How did Tom use Grace? (spoilers in thread)

In my opinion, he would not have turned her in if she had put out. The town would have eventually killed her as Tom was an ineffectual do-nothing narcissist. He was not a "nice guy" as evidenced by him thinking it was okay to sentence the woman he supposedly loved to death because she made him doubt himself.

If everything you try works, you aren't trying hard enough. ~ Gordon Moore

The term "putting out" is offensive.

Tom used Grace by: Posing as the town's spoke person on all issues, including moral judgements. She made herself vulnerable with Tom in order to gain acceptance with the town. Linked to this she responded to Tom as an equal and ally and began to fall in love with him. She allowed him to court her; this does not equal "putting out". His biggest betrayal was not decrying the behaviour of the town's people after they turned against her, not stopping the rapes whilst expecting her to allow him sexual congress whilst being raped and then, when she tried to escape, he told on her! Ultimately he brought about the town's destruction by revealing the business card and telephone number of the man who we learn was her gangster father.

Tom was an intellectual dilettante and moral coward.

I hope you are a young person because your use of "putting out" makes you a morally dubious person in society if you are mature.

A bird sings and the mountain's silence deepens.

"But she didn't know that, because he said he had burned the business card."

She said later that she knew he never burned it.

"Yes, he was trying to do nice things in order for her to be with him, but is that using a person?"

Yes. As a woman who has had certain "friends" use their "niceness" as a way to make me feel I owed them something in return (sex / a kiss / a relationship), that's actually one of the worst and cruelest ways you can use someone. To make them think you're a friend, doing things only to help them, then say "well you know I did these things so how can you turn me down now" - it's really appalling.

If you do something kind, do it out of the goodness of your heart and for the other person, because they're human and in need of something. If you just do it to get them to like you / be with you, it's not kind at all. It's abusive to use "nice things" you've done to get things from the other person. Like emotional blackmail. If you did nice things to get things back from the other person, or to get them to like you, you never did anything nice at all.

"And by not putting out"

Wow, I somehow skimmed over this the first time I responded to your comment.

She probably wasn't having sex with him A) because she was being repeatedly raped, that can really make a person not feel sexy or romantic AT ALL and B) it seemed like she really liked him, so she didn't want them to get together while she was A SLAVE to the town, being abused all day long. She wanted it to be in better circumstances. She even said that to him flat out.

She should never have had sex with him if she didn't want to. No matter what he did for her. That's really messed-up thinking.

And if you think at all that she was doing anything just to get things from him, you didn't watch the movie at all. Did you notice the situation she was in? Would you NOT let someone try to help you if you were tied up and being raped? Wtf? Are you really saying she should have had sex with him in return for him being nice or helping her to escape?

Sex should never be given IN RETURN for ANYTHING, unless both people want to it should never be done at all.

Jesus Christ. I hope you figure that one out because that's not a good way to look at human relationships. Or sex. :(

"Speaking of, as a side question, would Tom have turned on Grace had she put out at the end? Or would he have taken her side?"


Jesus Christ. "Putting out", eh?

No, I suspect that the morally bankrupt town and spineless Tom would have ultimately killed her or called the gangsters to kill her no matter what.

Dogville is full of petty, delusional, despicable, cruel monsters. As soon as the town, and Tom, had no more use for her, she'd be gone.

If she'd allowed Tom to have his way with her, he'd have gotten what he wanted. He'd move on to new moral conundrums and leave her to the rapists, deluding himself into thinking he'd tried his best.

I think Tom was part of Grace's Dogville fantasy. We know Grace fell in love with Dogville, at least her superficial notion of it; its mountains, apples and simple folk. It's why she collected those sentimental porcelain figurines. She even says her old self would have found them ridiculous. It was all part of her reinvention of herself. She didn't really like Tom in my opinion but she was willing to buy into the myth that Tom had created for himself, because it fitted in with the fantasy she was living.




Done with fish.