MovieChat Forums > Dogville (2004) Discussion > Decent film, ruined by Euroweenie anti-A...

Decent film, ruined by Euroweenie anti-Americanism

posted 12 years ago by The_Great_Pantubo
21 replies | jump to latest

The minimalism works well, the acting is fantastic with the notable exception of Chloe Sevigny, and the morality message is a good one. Sure it's too long and too slow but if you know that going in you'll be fine.

However, it only works if the film is about evil in general. And unfortunately, the director makes it painfully clear that he is just another anti-American moron, and he is trying to explicitly express his hatred against America. The depression-era photos, the Bowie song, and the fact that this is supposed to be part of a trilogy sarcastically entitled "America: Land of Opportunity" ... dear God Lars, could you be any more of a Eurotrash stereotypical dope?

Apparently not, and it's too bad.

[–] Bellatrice 12 years ago

I agree with you, just about. I loved the film and thought it was a non-judgemental revealing of the human condition. The whole perpetrator/bystander/victim thing was brilliantly underscored.

IMHO LVT is an *beep* but despite himself he made a film that was universal in nature. As for the ending, it seemed as if he remembered that he had wanted to make an anti-American statement so he tacked on Walker Evan's and Dorothy Lange's photographic documentation of the misery of the depression-era dustbowl victims. (Sorry, Lars, these photos underscore humanity and caring.) I just love when other nations pretend there's no blood on their hands.

No-one in their right mind would think that America is perfect. Just look at our history of dissent. WE were the ones who protested the loudest against issues we felt strongly about. The David Bowie song (which I like) was a sophomoric statement about how clueless the American is. Lars is being a sanctimonious p#%£k, personifying that which he condemns.

Still I loved this movie, loved "Breaking the Waves" and "Melancholia" as well. I never saw "Dancing in the Dark" and I can't bring myself to watch "Anti-Christ."

Stepping off soapbox now:)

--------------------

"Austerity" is a word said mainly by people with a full stomach.

[–] dustypistol 10 years ago

"Dancing in the Dark" is an amazing film. Absolutely brilliant. Sad, yes, but there's so much else going on - don't worry, it's not nearly so bleak as Dogville. Give it a shot :)

[–] KennethWasHere 12 years ago

However, it only works if the film is about evil in general

It is.

the director makes it painfully clear that he is just another anti-American moron, and he is trying to explicitly express his hatred against America

Trier has stated that the film is actually about how "evil can arise anywhere". If I'm not mistaken, he also said that he based some of the characters on people he encountered living in Denmark. He's expressed some pretty clear contempt for George W. Bush and certain American foreign policy, but to my knowledge, he hasn't expressed contempt for America itself.

The depression-era photos, the Bowie song, and the fact that this is supposed to be part of a trilogy sarcastically entitled "America: Land of Opportunity"

Trier is a part-time (at least) troll. I'm pretty sure he only did this to get under the skin of critics who said that he couldn't make a film dealing with American life if he hadn't ever been to the country himself (something that came up after he made Dancer in the Dark).

[–] gconey521 12 years ago

It is about evil in general. One could argue that this is why he uses such an international cast in the film (including Harriet Andersson, who doesn't even attempt to hide her accent).

The fact that it is set in America is intentional, but not because Lars is singling Americans out. For many, America is seen as this golden land of freedom, but von Trier is saying "Evil can happen-- EVEN HERE." He uses America as an example that evil can happen anywhere. So, while he's singling out America, it's not implying that this would ONLY happen in America. In fact, the film was originally conceived as a comment on the Danish immigration system.

[–] rubi6047 12 years ago

Sweet. Didn't know it was still 2005 and people seriously ran around saying "Anti-American! Anti-American!" seriously.

"Cry mich ein river."

[–] Farshnoshket 12 years ago

I just saw the film for the first time myself and I would guess he chose to write about America back then because it was still a growing nation which had communities/towns which fit well with his story. I'm sure he could have picked many areas around world, but picking a spot in America does not mean the writer is picking on America. I live in America and I certainly don't see it that way, rather it made it easier for myself to relate to the story, evil or not.

Is the film about evil or nature?

What confuses me most about this film is the naivety given to the group of town's people?

Maybe I haven't given it enough thought yet, but wouldn't killing her be their best choice vs. giving her back to someone they thought wanted to kill her?

[–] gconey521 12 years ago

But, remember, they thought there would be a reward in it for them if they turned her over to the gangsters.

First, they kept her because she was cheap/free labor. And then they kept her probably because, as disgusting as it is, the men in the town wanted to keep abusing her. Once they thought she was a liability, they decided to turn her over and collect the reward, which obviously turned out to be a bad move on their part.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] gert-janroodehal 11 years ago

Why, why, WHY can't you fat-asses even take the slightest amount of critisism?! There are so many things wrong with your country and your stubbornness to see these things even make matters worse!

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] BigFatLou 10 years ago

"Freedom, peace, and justice" are just words, unless you back them up with actions.

If America truly believed in Freedom, then it would not have supported dictators in Chile, Haiti, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, the DRC, Liberia, Croatia, Nicaragua, Panama, Bahrain, Pakistan, Tunisia, Egypt, Uganda.... the list goes on.

If America truly believed in peace, then it would not have supported war in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, the Philippines, Vietnam, Yugoslavia... the list goes on.

If America truly believed in justice, then it would follow the rule of law (see COINTELPRO, Presidential drone assassinations, the Trail of Tears, etc.).

As for your assertion that the US was supporting democracy by overthrowing dictators, the empirical evidence fails to support that. See the following paper by academics: https://files.nyu.edu/db1299/public/ColdWarNBER.pdf

We need to stop making assertions, and actually back up our opinions with facts. Only then can political discourse advance beyond childish rhetoric.

[–] gert-janroodehal 10 years ago

Most criticism of America is unfounded. America has always stood for freedom, peace, and justice since day one. You cannot criticize America without criticizing those things.

You have got to be kidding me! So I take your point is: America can't be critized, unless you oppose freedom, peace and justice?

It's this kind of attitude that makes matters worse, just be open to critisism. The USA is the biggest most powerfull country in the world. That's a huge responsibility, so take it serious and start with dialogue, quit the ignorance, stubborness and arrogance.

[–] zodiac23 11 years ago

the only moron is you i'm afraid. i'll bet you're an american aren't you?

anti americanism is good. it's healthy. it's the correct thing to portray because truth be told, the world needs a bit of a dose of reality. they need to understand that america used to be great but is no longer because she has lost her moral compass. she no longer holds claim to the moral high ground.

the america of today is the embodiment of the evil the film attempts to portray. today, it is the disgusting bully that terrorizes the rest of the world with the threat of violence. it then uses its highly effective propaganda machine to convince the rest of the world that it actually cares about things such as human rights, democracy, freedom and children. nothing could be further from the truth.

the US military spends $1 trillion annually on its budget, more money than all other nations on earth combined. it has something like 1000 military installations in 160 different countries around the globe. it is the world's largest arms and weapons manufacturer. so if the US military doesn't kill you directly, they will sell you the weapons to kill yourselves.

it is sad to see what the military industrial complex has done to the US, a country that has been in a non stop war since the end of WWII. if a real threat or conflict does not exist then the pentagon will create one by provoking other countries into a conflict just as its doing right now in the ukraine by implementing an illegal regime change and replacing the old leader with a new one whose loyalty is with the west.

the sooner the american govt. falls the better. i should add that the american ppl are for the most part good, friendly and kind.

[–] AnythingButTheButton 10 years ago

Amen.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] zodiac23 10 years ago

Unfortunately, it is delusional folks such as yourself that is the reason for America's decline. You demonstrate your ignorance and lack of economic understanding by falsely believing that the US has recovered from the 2008 recession. What you don't understand is that the entire US economy is a Ponzi scheme and is currently only being kept afloat because of the new credit that the federal reserve creates and stores on its balance sheet. Take away this new debt and the US economy falls right back into recession. But this is a topic for a different thread.

Your arrogance and your lack of understanding of history is astounding to me. If you had actually cracked open a history book you would have learned that all empires eventually come to an end. It's as simple as that. Don't get me wrong, I love what the United States used to be but not what it is today. The United States that I knew is only a memory and I'm not talking about just economics. I'm referring to principles, ideas, a system of merit as well as a federal government that used to work for the people.

Today the US is nothing more than a government largely run and controlled by Israel, the military-industrial complex, the international banking cartel, as well as other big business and special interest groups. If some of these terms are not familiar to you, I suggest googling them for more information. Or you can do what most people do which is laugh, insult or simply nothing.

[–] eolloe 10 years ago

Don't get me wrong, I love what the United States used to be but not what it is today.

What it used to be when exactly?

[–] 10 years ago

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