MovieChat Forums > Soldier's Girl (2003) Discussion > Disturbing **Spoiler**

Disturbing Spoiler

posted 22 years ago by triviaho
31 replies | jump to latest

I saw this movie the other night, I thought that it was most disturbing. In the same manner that "Boys Don't Cry" was. There was a lot of deceipt here. Fischer was just a horrible person, my question is does anyone think that the he had feelings for Winchell to some degree? It seems that he initiated going to the bar, was caught with one of the performers on more that one occasion. What do you think was is motive? The way that Fisher used Glover was a work of art, using Glover's homophobia in order to get at Winchell for some unspecified reason. What I'm trying to ask is, was Fisher homophobic or did he try to disguise his own uncertainy of his own sexuality by trying to foster his confusion off on Winchell. Am I making sense here?

If, ifs and ands, were pots and pans the world would be a kitchen".

[–] talyn327 22 years ago

i saw this movie too and i was really struck by it. i mean it's almost like romeo and juliet, you have the star crossed lovers motif going and everything. i agree with you about fischer, i think he was EXTREMELY uncertain about his own sexuality and looked to barry to feel the "void" and just couldn't handle the rejection, barry mentioning leaving, and things just came to a head. i think that is one of the flaws of the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy, the guys don't want to be thought of as gay so they(even the gay ones) have to try to act more macho that the next guy. my heart was beating so hard throughout the movie but especially when barry was being attacked, and with that sad sounding song in the background it was very eerie. i applaud all of those involved directly and indirectly with the movie and the real life events, it takes courage to experience something like this and not only move on but try to bring something positive out of the ordeal. besides, as was mentioned in song calpernia was singing "dying is easy, it's living that scares me..."

[–] walkaboutxx 22 years ago

Newspaper articles indicate that Fisher may have had sexual feelings for Winchell as well as doubts about his own sexuality. Some feel that he was attracted to Winchell or Calpernia or both and may have been jealous of their relationship. But that's a lot of "he said she said." Who really knows what his motivations and feelings were? He wore women's panties, frequented the gay bar, and was known to have had sex with at least one of the transsexuals who worked there. Yet he was a macho braggart who spread rumors about Winchell being gay and who ultimately incited an impressionable young recruit to kill him. At the very least, the man had issues.

I thought this was an amazing film and I, too, was struck by the similarity between it and "Boys Don't Cry." Troy Garity gave an award-worthy performance as did Lee Pace and Shawn Hatosy. Garity was strong and masculine, yet sensitive and caring at the same time. The movie also demonstrated the pernicious nature of hate and prejudice.

Although Winchell's death was the result of homophobia, his sexual orientation was not clear-cut. Garity convincingly portrayed the ambivalence Winchell felt about his attraction to Calpernia, and the angst he felt because of it. Winchell was only 22 when he died, so he never got the chance to sort out his feelings--straight,gay, or bisexual. It really shouldn't have mattered. An insightful thought-provoking film.

[–] genetic_body 22 years ago

I completely agree with you. Seems that Fischer had a 'lust' for Winchell........

[–] jescci 21 years ago

One of the problems I had with the film was that it seemed to me - I don't know this for sure and I can't prove it - but it seemed to me that many of the actors in the cast are gay, trying real hard to play macho and strate and not pulling it off very well. That added vagueness and confusion to the identity of the characters most of whom were vague and confused to begin with.

My sense is that the movie was made by homosexuals to do a service for their community. It would have made a better film and a better message if they cast strater.

It's amazing, Molly ... the love inside ... you take it with you ...

[–] mistofflies 21 years ago

none of the actors in the movie are gay. I take it back i am not sure about Pace who played Calpernia, but that doesnt pertain to your statement. The actor playing barry is in fact Jane Fonda's son and is very straight as is Shawn hatosy, who has a wife. The only "gay" person involved in the making was Calpernia herself who lives and at this point is a full woman. The staement makes no sense....

[–] jescci 21 years ago

none of the actors in the movie are gay.

Maybe they are and maybe they aren't. You don't know for sure that they're not. Being married proves nothing.

But I'll back track and restate. Perhaps that is beside the point. Forget the gay comment. They weren't butch enough - how's that?

Don't remember the characters' names, but Barry's roommate demonstrated homoeroticism on a handful of occassions followed by bouts of aggressive homophobia indicating he was a self-hating latent homosexual. The little guy who eventually did the actual murders (oh, come on don't tell me that actor isn't gay) seemed to struggle with the same issues but more intensely, more pathologically.

If the message of the film is that this is part of who we all are deep down and to deny it causes internal conflict that will grow unchecked with time resulting in deadly consequences - then cast more like "who we really are" to make the point relatable. Make the characters believable as military men. Like Mayo and Foley in An Officer And A Gentleman. Maybe it was a budget thing - the budget for that film was a lot higher - the actors' salaries made it worth their while to get in shape.

I'll be home late ... but I'll be home

[–] mistofflies 21 years ago

LOL first off the roomates charater was soppose to act somewhat gay becasue he is. He dated a trans for some time. I know I live in Nashville. and what makes how a person acts gay. Just becasue someone is not so "butch" doesnt mean they stick there penis in guys. And yes the guy who actually killed Barry was acting too butch becasue he wasd in real life. You have a 17 year old thrown in will college age men. He was trying to hard becasue he wanted to fit it HELLO.

[–] jescci 21 years ago

Your points are well taken. But I'm still confused about the film's message. Is it about the danger of intollerance or is it simply the telling of a sad story about a couple of isolated pathological nut jobs?

I'll be home late ... but I'll be home

[–] mistofflies 21 years ago

why are they nut jobs. It is a love story between two peeple, and how they both looked past gender to fall in love with a soul. The point is that two people can fall in love regardless of gender or societys rules on the right way to love. It also shows how the people are not yet ready to be open to this and it is trying to open eyes and create awarness of these hate crimes.
and btw the acting couldn't been to bad as barry and calpernia got golden globe nods for best actor in a made for tv movie...

[–] jescci 21 years ago

The nut jobs I'm talking about are the roommate and the killer. I had no problem with Barry or Calpernia's performances or casting or even their story. It was kind of beautiful albeit in a creepy way - I admit I may have a small problem with women who have penises. But that's beside the point. My main problem was with the way their story was told. It would seem obvious that the filmmakers were trying to show "how the people are not yet ready to be open to this and it is trying to open eyes and create awarness of these hate crimes". But who exactly was guilty of not being "open" in this movie? Seemingly normal members of society? or nut jobs? Again, the message would have been more effective had the killer and the instigators not been so soft/gay/odd/abnormal, had they been more like the rest of us so we mite see just a little of ourselves in them. Otherwise it's a horror story, the villains are monsters, and we lament not the tragedy of extreme social intollerance, but only that the victims were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I'll be home late ... but I'll be home

[–] mistofflies 21 years ago

I do agree with your pojnt, but this is based on a true story so they had to follow facts. The real calpernia was there while they made the movie so she tried to make most of it acurate, though she was never present during the times he was at home so nobody really can say what happened in the room. Fisher was nutty so they had to portray him as so. The actual killer was not so much a nut job as a young valnerable kid who just got grabbed by the wrong guy.Anyone can be brainwashed, specially someone who is so young and wants so hard to fit in. This kid wasn;t nuts just stupid with who he hung out with and let fill his head, but this in no way forgives him for what he did. He did kill a man and very well could have not done so, but I think it was half in half on him.

[–] MonaLisa9 21 years ago

One of the ironies of this film is that the guys who are the real nutty ones are not the ones involved in the unusual relationship. I don't know what Glover's problem was, but I think it was more than that he was young and impressionable. He seemd mildly retarded, and I thought it interesting that he could be enlisted in the armed forces without anyone picking up on that.

"I'm not prejudiced, I hate everyone equally"

[–] stormrider57 20 years ago

What's really scary is that the two "nut jobs" (Fisher and Glover) are not just a couple of isolated weirdos, but they are just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak, of a larger social problem. The whole atmosphere of homophobia is created and perpetuated by the military, and it shows up every day in things like the officer chanting that horrible cadence, and the whole ridiculous don't ask don't tell policy, ad nauseam. That sort of thing is very common in the military, and I've been there and seen it myself. The solution isn't just to throw Fisher and Glover into prison for a few years-- things need to change from the bottom up.

Did that hurt, Nokes?

[–] audiloan 20 years ago

Nitpick: He was an NCO, not an officer.

[–] adrianlloyd 17 years ago

I have a feeling that being "mildly retarded" isn't that uncommon among enlisted men in the armed forces.

[–] bballinqueen15 20 years ago

on the commentary calpernia said that fisher had atteneded the club 7 or more times before taking barry. also, calpernia also said that once when they were at an after hours club he asked her to hook him up with one of her friends or w/e, and they made out. i think he was at least bisexual, and he probably was because some closet gay men who are thought to be all macho try and hide their sexuality by targeting other guys and taunting them,like people do alot in other situations. but i dunno. just my thoughts

[–] stormrider57 20 years ago

That happens very frequently in the military, people targeting others to divert attention from themselves. I saw it myself. The worst ones were the closet cases who did it because they were so terrified of their own possibilities that they were the only ones who couldn't see it.

Did that hurt, Nokes?

[–] justinllawson 20 years ago

I got the vibe that fischer had some sort of feelings for winchell, too. Its complex. I mean military men act out on feelings for the opposite sex once or twice then never again sometimes, or, some actually are homosexual. From all that fischer said, did and how he acted, watching his facial expressions etc, I think he had some sort of feelings for Winchell that he may not have known he had until he met Winchell.

[–] shoeihell 20 years ago

Yeah, I think it was pretty obvious that his insistence on complete male loyalty was just another form for his latent homosexuality and the unreasonable homophobic statements and rage acts he exhibited. I think he was dealing with them long before Winchell-probably since that neighbor boy he sucked off.;-)

Maybe I'm wrong, but I always assumed that was an underlying theme in Winchell's character?

"We seem to have plenty of 'youth', how about a fountain of 'smart'?"

[–] Paul_Kersey_Jr 19 years ago

i thought this movie was excellent, but anyways...

about fischer, yes of course he had some gay issues going on. there are alot of scenes that show this latent gay attraction to winchell.

with glover, in the movie he was portrayed as non macho and ambigouous sexually. there are some of freudian slips, and latent gayness coming through in his dialogue. like at the diner, or when he challenges winchell to a fight. "you homosexual!" "you want to *beep* me!" etc the way he talked etc. lots of quasi homoerotic stuff going on.

i think the other characters/soldiers were believable as being more or less straight.

other things i wondered was, did glover rob the bank? of course i doubted it, but you never know.one telling thing is he said "you have to *shop* it" instead of "you have to case it" i think they put that in to show that he was lying for sure.
i like how he was holding a plastic kids bat when tantruming, it really added to the scene.

another weird scene is when the sarge is interrogating fischer when winchell comes in- it seems like it was set up between sarge and fischer.

[–] beach_df 17 years ago

Calpernia spoke at my school after a viewing of this movie (she left the room for some of the more violent and traumatic parts) and during a question and answer session she said that she thinks that Fischer did have some issues with homophobia (she said that Fischer was a little obsessed with Barry which you can tell very clearly in the film...) and that she felt that Fischer had some issues and merely used Glover as an instrument with which to carry out his aggression. And for the record, Fischer did make out and stuff with some of the drag queens at the club Calpernia worked at.(This is according to witness testimony during the Barry Winchell murder trial).

[–] Latinfilms 19 years ago

Perhaps. Fisher is a coward who couldn't come to terms with his Homosexuality. I think he had feelings for Winschel.

[–] beauty02000 19 years ago

Geee. You Think?

[–] wonderlandwaits 17 years ago

if you remember in calpernias house when barrys upset because of all the 'abuse' hes taking at the base, calpernia says 'is there someone else? is it fischer? ive seen the way he looks at you' which would indicate to me that yes fischer is in love with barry. also when hes been attacked on the bed fisher climbs on the bed, plus in his interview he seems guenually angry that it took an hour for the police car. in the film it would seem yes he is in love with barry xx

[–] wonderlandwaits 17 years ago

yes i realise i wrote police car, i of course ment ambulance

[–] hathor008 17 years ago

yes i realise i wrote police car, i of course ment ambulance

FYI - It is possible to edit an existing post.

---
Jesus wasn't a homophobe.

[–] wonderlandwaits 17 years ago

Thank you i had realised that.

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