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HBO's explanation for why Carnivale was canceled

posted 10 years ago by eolloe
15 replies | jump to latest

Just a reminder of the reason HBO gave for declining to renew Carnivale for a third season.

HBO announced late Friday [July 2005] that its comedy series "Entourage, " the best original program on the network these days, has been renewed for a third season.

But fans of the canceled "Carnivale" should find a new way to spend their time. It won't be back, despite their efforts.

"Never have we gotten besieged the way we have been besieged by "Carnivale" fans for deciding to not go on with the third season of that show," said HBO chairman and CEO Chris Albrecht. "Literally, 50,000 e-mails over a weekend, and I don't mean the first weekend. It is so over the top, not just in terms of the number, but in terms of things that they say and threaten."

Albrecht said if the series hadn't cost about $4 million per episode, it would have returned.

"If 'Carnivale' was a $2 million-an-hour show, we'd keep going with it," he said. "It's not a big show for foreign [distribution] You just have to say, 'Can I take this money and allocate it in other ways to appeal to that same audience?' Although after reading the e-mails, I'm not sure."

He also said in the original concept for the second-season finale, Brother Justin (Clancy Brown) was more definitively dead, giving the show a greater sense of closure than it ultimately had.

Albrecht sounded somewhat regretful about his decision, and perhaps one of the factors that went into making it.

"This is an example of why you shouldn't listen to critics," he said. "Everybody [pooped] all over that show."

http://www.toledoblade.com/TV-Radio/2005/07/20/Funny-business

As for how the show ended, viewers weren't the only ones taken by surprise. Albrecht said he originally thought the plan for the second season was for an ending ''where you didn't have to go on. At the end, (the makers of the show) decided to kind of change that a little bit, which turned into a little bit more of a cliffhanger.''

http://www.ohio.com/blogs/heldenfiles/the-heldenfiles-online-1.258385/ sopranos-carnivale-1.258403

[–] don-lope-de-aguirre 10 years ago

Albrecht sounds like the show was concepted or pitched as a 2 season show and the makers tricked them into a cliffhanger.

I have a hard time believing this. In fact Carolyn Strauss ssaid in public a short before the cancelation that they plan to continue the show for more seasons.

I can totally see though that HBO wanted more of a conclusion for season 2 before the last episode(s) were shot and edited.
As we all know Knauf didn't want to let go of his vision and therefore I understand the dissapointment and uncomfort that that had for HBO.

[–] don-lope-de-aguirre 10 years ago

Knauf always describes the story of Carnivale as planned for 6 seasons.
3 chapters (called "books") with 2 seasons each.
Book 1 (1934-1935); book 2 (1939-1940); book 3 (1944-1945)

It was stated that the costs of producing Carnivale would have exploded after the first book (after Season 2).

The higher costs and the opportunity to cancel the show after the first chapter with the most obvious questions from the chapter resolved and a battle between the protagonist and antagonist most likely aided to the decision to cancel Carnivale at exactly that time.

[–] undomiel152003-1 10 years ago

The show was always pitched for six seasons. It was incredibly well scripted, produced, etc which was the cost. However, they spend about the same in Game of Thrones per episode. So the issue wasn't the cost. It was the viewership. Despite the show being critically acclaimed, and having a fanbase, the show was in many ways ahead of it's time. At that time, the shoe was too "odd" for the country. It was too complex and intertwined, and the last time the country had such a show it was Twin Peaks. Which by the way, was a cult show, but wasn't followed as much. In fact, let's be honest, the theme of Carnivals itself interests a certain group but it is in fact a niche. Take Freakshow American Horror Story, while it is not the same, the setting, a Carnivale, is pretty much the same. It is one of the seasons that has has the least likes (despite the solid writing in my point of view in comparison to the Coven season).

Quit ya moanin

[–] trudat20 10 years ago

The cost killed the series.

Brother Justin was not dead. The last thing we saw was Sophie laying hands on him and the corn field dying. So, we are to assume that Sophie brought him back to life and she finally chose which side wanted to be since she shot Jonsey and healed Justin. Ultimately, we would have to contend with either Justin & Sophie as the antagonist or either or.

Oh man! Bring this show back.

Silence is Golden and duct tape is Silver

[–] Marionj2 10 years ago

HBO gave cost as the excuse for killing the series, but in fact the 4-million-per-episode was agreed on from the beginning, and the series came in on budget.

There were several reasons it died. HBO expected it to be a huge hit, because after the Sopranos, they owned Sunday night, so they didn't promote it the way they would now. The second year they hardly promoted it at all, and it ran against events like the Super Bowl and the Oscars. After those events, it picked up viewership again, but it was too late.

At that point, ratings were based on only the first showing, not repeats, so the passionate fans who recorded it to watch repeatedly, but watched it for the first time by watching the recording after, say, watching the Super Bowl, didn't count. HBO then didn't care about mobile devices either. Chris Albrecht once said that Carnivale would never be shown on an iPod (that's not a typo - that's what he said).

The other reason was that they started filming Rome at huge costs. The budget was 10 million per episode - they ended up having to tear down and rebuild the set. So Carnivale paid the price.

[–] smcbee27 10 years ago

If HBO only counted immediate viewer numbers then those executives need to move into the nursing home now. This show is geared for young adults. And it's industry knowledge that they watch TV shows on their schedule not the other way around. Every network counts DVR viewership now! It changes total shares. The Nielsen Rating days have been over for a few years now. I can't imagine that HBO is bases their cancellation decision on out of date formulas.

Really stinks for me. I didn't know it was canceled but had heard such good things about it I decided to give it a go on Amazon. So, one show in and I read this.? I can't imagine how frustrated fans are by this news..I'm surprised HBO didn't change their mind. Any chance another network will pick it up?

[–] rric6973 10 years ago

Despite its untimely demise, you would do yourself a disservice not going through with watching it. Plus, there is a lot of information out there about what would have happened with the story that you will find satisfying.

The problem with continuation in any form (TV, film, book, comic) is that HBO owns the show and characters across all media and they just sit on it.

[–] Ghosthunter123424 10 years ago

I watched it recently and thought it might have had potential, but overall it kind of stank a bit.

[–] eolloe 10 years ago

Every network counts DVR viewership now!

Not many people owned DVRs 10+ years ago, when this show was being produced.
It was possible to set a VCR to record at a certain time, but a lot of people never figured out how to actually use that function. lol

[–] jawaburger-166-605328 9 years ago

I am not sure that Sofie was healing Justin, I think Justin was already dead. The last shot of the show was Ben in the trailer with his wound completely healed. I think Sofie was healing Ben and not Justin. At least that is my interpretation.

[–] pwrof3willsetufree 9 years ago

And ratings. You have to remember that this show was never really huge in the ratings. Deadwood was a more popular show and was allowed a third season, but then cancelled before a proper ending was allowed.
Also, on the DVD features for season 2, some of the cast interviews mentioned that the sales for the first season DVDs were very poor and that kind of sealed the deal. :/

[–] shogunreaper 8 years ago

How did the show cost that much?

It had no special effects that i could see.

and all the locations seemed to be almost the exact same.

[–] VincentPriceIzRight 8 years ago

Do you have any idea how much it costs to make the show authentically look like the 30's? From wardrobe to vehicles to the carnivale rides....the rentals on the automobiles is enormous.

[–] aer71367-313-155069 8 years ago

Probably a lot less than making things blow up. Even cable tv is hopeless.

[–] VincentPriceIzRight 8 years ago

Not correct at all. Today and even the last 5 years CGI and blue/green screen programs have become incredibly cost effective. For instance look at STARZ Spartacus series which is 90% CGI and then look at HBO's Rome where there's mostly built sets...there's a big difference in quality and it doesn't favor CGI.