It's gross! It makes me scared to grow old and now I see it as such a horrible thing. I have these panic attacks where I'll get married then later on my husband won't be the same person and he'll cheat on me and be after young girl when I become old.
Please tell me not every guy is like this?
And why are young women after old men?! Are you nuts? Not only is it disgusting, but they only like you for your AGE not YOU. That's awful.
From a strictly biological standpoint; men are attracted to younger women because they are more able to successfully bear children, which is really man's inherent desire. To spread his seed to as many women of child-bearing capability as possible. Young women pursue older and more established men for exactly that. When we were all running around as hairy apes not so long ago, females sought out the more dominant, successful male in order to secure a better and more privileged life for her and her children and thus gain a larger chance for their survival. It’s not disgusting its evolution. It is how we have been able to sustain as a species for so long despite so many obstacles. As for your future husband, the inclination to cheat is hardwired into his brain. As is yours but for different reasons. Monogamy is not a natural state for most any species. In fact the opposite is the norm. All we can do is hope to offer enough reasons and benefits (such as longer life) for our partners to remain faithful. Don’t blame a gender. It’s simply nature. And it’s the reason our species as well as many others have survived.
Viva La Evolucion!!!
That's what I thought also.
So it's got nothing to do with looks or wrinkles?
So it's got nothing to do with looks or wrinkles?
Wow. I can't help thinking how ridiculous you are. What if you got married and you and your wife both grew old-would you leave her when her boobs started sagging and she got wrinkles, and go after someone young enough to be your daughter?
I'm a 24 year old woman and I can honestly say that I wouldn't personally WANT to date an old man. In fact, there is only one old man in this world I would date, and that's Jack Nicholson.
Good luck with finding someone half your age when you get old. You might get laughed at.
'Wendy, I'm not gonna hurt ya. I'm just gonna bash your brains in!'
-Jack Torrance, The Shining
Wow. I can't help thinking how ridiculous you are.
What if you got married and you and your wife both grew old-would you leave her when her boobs started sagging and she got wrinkles, and go after someone young enough to be your daughter?
Good luck with finding someone half your age when you get old. You might get laughed at.
I know he sounds like an ass hole!
There's nothing complicated about it, we like younger women cos they're pretty.
Sigh...I think you should read through both my posts again and you'll realise what you misunderstood.
shareNo I wouldn't, I intend to be a one woman man. But she'd turn me on a lot less with sand bags as breasts.
however men and women do not age the sameway
shareyour honesty and writing style are quite refreshing , ty
sharehey mr immortal. i understood what you were saying, the poster asked a question of what an older man would see in a younger woman, you are a man (i think so at least, sorry :D ) and your giving your answer as to why YOU would find a younger woman attracted, and i agree with it, its more to do with the looks and the "young" personality for what an older man would see in a younger woman, kind of like a breath of fresh air, thats my guess at least (im a girl by the way :D ).
shareThe same thing can be said about women. We don't like wrinkles either and we like that "young personality" also! It's like a breath of fresh air for us also.
shareAgain I think it is important to remember why we do or do not find rinkles, sagging breasts, liver spots, baldness etc... attractive. Those are all signs of someone past their prime, child-bearing/virility wise. While saying that the reason men find younger women more attractive because they look younger is technically true, the reason you find youth, both in a physical and mental aspect, attractive is that you are born with those ideas. I dont think the one fellow was wrong just a bit overly simplistic. So rather than trying to fight and argue over something with which we have no real control over, why not sit back, relax and enjoy the ride. Because this is your life, and its ending one minute at a time.
shareSo are you going to be completely okay if your wife doesn't find you attractive anymore?
shareWell as I mentioned and as I am sure you already know, attraction is not just physical; it is partially based on personality etc...I would hope to be able to maintain a certain level of physical attractiveness in my later years. But if she would leave me for a younger more attractive man I would feel a bit depressed but I would be comforted knowing that it wasn’t me so much as it was her and everyone else's innate inclination towards youth and beauty. Also as I mentioned women aren’t drawn to men for physical reasons as much as men are to women. A males level of attraction from the perspective of a female is one based a bit more upon the males level of success and standing. If a woman leaves her mate for another man, it’s generally because the other fellow has something more to offer her in terms of security and comfort. One example would be the young girl and the much older, richer man. So for women much more so than men, physical shortcomings are a bit less important then the perceived feeling of safety and security that might be found in another, more well-to-do male. Its simply cold, hard, non-negotiable biology. To me it can be comforting knowing that something such as love, attraction, and sometimes ultimately rejection are largely nothing more than a bio-chemical reaction towards another. Not very romantic, but if the attraction phase of human love lacks real mystery, thus perhaps cheapening it in some peoples eyes, look no further than the greatest mystery perhaps of all…Why the hell do people remain together for years on end? That is the question with a far more complex and intriguing answer. And if I or you knew the answer to that one, we would be writing books and going on the lecture circuit rather than typing here on one of a bazillion message boards across the internet. Such Is Life.
shareAlso as I mentioned women aren’t drawn to men for physical reasons as much as men are to women.
I said aren't drawn to as much. That doesn’t mean that the physical part of attraction for women is non-existent, I am asserting that it plays slightly less a role in attraction for women that it does for men. After all never underestimate the human animal's sense of vanity. Who wants to be seen with a bag of wrinkles regardless of gender? I am also speaking in terms of most all things being equal, i.e. a slightly older but still moderately attractive, and well established man, versus the younger, more youthful, yet not nearly as established male. If the youth has a slight to medium edge in terms of physical beauty but the older man has a much larger edge in terms of success and status, females are again, biologically more drawn to the male best able to provide security and comfort to the female. But again, there are variables and exceptions to every rule. There is no accounting for personal taste of course, but I simply must stress the biology aspect. And how we in many ways are slaves to it.
shareYou are saying...
I am asserting that it plays slightly less a role in attraction for women that it does for men.
Men like "prettier" women for a very essential biological reason. A younger-ish looking woman presents, in Cro-Magnon mans mind, a better representative of someone who can best bear his seed. Younger women are simply more able to have a man’s children. That is the basis of physical attraction from a man’s point of view. All of your and my sexual drive is based on finding someone to procreate with. When you understand that, you understand why a youthful appearance is very important to men. We are programmed to create as many children as possible so that our genes are passed onto the next generation. This in turn makes us immortal in some way. My great great great great grandfather is in a sense very much alive in that his genes, his DNA are a part of mine. Simply put... a younger women has a more fertile and viable womb to raise my child and grant me a measure of immortality.
sharei have a question for you, why do certain people not want to have babies? are they just not part of the norm?
and i sincerely doubt that its in a player's agenda to get as many girls pregnant as possible. in fact, i think he just wants to get laid. and uses a condom.
Well, in short, we are ultimately the masters of our mind. We can choose to override or give into our impulses as we wish. The people who do not want to have children are normal, after all what is normal? The compulsion towards having children is a biological and evolutionary implulse most every one feels. Look at gay couples. They are very much attracted towards the same sex, yet still harbor a desire to have children and thus adopt. And your question regarding so called players, well the reptilian portion of his brain desires children, but the more developed part of his brain says in no uncertain terms, 'Dont be a fool, wrap your tool'. But again, there are always exceptions to every rule, but try not to think of it in terms of rules. They are more like inclinations and survival instincts rather than strict rules per se. We are very much a slave to and a master of our impulses, the only thing we must try and do is control and manage them for our own good as well as the good for the species in general.
share
This is going to sound terribly cynical but I think that sometimes it just boils down to the fact that men want 'trophy' wives/girlfriends. As a young man, that means the best looking woman around. As an old man, that simply means a younger attractive woman. Older men know that having a young woman on their arm implies they are virile or powerful or rich. In my opinion, it has less to do with evolution than it does with a p*ssing contest.
The attraction for some young women to an older man is that its a shortcut to getting all the things they want out of life without working for them. I know its going to be a newsflash to some guys, but as women, we dont often find our male partners as sexually exciting as they think they are. Some women make a deal with themselves - i.e. if I am going to be with a man I dont find attractive, it might as well be a rich one who has enough life experience to realise that treating a woman well makes her want to stay with you.
Sex is a woman's most powerful tool and some use it to get what they want. It has NOTHING to do with evolution or a desire to procreate.
NOW, if you add love to the mix, all bets are off. Sometimes, older people and younger people (like my parents) fall in love with each other - its as simple as that.
You gotta promise not to stop when I say when...
Well not to be trite but you proved my point. Sex is indeed a tool that women have LEARNED to exploit for their benefit, which is what I have been saying all along. Women LEARNED to use sex as a tool to create a better situation for themselves and their offspring by mating with the better established men in the tribe. The learning portion is what evolution is all about. Women LEARNED through the ages that by using sex they can indeed better their surroundings. On the topic of love, here is some real cynicism for you. Love, at least in the way we think of it, really is nothing more than a series of chemical reactions which trigger a release of pleasure inducing chemicals. Ironically, as you may or may not know, the same chemicals released when eating chocolate.
So to sum it all up once again, evolution is the explanation why men, in general, are attracted towards younger women. Our primitive brain sees a lovely young girl and deep down in the reptilian part of our brains think's "Wow, she looks like she would be a great carrier of my seed for my future children, thus making me in a way immortal." Whereas women, in general, select a male mate based on as you said, not solely on looks, and think's "Wow, this guy looks like he would help me and my future children not just survive but thrive."
While your observations on attraction were in some way correct, you are wrong as to why. All of it has EVERYTHING to do with EVOLUTION. The survival of ourselves, our species, and whatever needs to be done in order to ensure it, all comes down to evolution. Which is the adaptation of practices and behaviour that increase the probability of our survival.
Viva La Evolucion!
Couple of points:
Not all women use sex in that way. Is Evolution selective?
Wouldnt we have evolved to love each other? Just because its down to a chemical reaction doesnt make it any less of a driving force.
None of your comments would explain why there is an increase in younger men wanting older women.
Why, if men say - "Wow, she looks like she would be a great carrier of my seed for my future children, thus making me in a way immortal." - do so many men get jealous after the child is born? Why do many, many men run a mile when the woman they have been having sex with falls pregnant?
Our brains and personalities (which is what we are talking about when we talk about things that attract us) are shaped by our enviroments - isnt that why in some cultures all babies are cherished and in other cultures a female child is considered a burden and often killed. There is a crisis in certain countries now as future populations are threatened by a lack of maturing female children. What happened to Evolution and the survival of the species there?
In some countries, anal sex (and therefore AIDS) is on the increase because men want sex without children.
If it is purely Evolution that makes chose the behaviours we exhibit towards the opposite sex and our offspring, then whole continents wouldnt be able to ignore it?
finally, if men are driven to women who seem the best candidates to raise their children, why are natural, curvy, sexually mature women being shunned in favour of young women who look like boys with breast implants? You and I both know that curvy hips are there to show child bearing capability - surely bigger, stronger women would be more popular? Or is that part of the evolutionary process selective too? Which means its down to preference NOT evolution.
You gotta promise not to stop when I say when...
Well first I don’t believe I said that ALL women use sex as a tool. In regards to love, I also never said it is any less a driving force due to it being just a chemical reaction. If anything I implied that it is a huge driving force, we all know how powerful those chemicals can be and we all know how crazy loves makes us.
Also again, you are really proving my point of evolution. Our desires in terms of what we find attractive is shaped by our environment. They are a modified or altered opinion based upon adaptation to the environment. This is the very essence of evolution.
As to the countries which value male children over female, countries like China, well they value the male because there are an abundance of females, not to mention of course antiquated views towards “weaker sex”. Which countries are faced with a female shortage by the way? The Y chromosome you must remember is recessive so there will always be slightly more females than males no matter what.
Why do men run when they have a child? Simple, they don’t want to help rear the child. They want to have their cake and eat it too. There is his child; a continuation of his DNA, his job is done. The seed has been planted; leave someone else to till the field. Move onto another woman and lay down more seed. That is evolution. By having lots of children back so long ago, we covered the spread so to speak. More children mean more of a chance that our DNA will survive by process of sheer numbers.
In regards to not wanting children, it comes down to not wanting to have to raise children I think. We have an inherent desire to procreate but again, we are largely the masters of our baser instincts and will control them as such.
But again as I mentioned a little earlier, try not to think of Evolution in terms of a concrete set of rules. They are more like guidelines and patterns we follow. There is no cosmic rule to govern our actions. Our actions are governed by our desire to survive and that is it. Attraction towards skinnier women is a cultural attraction prevalent in western society; where as in nations like Africa, the attraction is towards wider hipped, more voluptuous looking women Why the difference? Well that’s no easy answer but preference stems from evolution. Remember evolution can be and is a very loose term used to describe why patterns of thought and behaviour emerged. Evolutionary theory is about finding a rational and scientific theory, based upon study and evidence, as to why we do or think what we do. But one thing is for certain. Men find certain women attractive for some reason and vice versa; and that reason didn’t come from an invisible person or fall from of the stars.
Viva La Evolucion!
Couldnt you answer the point about why there are more young men dating older women or did you just miss it?
I am stunned that you havent seen or heard the issues regarding the treatment of females in India (amongst others). It is a FACT that female children are being terminated in the womb or left to die after they are born. It is also a fact that this practice is so common, that there will be a shortage of women in a generations time.
I am not going to keep going back and forth with this lol. Let me just say, as far as I am concerned, older men date younger women as a type as they think it proves their virility or power etc - it has everything to do with their own self image and nothing to do with evolution. Some of them are just lecherous old guys...and you know that too, or you wouldnt be trying so hard to find some noble reason to explain their behaviour lol. Old men get hot looking at young pretty girls (if its just a young, fertile woman they want, why arent more of them with ugly ones??) isnt it that simple? lol.
In the 1950's men liked voluptuous women because society and the media told you that was what you should want. Now, pre-pubescent looking women who have such a low body fat ratio that they dont even menstruate properly are considered desirable. The media is such a powerful influence in our lives that we have girls starving themselves to death trying to achieve this mythical size zero - but you dont think they are influencing your choices regarding what is attractive or not? lol
Thanks for the debate but I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
You gotta promise not to stop when I say when...
First I would certainly agree that media is to a great extent responsible for what we find attractive. But as you pointed out, there are of course always trends as to what is attractive and they fluctuate throughout the ages. I also agree with you that older men date younger women because it is a symbol of their virility. But what you must remember is that evolution is not just the reason behind action it is also an explanation of those thoughts and actions. Beauty, in the eyes of man, is a sign of greater fertility. A woman who does not meet men’s standards of beauty is therefore seen as unattractive both as a mate and as a potential breeding partner, which is why there aren’t more men with ugly girls as you put it. Physical deformity, whether it is crooked teeth, or just an ugly face, has long been the way of quickly determining a woman’s beauty as well as potential in terms of birthing. One thing that cuts across all society is the beauty of a woman’s face. Body size may differ but what men consider a beautiful face does not. Men are attracted towards a combination of facial features that represent both child and adult like qualities on a woman. A smaller chin, larger eyes, more prominent cheek bones, etc…These are things that all men identify as attractive regardless of society, culture, media influence etc… and have been forever.
The same can be said of women too. Not many women are attracted towards homely or rotten looking men. I am not trying to instigate any conflict, but men too suffer from vanity and want to be attractive towards the opposite sex. Male anorexia and other eating disorders are rising at alarming rates as well, they may even be close to eclipsing females if not for that fact that amongst men it is little talked about let alone reported. I am not trying to make excuses for men or women. I simply started off this topic long ago by saying that there is a viable and logical explanation for why men find younger women, on the whole, to be more attractive. That explanation is evolutionary adaptation to best ensure the survival of the species. And as I have mentioned several times, evolution’s patterns are not set in stone. Reasons for attraction do indeed fluctuate, and we are responsible for them.
In regards to female infanticide, yes I had heard of the appalling situation in India. Of course much like in China, girls will simply be exposed and left to die. The reason for these practices is far too numerous and complex to undertake here, but I was aware of them none the less and am as perplexed as anyone else. It really makes it all the madder because it does threaten the survival of the people. But then again man, or woman, has never been the most rational animal in the forest. We must keep in mind than humankind is the only species that would willingly self terminate. So our limit for depravity and madness sadly knows no bounds.
Thank you for the debate. But I don’t think we disagree, I am simply saying there is some explanation for why we think or do what we do and that is evolution. And that is the goal and why I love to debate on such things. The more discussion we have the more answers to questions we might arrive at.
Have you ever seen the series The Human Face with John Cleese? He talks about the Beauty Ratio and evolution much the same way you have discussed here. Really interesting show.
One nice thing about us humans - we do have some choices over our actions. We can opt to rise above our evolution so to speak. Hard at times, but it CAN happen.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0280262/
Just my two cents.
I am hip to your jive - 'cause I'm the GCL
Younger men are "pretty" too, ya now. I just hate old geezers with their potbellies and bald heads. Not to mention that once they hit a certain age, you gotta feed them Viagra. ,)
The philosophers have only interpreted the world; the point is to change it
Old balls don't turn us ladies on either. Just sayin'.
Oh please Chrisschock, are you still trying to preach this unevolved dogma? Step into the 21st century please. Men who use the excuse of "hard-wiring" in their brains for multiple sexual partners are just unevolved cavemen who don't fit into the modern society we've all worked so hard to achieve. Spread your seed to as many partners as possible?...with 6 billion plus humans occupying the planet our species is hardly in danger of extinction so the drive to multiply in droves is not a valid justification for bad behavior from a man. Fact is ladies, if you meet a man who spouts this nonsense, you will never change him. No woman will. Ignore him and move on to better possibilities. There are plenty of reasonable, rational men out there who are looking for the type of connection you all crave. They do exist...once you filter out the losers.
shareChrisschock is the most reasoned voice on this thread by some distance and hardly dogmatic. Five million generations of evolution can't entirely be swept aside by a college education and a reductio ad absurdum argument.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
Well my man actually prefers older women. He is younger than me and I am the smallest age gap he has been with at 5 years older
shareMy dear that is cause know matter how you slice it, older women are much better than younger women in bed when it comes to technique & younger men are much better than older men when it comes to stamina.
It's a wonderful combination.
You go girl!
Just my two cents.
I am hip to your jive - 'cause I'm the GCL
But you know what's funny... younger men LOVE older women. It's usually twenty year old boys that fall for 40 year old ladies... but once they're about forty something clicks and all they want is a young girl.
shareYep!
But younger women are more enthusiastic. So there is a trade off.
I just could not get with an old guy at any age - Not someone that could be my dad - no matter WHAT MY age.
Just my two cents.
I wonder what the average age of the posters is for this thread. I get some of the points you make, even agree with some but boy have you generalized and missed the mark on others. Just some quick hits:
1) I'm 42, my husband is 42 in a week. We've been married 19 years and have 3 kids (two of them teenagers).
2) I look pretty damned good. Tall, strong, my real, full, pretty damn perky breasts, great legs, a little jiggly around the lower stomach and no wrinkles (sidenote: I happen to belong to a race of folks who age extremely well. I know how that sounds but it's true), my husband is lean and non-wrinkled and when we see each other after a day apart, we melt.
3) He has no stamina problems.Anything less than 45 minutes is a waste of time. No need for medication and as far as my energy level and level of interest? HA! It went crazy at about 37 and the sex has NEVER been better. Waaaay better than when we were both younger. He feels me up on a regular basis. LOL. My kids would be seriously damaged if they knew the half of it.You youngins are so off on this one. If I were suddenly available, a man under the age of 35 could do nothing for me in bed. LOL.
4) We're wealthy now. When I met him he was living out of 3 cardboard boxes at a friend's house.
5) We are in love with each other. It goes a long way in and out of the bedroom. There's depth in our relationship. So, I've got some grey hair and he likes it because he likes me.He's got a little grey and I don't give a rip. More often now, after a workout, we take some serious doses of ibuprofen but we do it together and laugh about it. I'm still working on finding grey pubes funny, but that's a tough one.
6) We can both appreciate youth and beauty but realize it isn't enough. I see good looking younger men all of the time but they aren't MY man.He sees good looking younger women but they aren't ME.
7) He's smart. He thinks I'm smarter. I make him laugh like a lunatic. He is my hero and I whisper that in his ear all of the time when we're roaring down the road on the back of our bike. He loves my parents and is good to them.He loves our children and I love him for being good to them and providing for us. My jiggly belly is a result of giving him three beautiful, healthy babies and I'm a good mother and he respects and loves that. And by the by, the sex never stopped through the pregnancy. He thought I was one hot property. All of the history is such a turn on.
OK. He's out of town right now. All of this talk has gotten me hot and bothered. Time for me to Skype him and fire up the webcam. Believe it or not, a lot of us old folks are really into each other, imperfections and all. Gotta go... :) :) :) :) :)
I have never been able to quite grasp the average age on some of these boards.
You and I are contemporaries. I was married to the lust of my life for 20 years. He had a mid life crisis and well, I decided not to go there with him. touchofsun999 was right about the way guys flip the script over time. I get approached by younger guys quite often.
I SO AGREE WITH YOU. Experience AND energy cannot be beat. Conversely, looking at this from all points of view I can see the appeal for May/December relationships. NOT that it’s for me, but I understand. There are many dynamics at play - power, physical attraction, validation – the list could go on.
In this movie, the age gaps were just a little too large (for me). I could not see the folks together in real life - at least not in serious relationships. However, they did serve a purpose - they were transitional - sort of a "Get your grove back" kind of thing. In the end, the couples did find more meaning in being with someone with whom they shared common interests.
If I had to choose an age gap of say ten years, I think that I would go younger. Past that would be too young for me. Guys my own age have enough of a hard time keeping up with me. Any older would be WAY too old.
lasibilladelfica I bet if you ever found yourself single again you’d look at the slightly younger crowd - not your kids’ ages – but younger. You sound like you have way too much energy for a senior citizen – unless of course he can keep up with a vixen with the web cam!
OH, There is a funny IKEA commercial that came to mind when I read your post http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eixBX98_1SQ
You Go Girl!
Don't hurt'em too much.
Just my two cents.
geriatriccatlady,
You don't sound geriatric to me! Oh, I'd entertain the younger crowd if I found myself single again, you're right about that. As you said, I just wouldn't go too young. Experience is sexy. A younger guy would have to be physically attractive to me but intellectually stimulating and emotionally mature.Hey, younger guys, you really have no idea what you're missing.
There's no doubt a lot of men go through SOMETHING and dump their wives and go way younger. Yeah, yeah, people, I know some of it is true love, blah, blah, blah, I get that. BUT some older guys with super young chicks just look so cliche. Living in Taipei you can see more than a few Western men with young (about a 20-25 yr. age difference) Taiwanese women. It LOOKS a tad ridiculous.Some may be the real thing, some...who knows?
I'll try not to hurt 'em but I can't make any promises.
Off to watch the IKEA commercial.
Loved the IKEA commercial! HAHA! One day we are going to be SO busted!
shareI would never want my future husband to ever leave me for another girl [whether she is younger, the same age, or older]. I just get scared by reading these replies!
share[deleted]
What the hell are you talking about?
share[deleted]
At first I felt quite reluctant to revisit such an old conversation; but good Scotch causes ones memory to jog and I stumbled back upon this thread. I simply wanted to weigh in and respond the last posters response calling people ‘idiots’. That really is just foolish. I think the poster read the other messages and somehow derived something completely out of tune and thought that the others were refuting or were simply ignorant of what I had been posting. I don’t think that’s the case and you, Generic1980 are simply wrong in implying as such.
Name calling and other Ad Hominem remarks do not win arguments; instead they only reveal the weakness of one’s own. But perhaps it was, and I think so, a simple misunderstanding. If that’s the case then let the debate and discussion rage on!
Viva La Evolucion!
[deleted]
[deleted]
All right I had several problems with your posts so here goes.
1. Citing a Pearl Jam song or any song for that matter does not in any way constitute a logical or scientific rebuttal of anything.
2. A young female has had less sexual partners than older women and is therefore less of a threat to an insecure older man…So a younger, more physically attractive female is less likely to pose a threat to a man’s relationship with her? So you are saying that an older woman is more likely and more able to go out and date another man? That ship doesn’t sail my friend.
3. Men, at some point, want to recapture their reckless youth. And women don’t seek to recapture their youth as well? Just because someone’s idea of doing so may be buying a convertible and dating younger persons doesn’t mean that others don’t seek to recapture their youth as well, albeit through different means?
4. We aren't animals anymore. When exactly did we cease to be? We are still very much just a more relatively hairless version of our primate cousins, with but a few chromosomes separating us from our crap flinging forebears. A slight enlargement of our prefrontal lobe and a better use of our thumbs is really all that is biologically different from us.
The entire point of all my posts from the very beginning is not about offering excuses, instead only possible and dare I say probable reasons for our behavior. As far as our species somehow “Needing” men to settle down and raise families, well that really is contrary to evolutionary theory. I agree that in the past, if only for sheer numbers of our young dying at such a young age was it necessary to increase the chances of overall survival by increasing the amount of overall chances.
Biology and Science in general aren’t about right or wrong; or what is acceptable or not acceptable. Those are indeed decisions that are left up to individual societies, but then again who really is to decide what is good or bad or right or wrong? Especially when it comes to breeding habits and reproductive issues, no one person or group is really more “Right” or “Wrong” than the other. Opinions about social or moral issues may vary but science and logic are not concerned with such things. Only fact and reason.
The truth is we can reason and therefore we can help it, there is no excuse.
I offer no excuses. Only explanations. Whether or not they are “Right” or “Wrong” is purely your opinion. You are of course entitled to it. But remember, what is ‘right’ for some is not ‘right’ for another. And more often that not, neither person is ‘wrong’.
Viva La Evolucion!
[deleted]
[deleted]
First please let me say I rather enjoy this little discussion of ours and thanks for playing along. I was never upset with what you said I just see things a little differently. I am sure you wouldn’t mistake disagreement for outright anger.
Secondly, I understand that it is natural to think that a person defending or taking a point of view on any issue is in some way biased because he endorses or engages in those activities. But perhaps I am simply playing Devil’s Advocate? Perhaps I do not live the type of lifestyle that I represent. And I mean represent because again, I am not here to say that any one style of mating habit(s) is right or wrong.
Your point in regards to the younger female being less of a threat is debatable as well. A younger, better looking female may be harder to retain because she is aware of how attractive she is and that she could have most any man she desires. I agree with the point you made, I am simply saying that there is a flip side to that coin as well.
Yes of course I realize that we have more finely tuned and far more intricate sets of emotions than other animals. I was really referring to the physical differences though, and in that way we are but a shade away from our simian brothers. I for one never want to forget, deny, or downplay our close brotherhood with them if only for the fact that it forces us to think and consider our actions towards other animals and life in general, knowing how closely we are all related in the most basic of ways.
By the way if anything people in general try to deny just how CLOSE we are to primates; as in the evolution versus creationism debate. Of course we can take control of our evolution as a species. However we cannot undue what has already been done. Some things, especially biological features (i.e. the appendix) we cannot reverse or subvert. They are for the moment present, and will be for quite awhile despite how little we may need or want them. So yes we can control some things, modify or eradicate others, its just that it takes a really long time as you already know.
And suffering is of course scientific, and it is good. It is through pain and sacrifice that we gain knowledge and insight. Without pain, without sacrifice we would have nothing.
Lastly, “…The reason I know my opinion is based in some sort of truth is that it isn't self-serving at all. I would love to "Do the Evolution" and be super promiscuous. But I know that usually entails lies/misrepresentation and eventual hurt feelings and I will deny myself this because I know it is wrong to some degree…”
Isn’t that self serving? In that you are making yourself feel better by not engaging in activity which you think is wrong? It is self-serving to engage or not engage in any type of behavior because you believe it to be either right or wrong. You feel better about yourself for not doing those things so therefore you are serving what you feel to be your best interests and doing what you feel is the right thing. Besides what really is truth?
“Everyone's opinion is equal, it is just that some are more equal than others.” Nice reference, though I hope you don’t believe that. I don’t think you do, its just that sarcasm is so hard to detect through text.
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am man of wealth and taste...
[deleted]
Glad you picked up on the Rolling Stones bit.
But I think you proved my point about being self serving.
“My opinion of it being somewhat wrong could have come after my desire, and so only after running counter to my original desire am I being self-serving”
You see the desire for numerous copulation is inherent and already an unconscious desire within yourself. The evolutionary based desire came first; your condemning of it had to have come after.
And why wouldn’t you feel sympathy for sociopaths? Whose brain chemistry they had no choice in deciding? Sociopaths already have something chemically wrong inside of them, it is true that environment does dictate response to a certain degree, but those who are born with chemical imbalances have little more choice or control over their actions than the retarded. They are in no uncertain terms, screwed from birth. I have utmost sympathy for those unfortunate persons.
I just believe that evolutionary theory has pretty much unlocked many of the reasons why we do or believe what we do or believe. A lot of people who wish to believe in things like free will never take into consideration that their really is no such thing as absolute free will. Instead our thoughts and actions are in many ways dictated and molded as soon as we are born. Its not justification or absolution or rationalization; it’s simply explanation.
“Evolution is cleverer than you are.”
-Leslie Orgel, colleague of Dr. Francis Crick.
[deleted]
Well argued. I think the crux of my argument really comes down to the definition of ‘right’ and ‘wrong’. Why does a man who seeks out younger women for pleasure somehow wrong or evil? If both parties enter freely than how can blame be laid at anyone’s feet?
If it isn’t too personal to ask; why were you so resistant towards engaging multiple partners? I myself am no lothario, nor do I wish to be, but I see nothing wrong or evil about being one.
And yes, I have spent a small amount of time observing and studying sociopaths, though not nearly as much as you seeing as how I am not in the mental health field. I am not saying that they should be patted on the back and their actions forgiven, not whatsoever. However, though they obviously can think for themselves, but their thinking is skewed by means beyond their control i.e. chemical imbalances. Is it their fault that the window through which they view the world is both cracked and distorted? I think not. And while I certainly don’t excuse their actions, I refuse to condemn them for them either. It’s like imprisoning the mentally retarded with the general population or even executing them…that is WRONG as well as irresponsible of any society. But I can certainly understand how having to deal with them on a daily basis would try the patience and understanding of even the most stout of individuals.
Kudos to you for even remaining in the field.
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste…
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
You are the man!
Just my two cents.
I think it's sort of clear of why it is that case among these posts. But to answer your second question of why young women go after older men, it's b/c of that 'gold digging' financial ambition, like Hugh Hefner.
It should be pointed out that there is somewhat of a misconception that women don't judge men by their looks b/c if that ugly isn't rich enough, why would she want to endure his disgusting body?
I know that no one can help their attraction or who they fall in love with but I can't help but find it gross, maybe I could date a guy in his 40's but 50's is a gamble.
shareWow, this is the most depressing thread I've ever read. Maybe that's why there are so many pervs out there. The old guys (and sometimes women) keep dating younger and younger the more older they get. That's probably why so many politicians are found with girls my age. Key word, GIRLS! Cue the vomiting. It's sad and gross. Maybe I should never get married, because the second I get a wrinkle on my forehead, he'll start cheating on me (whether I know it or not). What if I gain two pounds? Well, I'm no good, so he'll throw me out the door (like my dad did my mom)! OR, how about I just don't date altogether. After all, it would be a waste of time, wouldn't it? Just use me and throw me out for some other guy to take, right? One man's trash is another man's treasure, hmmm? What a depressing world. 'LOVE'??? Yeah, more like lust. If you're truly in love with somebody, you wouldn't give a crap about their looks. Plus, young people who are sightly can look beautiful to someone else. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just because the masses define it a certain way, doesn't mean everyone has to follow the 'rules'. There is no 'falling out of love'. Those people are simply falling out of LUST. It doesn't matter if it was 5 months or 50 years. True love is true love, and there's no falling out of it.
"A true leader does what is right, no matter what others think." - Dumbledore
[deleted]
I like women period. Young, old, everything in between. I do not normally think at all about how old they are. I can't stand that our culture is so focused on age in general.
http://www.rateyourmusic.com/~JrnlofEddieDeezenStudies
I have always preferred older women, my ex-wife was more than 10 years older than me.
Having said that, as I get older, I become more confident, dress better, drive a nicer car, do more for my community, etc.
Openings I was never given and perhaps some I was just not aware of, have greatly increased as I have moved past 40 years of age.
Women like confident, well off, well dressed men.
The older a man gets, the more likely he is to be these things, thus the more women that send him the signal that he can move in.
Of the top 10 things women want in a man,(from American Demographics mag.) looks ranked 8th. The top was confidence. Intelligence and greater education than the woman, sense of humor, and status in social settings. These are all things that men tend to have more of later in life.
So yes, a 52 year old can easily attract and keep more women than a 25 year old version of himself, if for no other reason than he's now more confident and makes a better first impression.
If You're Failing to Plan,
You're Planning to Fail.
It's biological...how can you be so stupid that you're not aware of this?
"It's Minnie Pearl's murder weapon."
I agree Olafsdottir.
Basically, it's biological.
I love this thread, and I've only had time to read the first page and the last page.
The pheneomenon was addressed in the thread "Age difference" on the "Murphy's Romance" board. A very different rom/com movie see
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089643/board/flat/172658549?d=223000219#223000219
and a corresponding question might well be asked:
Why do some women feel the need to lie about their age?