This is truly an excellent movie. I like how it stays pretty morally relativist and allow the viewer to see that Wuornos actually was a monster.
I for one are am very glad that she's dead. It's a proven fact no murderer who receives the death penalty had ever re-offended.
Theron earned her Oscar with this one.
I don't think she should have been given the death penalty. She should have rotted in a jail cell for the rest of her useless, rotten life.
"Lets keep in mind something about this movie. Its based on the story SHE gave?"
Actually there have been numerous other people who have testified to her abusive childhood; a woman at one of her hearings testified she witnessed her grandfather brutally beating her (and she said she witnessed Aileen being abused multiple times by various family members), a man also testified he witnessed her being molested by a group of boys and her father was a convicted child molester. Neighbors of hers have testified that she was made homeless at 13 and had to sleep in the snow and she had scars on her hands from frostbite. Its also a fact that her mother abandoned her so its is far from just her word.
"Was she attacked? Of course she's going to say that"
The first man she killed had a history of raping prostitutes so its some coincidence if she is lying about that. As for the others I don't think they necessarily attacked her but I believe that she was so paranoid that she believed that they were a threat to her and thats why she killed them.
"But how many rape or molestation victims willingly decide to become prostitutes?"
As other posters have already pointed out many prostitutes are sexual abuse victims eg. Nancy Spungen was molested by a teacher during childhood and she became a prostitute, Mata Hari was raped by her husband but went on to work as a courtesan, and if you include porn stars as prostitutes then various porn stars including Jenna Jameson were raped. I have also known ex prostitutes who were victims of child sexual abuse
What makes you think she "willingly" became a prostitute? She was a 13 year old girl with little education when she was made homeless with no money what else was she supposed to do? She didn't choose that life it was forced on her.
Having seen footage of Aileen Wuornos I believe she was mentally ill. Some might say she was faking it but she wanted to be executed by that point (she had fired her lawyer without hiring another one and was contradicting witnesses to her defense) so why would she fake it? If she wasn't mentally ill I would believe she should get life imprisonment regardless of any sympathy I have for her horrendous life but because of her condition I believe she should have been put in a mental institution.
Its nothing to do with her being a woman if she was a man I'd say the same thing. I recently read about the case of a man called Scott Panetti who is on death row and some believe he is mentally ill. I don't know enough about the case to give an opinion on his mental health but if he is ill I think he should be in a hospital not on death row. I don't see executing a woman as any different from executing a man.
BUT, a boy who is abused a child and goes on a raping killing spree is held to different standards. It says a lot when everyone wants to treat women like gentle, fragile creatures that are almost incapable of taking accountability and responsibility for their own fvck-ups.
shareHere's my 2 cents.
Eileen Wuornos DESERVED to be executed. That is for all the killings AFTER that FIRST man she killed. However, I believe that first man actually did rape her (with a club), torture her and was actually going to kill her. Nothing justifies her killing those other men; however, that ONE time, it was TOTALLY justified.
And I'm not just basing my opinion on the movie. There has been a TV documentary about EW. And at a certain part, these people are actually saying that that man actually had a HISTORY of abuse. So I believe that really happened to her in real life and she really WAS in immediate life-or-death danger.
I love it when people completely miss the whole point of a movie. The point was that she was NOT A MONSTER and she was a victim.
shareQuite right, too, jtilak!
share"The point was that she was ... a victim."
Aileen Wuornos was a victim of rape and other forms of abuse.
These men, were victims of murder:
Richard Mallory
David Spears
Charles Carskaddon
Peter Siems
Troy Burress
Dick Humphreys
Walter Jeno
As much as I appreciate that she had a difficult life, that can in no way excuse her execution of seven people.
I can not imagine how difficult it must be for the family of her victims reading/watching all the media being created about this woman attempting to justify her actions and portray her as the victim. My sympathies lie with them, not with her.
Is there a reason we have to take sides here? Can't we just feel saddened and an all-around weltschmerz that we live in a world where: 1. Anyone could be used so badly by the world that they turn to a life like Aileen's because they can't see any other choices? 2. Sex is seen as such a dirty and illicit thing by some that they feel anyone engaged in it deserves whatever s/he gets? 3. People feel so lonely or disconnected or sexually frustrated that they actually hire someone for sexual company? 4. Prostitution (essentially using one's body and physical talents to earn money) is legislated as illegal while professional athletes are lauded as heroes and role models?
Maybe it's just me, but I think there's plenty to feel bad about and think about all over this movie. And just for the record, yes, it DID affect me, and yes I DID look up all the old news I could find to try to get a balanced view.
I would like to see how all you Haters lives would have evolved, had you been subjected to the same abuse and abandonement that Aileen had to face throughout her life.
I wonder if you have had to live through similar experiences??
If you have, and managed to not be a complete screwed up mess then congratulations. Personally speaking, Im not sure i would be able to say the same thing.*
If you were lucky and DIDNT have to live through this, but instead, had a pretty good childhood/life then who do yous think they are to judge anybody??
Shame on you!
(quick update - *Im not saying I would go on to become a murderer or that I condone killing or anything, but its just that experiences effect people in different ways and what 1 person is strong enough to deal with, 5 people may find it all just too much and thats when their mental state deteriorates.)
What I have or have not gone through is irrelevant to this discussion. What is relevant is the fact that she executed seven people. Not one. Seven. If her side of the story in regards to the first victim is true, then maybe that could be considered justifiable homicide. But to then go out and look for more victims. That is murder. Nothing can justify her actions in that regard.
As for who am I to judge anybody? I am someone who appreciates the fact that something like this has never happened to anyone I love, and hope that the authorities that we have put in place to protect us from such people are able to deter them from carrying out such attrocities, and if they fail in that, then adequately punish those who do.
The question for you Tabitha is this: if Aileen had shot your father through the head, would you really care what she had been through in her life?
what you have gone through is relevant. its called empathy you dumb *beep*.
the question for you, geosta, is this: if you had gone through what Aileen had gone through, would you be the same simple minded, judgmental person you are today?
As a feminist, I'm also glad she got the death penalty. It shows that finally women are being treated like men and, along with getting the same privledges they have, have the same punishments, too.
~::~::~
The midget I'm dating could be my daughter! ~Denny Crane
as a person who is not racist, i'm also glad white people get raped just like black people. it shows that whites are being treated like blacks.
see how stupid your logic is?
I know this is an old comment, but I had to reply just to say that that was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted on imdb, and that I am truly embarrassed for you. Jesus Christ.
I don't like the way blood money spends.
Why don't you answer the other question?
If one of those men Aileen murdered in cold blood was YOUR father, brother, husband or son, how much compassion would you be able to feel for her?
Geosta - Of course its relevent!
If someone has been through a similar childhood they are able to relate to a person. Obviously not EVERYONE that grows up with experiences like Aileen will go on to follow in her footsteps but they will probably be able to say "yeah, that happened to me & know how I felt when it did!"
Yes im aware she executed 7 people. In no way am I condoning that....what i AM saying is until YOU have been in the situations shes been in (and i genuinely hope you never are) you cannot possibly tell how you would react.
Just like I cant tell how I would react.
The authorities ARE able to do their job without using the death penatly, as they do in a lot of other countries around the world. I believe locking someone up 27/7 for life, away from wotever family & loved ones they may have, IS a worthy punishment.
As for your last question, Ill say it again for you just incase you didnt get it already! As much as i would like to say "id forgive her...etc etc" I dont know how i would react, feel, or think if Aileen had shot my dad through the head. Anyone that says they do know is a liar....or delusional!
I always thought Feminism was about equality, not praising or making excuses for all women.
There is this bizarre assumption that any woman must be, deep down, a decent person, no matter who or why or how she kills.
There is little empathy granted to male serial killers (nor should there be) simply because they may have had an abusive childhood. Women, it seems, kill for the same reason they shop or cheat or cook: it's really out of a desire for love.
Especially when her victims are male.
The irony here is that real feminist would be praising the death penalty here, because it is a woman being treated as a man would have been. But instead, they want to make excuses and say that she was justified in what she did.
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I guess thats the heatache of the film really, surely ever viewer can almost understand why Aileen became the monster she did. However I've been looking through this post and cant seem to find one about the first man she killed and how that SON OF A BITCH got eveything he deserved. Nobody in their right mind can say that first attack on Aileen was minor (as previous people have) or say that she was not acting in self deffence. When your on the game sometimes thats the way it goes and you know you have do what needs to be done to escape (I've been there so I know what I'm talking about). I think with Aileen after that first killing is where it all went wrong because in a way it felt good and she felt empowered. I guess after that everything fell into place and all those years of abusive, uncomfortable, violent, frightfull, degrading and perverted sexual acts of survival (no-body wants to be a whore, you just end up there) just got too much. Its not excuses and there are no justifications for the other men Aileen killed but (because theres always a but)I just dont think she was bad, I just dont. I loved the character and what it represents. I loved the line "I'M GOOD WITH THE LORD" it seemed to sum up her feelings as if she was owed forgiveness from him for the life he had given her.
shareAnd that's why this movie is no horrible and actually outright dangerous. It perpetuates the myth that women are always "victims" no matter what they do.
shareThe only reason I dislike the death penalty is because our glorious legal system has sent innocent people to die plenty of times. Imagine being on death row, knowing your going to be executed by the state for something you didn't do. Some cases have proven the victims innocent 10 years after being fried, gassed, or pricked. Read the book Monster. It's about a 17 year old boy put on trial for a crime he didn't commit. He's terrified of loosing his life to prison. While he isn't going ot die, prison is almost the same, and it shows how ridiculous our legal system can be. The movie the Green Mile is a good showing of when innocent people are killed, although the gift of god story isn't really relavent.
The Colt M1911A1 .45 ACP is the greatest handgun ever made.
Really? PLENTY of times?
Name five. Go ahead. I'm not saying that they didn't, but if you make a claim, back it up.
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You're a horrible person. If anything, I'm sure plenty of people will be glad you are dead when you are as well.
shareBut after seeing the life they live and their lack of choices, its made it hard for me to truly hate her.I hate playing this card, but if it had been a man instead of a woman, would you say the same thing?
SHE WAS A GOOD PERSON.
Sure she killed a guy or two.
But really...who among us hasn't?
Ed Gein.
He only got a woman or two.
;)
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I think in the beginning, Ed Gein might have been a damn good kid. Some kind of traumatic events lead him to murdering and eating people, including his own family. That poor man. The kind of trauma he had to live through to become such a monster.
Truthfully, Ed Gein didn't deserve to die. He should've been treated for how sick he was.
Don't you think, folks?
I've only seen this movie once. I didn't really love it. It wasn't a bad film, it was just a little ugly to watch. I can't really say I "enjoyed" watching it.
I did happen to catch about 30-40 minutes of it last night for the first time since my first viewing.
I'm with you, I'm glad she's dead. She was a piece of garbage. A monster if you will. However, I don't really love the portrayal of this character. I felt they tried to make her too sympathetic.
Yes, I know this woman had a terrible life. People who have terrible lives usually gain my sympathy, but not when they murder innocent bystanders. I didn't even really care that she killed the guy who raped her. In fact, I felt "good, he's a scumbag." But once Aileen tried to justify killing everyone else as of all johns were like him, she lost my sympathy. Completely.
I completely agree Theron's transformation is a great one though. It's just not an enjoyable movie. I feel the same way about American History X. Excellent film, but I never want to see it again.