MovieChat Forums > Big Fish (2004) Discussion > Communist Ventriloquist

Communist Ventriloquist


When the puppeteer guy is performing in front of the Red Army, and he bombs out and the MC has him dragged off the stage (this is just before the singing twins come on), what's he saying?

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I believe what he's saying can be roughly translated as: "Oh dag-nabbit!"

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUQe0P5N3BI

The guy is speaking in Tagalog, a Filipino language yet he's in the RED Chinese army? Lol! I guess a sign of the lie?

PS. The subtitles are incomplete though & it's hard to understand some of the words, he says things that seem out of context, maybe someone else can listen & try to translate it.

puppet: Ikaw? Wala ka bang sasabihin ______ mo? Tsina tsansingan ko? Akala mo lang.


Aren't you going to say your _______? I'll pervert it? It's just your assumption.



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Thanks!

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The ventriloquist was actually complaining about the length of the shoot and making hilarious suggestive (and as far as I can tell, definitely unscripted) jokes about the fact that his hand was in the puppet's ass. I think they just put him on the stage and told him to "speak Asian" or something like that, perhaps counting on the fact that most of the English-speaking audience won't understand a word.

Puppet: 'Sus! Kanina pa ako salitâ nang salitâ dito, pagod na pagod na ako. Ikaw, wala bang <unintelligible> chinachancingan mo ako? Akala mo lang... init na init na ako't pinapawisan.
<cut>
Ventriloquist:...habang basang-basâ sa pawis mo.
Puppet: Hahahaha, akala mo pawis yan? Ihî yan.
<soldier speaking Mandarin Chinese interrupts>


It can be translated as the following (as close to intended meaning as possible):

Puppet: Jeez! I've been talking and talking here for hours now, I'm sooo tired. How about you? Don't you <unintelligible> you're feeling me up? That's just what you think... I'm sooo hot and I'm sweating profusely.
<cut>
Ventriloquist:...while I'm drenched in your sweat.
Puppet: Hahahaha, you think that's sweat? It's urine.
<soldier speaking Mandarin Chinese interrupts>


Notes:
"Chancing" is a Philippine English colloquialism from English "To take a chance". It's equivalent to the English phrase "to cop a feel", and refers to inappropriately or suggestively touching someone (usually on the butt or breasts) while making it look like an accident. In this case, the verb is spoken in pidgin form with the infix "-in-", repetition of the first syllable, and the suffix "-an" giving it a present continuous tense. The original word is also a verb, not a gerund despite its construction.

"Sus" is a contraction of the Spanish interjection ""Jesús!". Equivalent to the English "Jeez!" and "Jesus!"

The three languages also sound very different from each other, actually belonging to three completely separate language families. Chinese belongs to the Sino-Tibetan language family. It is a tonal language, in which the same syllable spoken in a different pitch can change its meaning entirely. To western viewers it characteristically sounds "sing-song" because of constant shifts in pitch when spoken. Korean belongs to the Altaic language family. It is a limited pitch accent language (similar to some European languages), in which specific words always have stresses on certain syllables. To western viewers it sounds very similar to Japanese (which is also an Altaic language). Filipino, on the other hand, belongs to the Austronesian language family, the languages spoken by the "islander" ethnicities (including Malagasy, Indonesians, Hawaiians, and the Maori). It is not tonal, which is why the ventriloquist in the movie can deliver his performance completely deadpan. Like English and Spanish, it utilizes both sentence and syllable stressing (e.g. raising the pitch on a specific word in a sentence means attention should be focused on it; some words can change meaning depending on what syllable is stressed, similar to English "desert" vs. "dessert").

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NICE!

A little correction though, it's spelled "tsansing", not chancing.

PS. Never heard before that "tsansing" came from an english term "taking a chance." Tnx for the info. I don't think any Filipinos know that.



Global Warming, it's a personal decision innit? - Nigel Tufnel

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The 'tsansing' spelling is the result of the artificial "nativization" of the word per the previous recommendations of the Philippine language commission, probably because of the nationalistic goal of removing or at least hiding colonial influence during the Marcos era. A movement perhaps inspired by the adoption of the letter K in modern Tagalog/Filipino orthography (instead of the letter C in Spanish-era Tagalog) first proposed by Rizal and implemented during the American commonwealth. The Americans encouraged it to erase traces of the Spanish influence on the language.

It's similar to the spellings for 'dyip' for "jeep" or 'erpleyn' for "airplane". I dislike it intensely. It adds nothing to the language, actually leaving it poorer by hiding almost 400 years of Philippine history. Besides, it encourages poor spelling. :P

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But that happens in every language, look for example at Japan, when they adopt an English word, they Japinize it. This also happens in Filipino, look at the word "intinde" from a Spanish word "intiendez." This is not unique to the Philippines & has nothing to do with colonialism mentality. Also, we don't say "chancing", I have always said "tsansing" - it is Filipinised, as it should be.

The spelling for "dyip" for "jeep" ot "tsansing" for "chancing" or "syota" for "shota" is because in traditional Filipino or many Filipino languages, we did not have "ch", "sh", "j", or "v" & they were transliterated to the closest thing in our phonology - "ts" "ty" "tiy" or "sy" "siy" or "diy" "dy" or "b".

It is not poor spelling, it is Filipino, you are showing large traces of Filipino colonial mentality, thinking that it makes you inferior to use Filipino phonology or orthography as opposed to Western one. This is our biggest setback, Filipinos who assume anything Filipino is inferior. This spelling & orthography was worked on by Rizal himself.

It actually encourages poor spelling in Filipino because laymen & common Filipinos do not even know how to spell both english & Filipino words properly, at the very least they should know how to spell Filipino.

Global Warming, it's a personal decision innit? - Nigel Tufnel

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Not true, sorry. Many traditional Filipino cultures actually have the sounds they removed in the 1980s version of the Filipino alphabet. The Ifugao of Central Luzon and Manuvu of Central Mindanao for instance, have native F and V sounds. The Bisaya (including the Hiligaynon) and the Moro peoples have native J, Ch, Sh, and Z sounds (e.g. Bajau, Zamboanga). The insistence on removing those letters were not based on the absence of those sounds, but were the result of Tagalog chauvinism, which is still evident today.

Rizal himself was a very poor Tagalog speaker. His native tongue was Spanish. He didn't even know what the Tagalog word for "freedom" was, a fact recorded in his letters. And Rizal didn't work on the national language, he only proposed the C->K change. And it was only implemented long after he was dead (the 1920s to be precise, when the Commonwealth government formed the precursor of the language commission). Early drafts of the "Filipino language" was also quite good, actually utilizing many different words from different languages of the Philippines. But by the 1940s to 1950s, all of that was forgotten, and it was decided that Tagalog would be the basis for the national language provided that elements from other Philippine languages would be added to it later on. However, more than half a century later, our national language is still Tagalog. No effort has been made to make it truly national despite earlier plans for it. There still is nothing of any other languages of the Philippines in the national language.

Heck, most teachers today still deny the fact that "Filipino language" is more or less synonymous with Tagalog. They're content in accusing anyone who dares disrespect it with foreign additions as traitors to the country. As you're doing right now. I mean... jeez. It's been a hundred years, isn't it? We're not exactly at war with Spain or the US anymore.

How many Filipinos can actually read Noli mi Tangere the way it was meant to be read? How many know the exact words Pigafetta wrote about the Philippines? How many songs and cundimans like Flor de Manila have been lost simply because people don't understand their lyrics anymore? Do you know just how much history is actually unknown to most modern Filipinos simply because they don't understand Spanish? 300 years. And 300 years of history is not something you can simply throw away and pretend it never happened.

The difference between "intindi" and "dyip" is that the former achieved its spelling through natural linguistic evolution. The latter is imposed by classroom conventions as a way to "separate" the indigenous from the non-indigenous. I distinctly remember an elementary school lesson where the teacher taught us how to "convert" English words into "acceptable" Filipino spelling. And the way to do that was simple: spell it like how an imaginary uneducated tribesman would spell it.

Japanese phonology and orthography is significantly different from English, that gairaigo and wasei-eigo ("loanwords") must necessarily be quite different from the original. The average Japanese person simply can not pronounce some English phonemes. The Chinese have a similar problem, though it has to do more with grammar - their languages lack tenses. Filipinos, in contrast, have no such excuses. There might be a slight difference in accents, but all Filipinos CAN pronounce all the English phonemes perfectly. Filipinos can't even plead isolation, given that English is one of the two official languages of the country and is the language of choice in almost everything "official".

Filipino orthography is INVENTED, it's not the natural state of the language. I don't take pride in whitewashing and denial sorry. Nor am I still stuck in the past that I must consciously excise all foreign influence in my language just to prove that I'm proud of my heritage.

P.S. Another common misconception among Filipinos is that Castilian Spanish pronounced V like the English V. Actually they pronounced it like B. "Visayas" was originally pronounced "Bisayas" even by the Spanish. The introduction of Spanish pronunciation even led to the loss of native V sounds. The Manuvu for example, are now referred to by most other Filipinos as Manobo. Ivatan became Batanes, T'voli became T'boli, etc.

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There's too much good information in this thread to let it disappear. I'm bumping it before it's gone...

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good point...

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