Can someone explain the 'pre-wedding flight' scene? - The Good Shepherd (2006) Discussion

[–] Ilario1 16 years ago

Not sure, but I guess the people she was spying for had her eliminated. Marrying the son of Edward was probably viewed as a betrayal. Who knows what info she would have entually revealed. Of course, all of this is just a guess based on the circumstances. I recorded it last night and plan to watch it again. The first time I watched it all the way through I wasn't planning on liking as much as I did. This time I'll pay more attention.

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[–] williams-59 16 years ago

You guys have missed it. Remember the audio and vidoe recording that Edward Sr had his techs analyzing? There are two people in the room. Edward Sr finds out that one was his son and the other was a Congolese girl. He found that out when his Russian counterpart, Ulysseus, told him so. Edward Jr. told the Congolese girl about some of the aspects of the planned Bay of Pigs invasion. Edward Jr. did not know she was a Russian asset. There is a posting on this film about who ordered the girl's death. The CIA or the KGB? That the scene you all are talking about.

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[–] Ilario1 16 years ago

did anyone come up with a definitive answer or is all conjecture?

I watched this again and I still can't say if the CIA ordered it. But in the scene at the Church where Edward Jr. is waiting for his bride his dad walks up to him and then Angelina asks "What have you done?" The son asks him something and he says No, I love you very much. I took that to meant that Edward did not order the hit. He could have been lying.

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[–] williams-59 16 years ago

It's all conjecture. Who benefits more from her death? CIA or KGB? I do not know. She is clearly compromised, in that Edward Sr. knows who she is and who she works for. Does Ulysseus do Edward Sr. a favor by killing her? By killing her, Edward Jr cannot marry her, thus preventing Edward Sr from having to deal with a Russian asset married to his son. Edward Sr. would then owe Ulysseus a favor down the road. I do not know. In my opinion, just my opinion, when an asset becomes compromised, I believe that the agency(CIA or KGB)for whom the asset works takes care of their own problem. If she had married Edward Jr. she would have been of no value to the KGB anymore. Remember early on in the movie the Brits takes care of their problem, the professor. All of this leads to my posting on this movie about Edward Jr. working for the CIA. Clearly, this would be a situation the Agency would want to avoid. Too easy to place Sr. or Jr. in compromising situations.

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[–] Ilario1 16 years ago

It was on again last night. So I watched specifically for those scenes. With all honesty, I believe the ambiguity was intentional. I still don't believe Edward ordered it but he was definitely not against it.

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[–] williams-59 16 years ago

I agree with you on both points, the ammbiguity and your point about Edward.

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[–] spookyrat1 12 years ago

Yes that's my take on it too.

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[–] lemner 11 years ago

I think the dollar bill gift was the signal he wanted it done by the Russians, which means he owes them a favor.

Semper Contendere Propter Amoram et Formam

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[–] dmedinacooper 11 years ago

Exactly. As the CIA now knew she was a Russian spy, her usefulness to the Russians was at an end. To stay on good terms with Edward and the CIA, the Russians take her out so she won't marry Edward's son and Edward doesn't have to have any relationship with a spy who cost them so many lives in Cuba. The Russians took out the hit with Edwards's approval.

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[–] SteveH2002 12 years ago

It's all conjecture. Who benefits more from her death? CIA or KGB? I do not know. She is clearly compromised, in that Edward Sr. knows who she is and who she works for. Does Ulysseus do Edward Sr. a favor by killing her? By killing her, Edward Jr cannot marry her, thus preventing Edward Sr from having to deal with a Russian asset married to his son. Edward Sr. would then owe Ulysseus a favor down the road. I do not know. In my opinion, just my opinion, when an asset becomes compromised, I believe that the agency(CIA or KGB)for whom the asset works takes care of their own problem. If she had married Edward Jr. she would have been of no value to the KGB anymore.

The very fact that she was a KGB asset who compromised the son of a high ranking CIA official is of value to the KGB, even if she doesn't remain an asset. It, the audio tape and the photographs, is something that Ulysses could hold over Edward Sr. for as long as the couple were together. I think it was much more in CIA's interest to neutralize her, much as it was for the sake of security that the German interpreter was assassinated, and, to a lesser extent, Edward Sr.'s rekindled affair was terminated (symbolized by the return of the gold crucifix.) I had no doubt, while watching the airplane scene, that Edward Sr. ordered it.

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[–] SpencersMomInPA 9 years ago

Agreed - after all, she was "a stranger in our house" to the CIA and she was responsible for passing along the Bay of Pigs strategy that Edward, Jr. leaked to her. Edward, Sr. did not want her in his family.

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[–] gael-thoreau 16 years ago

Well, yes, she was a spy. She is the one who made Ed Jr speaks on the bed, leaking the pig's bay. Ulysses tells Edward Sr that she was one of their assets for some time... untill she fell in love, "even spiex fall in love".

I am pretty sure (personal opinion) that Sr ordered the hit, answering Ulysses question: "do you want her in your family?"

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[–] williams-59 16 years ago

In my opinion, just my oopinion, Sr. does not order the hit. I think the Russians have a larger operation in Africa at the time and are in more control down there and Ulysses ordered the hit, as a favor to Sr.

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[–] Kawada_Kira 10 years ago

I think the Russians have a larger operation in Africa at the time and are in more control down there

That's pure conjecture on your part. The CIA was heavily active in Africa, especially the Congo, because it's a resource-rich region that Western capitalists wanted to maintain control over. They overthrew and murdered the great anti-colonial leader Patrice Lumumba, and put the right-wing Mobutu regime in power in his place. They then brought in white mercenaries from South Africa and Europe and right-wing Cuban exiles to fight against the Lumumbist fighters trying to restore the free government in Eastern Congo. The Soviet role in Africa at that time was negligible. In fact, African freedom fighters and their allies like the Cubans and Chinese criticized the USSR for providing insufficient support to African revolutionaries, because Khrushchev was trying to improve ties with the West so he could reduce the military burden on the Soviet economy and shift resources to economic development.

Anyway, this film is of course a Hollywoodized version of history so we have to take many things in it with a pinch of salt.

 Sig under construction 

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[–] AtheistRevolution 15 years ago

Its been some time since I've seen this movie. But didn't they give Edward(Damon) a choice to either kill her or let her live?

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.

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[–] pradeepanonline 15 years ago

agree with the other posters. but there is no way someone can open a door in a small airplane without causing trouble to themselves.. think abt the air pressure rushing out fast.

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[–] ClearwaterBeach 15 years ago

Unlike larger jets, small propeller planes are usually not pressurized, especially older ones like the one in the movie. So there's nothing stopping you from opening the door if you really want to do it -- you just open all the locks and the door opens right up.

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[–] franzkabuki 11 years ago

The editor and second unit director covertly orchestrated it behind De Niro`s back because they were fed up with the good director`s fetish of black chicks getting together with white dudes.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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[–] Timmian_The_German 10 years ago



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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] barry70 10 years ago

My interpretation was that it was a Russian attempt to personally hurt Mother aka Matt Damon, after he told his Russian counterpart that he would not betray the USA and become an informant to the Russians.

Considering Mother's choice was between his country and his son, yet he still chose his country indicated to the Russians that they needed to approach the situation differently. Instead of merely killing the son, they decided to ruin his, and his family's (as we saw a rare happy family scene just before the plane murder) big day. That, and the lasting effect it would have on Mother's son, would arguably be a worse blow to Mother than the one-off event of his son's death. The guilt Mother will feel knowing his involvement in the Russian-US conflict brought about the ruination of his son's happiness would, the Russians hope, weigh heavily on him.

I think the Russians were proved right considering the apologetic letter Mother wrote to his family (although I'm not sure what the burning of that letter was supposed to mean). The following scenes of Mother entering the new CIA building also indicated that his stance against the Russians had been solidified. He is the chief now and he's going to make sure he wins the war.

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[–] HajiAltair 10 years ago

You missed that Ulysses wants a favor from Edward Sr, probably he senses that Soviet is going to fall and wants to be able to defect to America. That's why he was talking so much about friendship. So he doesn't want to make Edward angry by hurting his family, in fact he wants Mother to remain successful.

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[–] akmoulton 10 years ago

I think the Russians were proved right considering the apologetic letter Mother wrote to his family (although I'm not sure what the burning of that letter was supposed to mean).

That was the suicide note his father wrote that he put in his pocket as a boy on the night his father killed himself. He'd kept it unopened his whole life.

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