramount didn't.
i think it would be safe to assume the film would have its own origin story and continuity the way the SAC series took the premise of the puppet master never existing. an alternate take on the story if you will. i do wonder what the setting will be... i hope its not america but japan not only all related media (the magna, movies, t.v. show, even the 2004 video game) were based there. as detracting as it may be for our u.s. audience, a setting there would be true to the source and creator. yes, the danger for the studio, producer, writer, and director to dumb it down to a completely mindless blow em' up is ever present, but if you remember the magna itself was streamlined for the 1995 feature. the t.v. series allowed the exploration of topics and the world even a 3hr. feature couldn't.
that being said(typed?), one has to wonder who could even come close to filling out the combat boots of the major and the guys of section 9? megastars? unknowns? it'll be intersting and definately debatable when they finally are announced.
on a final note, i just want to say i am wary about this being translated into live action. i just wish they went ahead and do a cg animated film. only if dreamworks could convince me that make this as good as Transformers.
If Stephen Spielberg likes it, and is hopefully involved in a meaningful way with it, then I will be happy. I've got complete faith in Spielberg (I thought the newest Indiana Jones was a bit off the mark but I still liked it).