MovieChat Forums > Carnivàle (2003) Discussion > Some thoughts after watching both season...

Some thoughts after watching both season 1 and 2.

posted 10 years ago by hakko
13 replies | jump to latest

I just watched the last episode of season 2. I've all episodes in season 1 and 2 in just a week. Wow what a great series. First i thought it was a bit slow, the story and phase was progressing a bit slow. After 3 episodes i wasnt sure i wanted to continue. But after a while you get to know every character well and most of them are very likable and you care for them.

I was very frustrated with Ben Hawkings the whole first season and maybe half of the second season. He was so anti social, never wanted to talk to anyone about anything. Disinterested in everything. He was boring and frustrating. His most common phrase was "go to hell" and "thats none of your business". But he grew bigger and bigger as the season progressed and at the end i started to really like him. Can anyone relate to this?, anyone felt the same?

Brother Justin was my favorite charachter. BRILLIANT acting! He was so convincing in how he delivered his character. And wow, to see him develop into that dark scary person... I was afraid of him, for real.

In the last episode of season 2, when they come up with the idea to difuse/paralyze/weaken/kill Justin with having him in the parise wheel with the help of Bens healing powers. I really think that was a bit naive for them to think it would work on such a strong person as Justin. It was not a very deliberate plan and I think they could have come up with something better...

I didnt like Sofie. She was weak and emotional and not very fit for the harsch life of the carnies. I never really cared for her.

Got a little bit disappointed with Scudder at first. They hyped him up and talked about him so much but when they found him, he was a bit meh. A bit anti-klimax imo. Until the last scenes with him of course, hehe. boom.

I liked most of the characters. And as usual with a high quality HBO-series you get to know them well. Great acting overall. Well made production. I loved almost everyhing about this show. Can't wait for season 3.

...just wanted to write down some thoughts. Sorry for my bad english, it isnt my first language.

Someone wants to share some thoughts?

[–] edisonnosidE 10 years ago

Sorry for my bad english, it isnt my first language.

Don't you worry about that! Your English writing is just fine.

---->
Impossible is illogical.
Lack of evidence is not proof.
+ = !

[–] asktheages 10 years ago

I can't tell if you're serious or not, but there isn't a Season 3, unfortunately. The show was cancelled and so all we will ever have is the (admittedly incredible) first two seasons. The showrunner's plan was for a six-season story, with every two seasons comprising one "book" or story arc, essentially, so we kind of did get a conclusion to the first "book," but it still feels cut off in the middle, like there's so much more to be told.

"Your mental capacity isn't the only problem. You also have the sensibility of a cow on morphine."

[–] hakko 10 years ago

What!? The show was cancelled? Oh my god. Then we will never know what the deal is with Sofie. If justin will come back to life, how Iris react to everything and what happened to Ben, if he is the new management etc.

They can't just leave it at that. :(

[–] asktheages 10 years ago

I know, it's awful isn't it? Like reading the first 200 pages of the greatest book you've ever read, and then being told that the remaining 400 pages are unavailable. Most frustrating is how the show literally ends in flux, with Ben slowly awakening in the back of the moving truck; especially with that and Sofie's story, it's like ending on the visual equivalent of a "TO BE CONT'D" card.

"Your mental capacity isn't the only problem. You also have the sensibility of a cow on morphine."

[–] edisonnosidE 10 years ago

They can, and did. They (HBO) claim the series was too expensive..... But after season 2 they could have separated it from the carny and it would have been cheaper.

Boycott HBO!

---->
Impossible is illogical.
Lack of evidence is not proof.
+ = !

[–] don-lope-de-aguirre 10 years ago

They can, and did. They (HBO) claim the series was too expensive..... But after season 2 they could have separated it from the carny and it would have been cheaper.

It was a very expensive show and I heard the next seasons would have been even more expensive.

Also they asked Knauf if he was willing to cut costs but he declined.

Don't get me wrong I love "Carnivale" it's my favorite show and I want it to continue.

[–] hakko 10 years ago

But how much can it cost? I mean it's HBO, they are probably loaded. Anyone know how succesful this show has been? has it recieved the praise and attention it deserves? Maybe carnivale didnt recieve enough attention to warrant the investment of more money??

[–] hakko 10 years ago

Whops, i didnt realize the show was that old. As I said earlier I just watched it and I got kinda obsessed with the show. Man I wish they would have contuinued with a couple of more seasons.. Anyway this is apprantly an old discuission. I'm still curious of how well it was recieved.

[–] asktheages 10 years ago

It was quite expensive, which would be fine if it was pulling in huge ratings, but it wasn't; actually, the ratings were pretty damn solid, but HBO needed bigger to justify throwing more money at it. There were groups online that would discuss episodes, and there even was a festival/meet-up in 2006, but the show's fanbase wasn't as obviously big as it would be if it was on now. That's the sad thing: if Carnivale had premiered in, say, 2013 instead of 2003, the internet would likely give it the huge fan base and support it needed to stay on the air. HBO couldn't be able to deny it. And I bet even shows like Game of Thrones or True Detective might've been cancelled had they premiered before the widespread blogging/instantaneous internet culture of today. Unfortunately HBO was on a steak of cancelling quality shows in the mid-2000's, as with Deadwood -- which I'm sure would've gotten a fourth season had the third one been produced in 2014 instead of 2006.

Which is all just a digressive way of saying that, with Carnivale, it was an unfortunate case of wrong place/wrong time. And yet, maybe I'm being too optimistic, and Carnivale would've been cancelled no matter when it premiered; after all, it's by far the slowest-moving HBO drama out there, and it's easy for people with marginal interest in the immediate setting/characters/aesthetics to just tune out when they realize it's not going to move as quickly as they're used to. It takes some pretty big balls to not resolve your story's main arc until the end of not the first but the second season! It's precisely those qualities, though, that made Carnivale so unique and so much more like some kind of old novel come to life than a TV show.

"Your mental capacity isn't the only problem. You also have the sensibility of a cow on morphine."

[–] BreakingDexter 10 years ago

Such bullshiet! They cancel this great show but let Game of Thrones go on forever.

[–] SomeBlueDevil 9 years ago

Brother Justin was my favorite charachter. BRILLIANT acting! He was so convincing in how he delivered his character. And wow, to see him develop into that dark scary person...

He did do an excellent job. Maybe in part because he has experience in playing the bad guy. Remember him as Kurgan in Highlander? That voice is just perfectly evil. LOL My favorite exchange right here:

Priest: This is a house of God. People are trying to pray. You're disturbing them.
Kurgan: He cares about these helpless mortals?
Priest: Of course He cares. He died for our sins.
Kurgan: That shall be His undoing.
[gets up]
Kurgan: Father! Forgive me , I am a worm...
[starts laughing diabolically]
Kurgan: [to everyone in the church] I have something to say! It's better to burn out than to fade away!

"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."

[–] no_dice_nate 9 years ago

Hey there, hakko. I felt the same way as you did about both Ben Hawkins and Hack Scudder. Hawkins was a bit of a bore at first having nothing to say but 'go to hell,' 'leave me alone,' etc., but I liked that he was like that. He annoyed me, but I felt it made the show better, if that makes any sense at all. He came around in the second season and it would have been interesting to see him in the third sans healing gift. As far as Scudder, he was probably the only thing I really didn't like about the show as a whole, but thankfully that didn't end up taking anything away from it since it was just so good otherwise. John Savage is just not a very good actor to me (I only cared for his work in The Deer Hunter) and the character of Scudder was such an incredible letdown after seeing all the flashbacks, hearing all the tales, and having him built up to be this monumental, meaningful figure. Some of that is the result of the way the character was written and what he did on the show in real time once Ben found him, but some of it is also due to Savage's performance. Another actor definitely could have made that character a lot more memorable for me.

[–] random_guy2 9 years ago

They probably would have gotten into this more if there were more seasons, but if you read some of the mythology stuff behind the show, Scudder being a bit of a let-down was intentional. There were lines of these Avatars, and although they all had power, some used it to great effect (some of the most famous people in history were supposed to have been Avatars), while others, like Scudder, squandered and avoided their potential.