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Queer as Folk Marathon - Season 1 - Episode 2


Hey, QAF marathoners! I started the thread for the second episode earlier this time because I’m gonna have a hectic week, and won’t be able to get to it before next weekend. Feel free to post whenever you’re ready. Loved all the discussion of 101! Even though I’ve watched that episode a lot of times, it’s amazing how much I’m learning with the precious fresh comments of our group. Let’s move on.

Episode 102

Well, 102 focuses on the real lives of our boys as working men in their day jobs. Who has the most boring job? I can’t imagine how tedious it must be for Michael to walk around that huge store checking out merchandise (Tracey is a doll though and Marley is a witch!). Well, accounting is not the most exciting occupation in the world either, no wonder Ted takes his “porn breaks" every once in a while. I believe Emmett’s job as a window designer (or whatever it is called) at least requires some creativity, and he is working in a shop at Liberty Avenue, Pittsburgh’s gay district, which allows him to live out of the closet.

From this first scene we can imply that Ted is the only one (besides Brian) who has a college education, and is the one who works in the most formal corporate environment; coming out of the closet would put an end to any ambition he might have to grow in the company. Fortunately, at least Emmett can be his fabulous self in his job. They all are in a conference call talking about trivialities! I don’t remember them doing that ever again in the show. Funny that considering their educational and professional backgrounds and situations, I wouldn't say they were likely to be friends in real life. Being gay seems to be the only thing they all have in common. I would like to know how they became friends. We know Brian and Michael have been friends since high school. We know that Emmett didn't know anyone in town when he moved from Mississipi to Pittsburgh. We know that Emmett and Michael have been roommates for 2 years, but we don't know if they were friends before becoming roommates. I don't know anything else about them as a group. Maybe they met in Babylon, but I can't visualize any possibility of Ted joining the group, unless he was introduced by one of the others. Anyway, they really work as a group.

There is Brian! He’s got it all: a fabulous job, a magnificent office, a personal assistant, a creative successful position, which suggests he has money and power. From the foursome, he’s the one who manages to have real sex during working hours! What’s with that green apple? Who eats during a business presentation to a client? I think that scene is similar to Brian pouring water on himself in the previous episode. Maybe it happened only in the mind of the client he has sex with later in the bathroom. Is that what you call heightened reality, fairpenguin?

Well, Justin’s day time job is school! And he makes the most of it peeking at his male school mates in the locker room after football practice! Anyway, what's he doing in the locker room all dressed up in uniform and carrying books? He's not part of the football team, that's for sure. Typical teenage past time. Am I the only one who thinks Justin had a schoolboy crush on Chris Hobbs? I loved Daphne since the first time. She is a real friend. Justin’s report of last night's events wasn’t so accurate. I don’t believe Brian said he loved him and that he wanted to be inside of him forever. I think this is the heightened reality fairpenguin was talking about. Either his recollection is not exactly according to the facts, or he is lying to Daphne. But I believe that he believes in what he’s saying. He says he loves Brian, after only one night of sex. Typical teenager!

However, Justin has a reality check when he meets Brian at Woody's, and Brian ditches him! Poor Justin was so disappointed! I loved the interaction of the boys in the bar and the charming story about Patrick Swayze (RIP), and Brian's reaction when Justin guessed his age.

Question: Brian takes Michael from that straight bar saying that he needs him. Then he takes Michael to Woody's, where they stay for only 10 minutes, then Brian takes off leaving Michael behind. Why did he need Michael for?

I can’t make up my mind about Michael’s intentions when he takes Justin to the diner. I wonder if he had that conversation before with any of Brian’s tricks. Was he worried because Justin was so young and clueless? Or was he jealous and wanted to make sure that Justin wouldn’t go after Brian? Did he feel Justin was different and could really be a menace? Did he want to break Justin’s heart? Was he afraid that Justin could be like him, with no life, only following Brian around? Who knows?

There comes Deb in her first funny T-shirt. I can’t read it, the vest is hiding the words. But this is the first time she calls Justin “Sunshine”. Awwww!!!!! He is a sunshine, indeed. How dare Michael order food for Justin without asking him what he wanted and even if he wanted to eat?

There is something out of character about Brian in this episode. He’s in front of the mirror, in his apartment, checking out his clothes and hair, while waiting for the trick. What was that about? Where’s his philosophy of “who gives a *beep* You’re lucky to have me”? When the bell rings and Brian turns around, Gale’s thinness is so visible. It doesn’t look like him!

The trick was really unattractive and generic. Despite that, I like that trick because he was kind to Justin. By the way, this is the first time Brian gets Justin’s name right, when he introduces Justin to Mr. Good *beep*.

The last scene broke my heart. First, ewwwww for Brian for walking barefoot on the street! I don’t even walk barefoot at home! The fact that Brian says “Mike’s been talking to you” makes me think that this is not the first time this kind of situation happens. Poor Justin.

However, I like that Brian was honest with Justin, although by sleeping with him the following week he involuntarily did send mixed messages to Justin . But then Brian says they can’t be together because of their age difference, which is a flimsy excuse for not being together. Basically he gives Justin two reasons for them not being together: he didn’t believe in love and their age difference. I don’t think Justin was convinced. But his pain was totally clear.

Looking forward to reading other marathoners’ insights on this episode.

"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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Thank you for the new thread, E-oliver. :)

First, ewwwww for Brian for walking barefoot on the street!

Thank you!

I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who noticed that. As germaphobic as I am, there is no way that same thought hadn't crossed my mind. I know he was trying to catch Justin before he had left, but he seriously should have considered how filthy the ground could've been. I just hope he washed his feet off before he got back in his bed. Ick!
Question: Brian takes Michael from that straight bar saying that he needs him. Then he takes Michael to Woody's, where they stay for only 10 minutes, then Brian takes off leaving Michael behind. Why did he need Michael for? []

I just think he did that because he knew how Michael had a weakness for him, and answered to his every beckoning call. Therefore, Brian was being his usual manipulative self. But I'm so glad that Michael listened to Brian this time and left, because fat Marley and the rest of the gang he was hanging out with (except Tracy), were seriously getting on my nerves.

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Hahaha! I'm not a germaphobe but I hate walking barefoot, even on the beach. I wear flip-flops while I'm in the shower!

I just think he did that because he knew how Michael had a weakness for him, and answered to his every beckoning call.

Now that I'm thinking about it, Brian had just come from Mel and Linsay's. He was very upset because they wanted him to sign the insurance documents. Is it just me or asking him to sign those papers the day after the baby was born was very insensitive of them? I'm sure it was Mel's idea, and Mel hates him. They could have waited a few months, to see if Brian would be part of the baby's life before asking so much.





"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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Hahaha! Hey, fairpenguin!  Nice to have you back!

I have a friend who lives in Adelaide and she told me people there wear flip-flops everywhere they go! Here in Brazil, we only wear them in very casual occasions, on the beach, swimming pool, barbecue parties and so on. My friend also told me that it's not rare to see Australians walking barefoot on the street. This is somethig you'll not see here. We never go to the street barefoot. Actually, I lived in Japan for a few years and adopted their habit of taking their my shoes off as soon as they enter my home and putting on slippers. In my apartment, I have a shoe cupboard in the entry hall, so I don't have to bring whatever is stuck to my shoe when I was walking outside.

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Those were exactly the flip-flops I was thinking about, fairpenguin. Thank you for the pictures. We have a major Brazilian flip-flop industry called [i]Havaianas[i], I've seen Havaianas stores everywhere in Europe and in the US. Are they in Australia as well?

Here people love Havaianas, I don't like them so much, except for walking around the apartment. When I go out, I often put on at least ballerina flats!

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Probably the ad was appealing to our belief that we're an egalitarian society which is not really true. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

Exaclty like here, fairpenguin! In São Paulo, where I live, people dress a little more formally. But if you go to Rio de Janeiro, you'll notice how casually people dress, Flip flops everywhere, from the slums to the yatchs!





If Justin wants golden gardenias, he should have golden gardenias! Brian Kinney

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Not much to say about this episode. It's a bit slow compared to 101 and 103.

I'd like to mention Ted and his Michael crush. I'm glad this never went anywhere and that Michael never found out. Seems like almost everyone had a thing for him and I cannot figure out why. Must be the boy-next-door...thing.

Also, I believe that Ted was friends with Melanie originally and that's how he became part of the group. There's no way Brian would hang out with him willingly other than that, at least not until seasons 4/5. Funnily enough, Brian and Ted actually have the most in common out of the 4 guys in the group, and if Brian weren't so emotionally stunted I could see a different Brian gravitating towards Ted a lot sooner than during his cancer story line.

The whole thing with Brian at work, and the apple...pure sensationalism. That's American TV for ya. We are not the most realistic and often deal in fantasy. Lots of flashing lights and splash.

Justin - oh yeah, he's totally exaggerating. He even admits so in 108 that Brian never said he loved him and that is was just a fck. He's just trying to make a good story for Daphne. And of course what Justin thinks is love is pure infatuation at the time. He doesn't know Brian yet. He doesn't start to get him until around 112 IMO.

I thought it was nice of Michael to take care of Justin while he was on Liberty Avenue. He didn't have to, but he did. It's especially nice since he's already showing signs of early jealously. I don't quite get why he thinks Justin is suddenly all of their responsibility though. Huh? He's 17, not 5.

The only reason I didn't completely hate Brian yet is because of the look on his face after Justin drives off. The speech he gave him was so obviously rehearsed. But he did care about hurting his feelings. Gale's always been good at having Brian's face and body language say what his words cannot.

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Also, I believe that Ted was friends with Melanie originally and that's how he became part of the group. There's no way Brian would hang out with him willingly other than that, at least not until seasons 4/5. Funnily enough, Brian and Ted actually have the most in common out of the 4 guys in the group, and if Brian weren't so emotionally stunted I could see a different Brian gravitating towards Ted a lot sooner than during his cancer story line.

ITA with it all.

Gale's always been good at having Brian's face and body language say what his words cannot.
I believe he's the reason why I got so obsessed with Brian Kinney. I can relate, understand and see a lot of me (and my best friends) in Brian but I totally hated his original UK counterpart and didn't find anything in common with him (though they're supposedly related).

Brianwashed!

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"Not much to say about this episode. It's a bit slow compared to 101 and 103."

I agree. Work and school are not as exciting as night clubs!

I'd like to mention Ted and his Michael crush. I'm glad this never went anywhere and that Michael never found out.

Actually Michael finds out when Emmett finds a "Michael Shrhine" in Ted's condo when they were trying to keep the porn out of Ted's mom's reach. I am relieved they decided not to continue this storyline, it's really embarrassing. However, it's common people having crushes within a group of friends.

And of course what Justin thinks is love is pure infatuation at the time. He doesn't know Brian yet. He doesn't start to get him until around 112 IMO.

I think Justin's infatuation with Brian replaced his crush for Chris Hobbs.

I thought it was nice of Michael to take care of Justin while he was on Liberty Avenue.

I also think it was nice, but I still think Michael had ulterior motives. He wanted to give Justin a Brian-Kinney 101 lesson.




"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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Now that I'm thinking about it, Brian had just come from Mel and Linsay's. He was very upset because they wanted him to sign the insurance documents. Is it just me or asking him to sign those papers the day after the baby was born was very insensitive of them? I'm sure it was Mel's idea, and Mel hates him. They could have waited a few months, to see if Brian would be part of the baby's life before asking so much.


I didn't like Melanie at all in that scene, because she gave me b*tch vibes. I especially didn't like what she said about Brian and the possibility of him falling ill because of his lifestyle. Sure it may be true, but she alluded to it in a very cold way. I mean, If you're expecting to get money out of someone, you don't go about it that way. But maybe I'm just sensitive.

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I especially didn't like what she said about Brian and the possibility of him falling ill because of his lifestyle.

That was very judgemental. As Vick said once: "Promiscuous is anyone who os having more sex than you!" There's nothing wrong with that. If you take care of yourself, it's your business.






"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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Green apples- tart, juicy and oh so seductive. They surface throughout the series- always associated with Brian. In this episode, they represent "original temptation." When Brian takes a definitive bite of the green apple, I believe he is sending a seductive message to the married client... Temptation, temptation, temptation.... And voila- Brian takes the client into his "Garden Of Eden" and sin is born in the series... The green apple adds a dimensional layer to the scene. May seem inconsequential..... But foreshadows future Brian activity.





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When Brian takes a definitive bite of the green apple, I believe he is sending a seductive message to the married client... Temptation, temptation, temptation.... And voila- Brian takes the client into his "Garden Of Eden" and sin is born in the series...

This is it, epcure88!!! It makes all the sense. Brian is the serpent who attracts his target into his power.






"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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When Brian takes a definitive bite of the green apple, I believe he is sending a seductive message to the married client... Temptation, temptation, temptation.... And voila- Brian takes the client into his "Garden Of Eden" and sin is born in the series...


I love how Brian makes everyone want him... male, female, "gay, straight, or undecided"! Gale/Brian is one of those people who just send out signals or pheremones or something, to make us mere mortals quiver in his presence!!! IMO, at any rate.

I also loved the split-screen phone call, between the guys at work. It's fun seeing them in their everyday environment, although it unfortunately died off shortly after. But, I do remember a few cool similar scenes as the series progressed.

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I love how Brian makes everyone want him... male, female, "gay, straight, or undecided"! Gale/Brian is one of those people who just send out signals or pheremones or something, to make us mere mortals quiver in his presence!!! IMO, at any rate.

Oh, he definetely makes everyone want him. The man is gorgeous and delicious!




"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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Responce to eoliver4 post July 1st 10:06:37


Appreciate the time taken to write your thoughts on this episode.



I actually preferred seeing "the boys" in their work environment. As for what they have in common, I would say that they simply enjoy each others company. Their different occupations are not really a dividing factor since their jobs are simply a way to make a living, not what defines them.

Don't understand the confusion about why Michael took Justin to Woody's. He was performing an act of kindness. It's as simple as that.

About Brian checking out himself in the mirror as out of character. I don't think so. Michael is the one that said "Who gives a #$%@. You're lucky to have me." Think Brian likes others to buy this attitude. But there are numerous examples in later eps. that show Brian cares a great deal what other people think.

Not sure if the trick at the end was truely unattractive, or it was just the hairstyle. But regardless, he gets points from me for his sympathetic treatment toward Justin.

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Don't understand the confusion about why Michael took Justin to Woody's. He was performing an act of kindness. It's as simple as that.

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I was more confused about why he acts like the gang (Brian especially) is somehow responsible for Justin. Ted and Emmett don't even know Justin yet and Michael's asking them what they are going to do with him. Michael has a weird obsession with Brian at this point, as well as his leftovers. I do like that he was nice enough to get the kid some food, break it down for him that Brian is a jerk, and make sure he got home all right. That was nice.

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Hey, dergil27! Thank you for your comments.

I actually preferred seeing "the boys" in their work environment. As for what they have in common, I would say that they simply enjoy each others company. Their different occupations are not really a dividing factor since their jobs are simply a way to make a living, not what defines them.

Yes, seeing their daily lives adds to our knowledge about them. But even the night before in Babylon it's possible to guess what they do for a living. Ted is so tight, he only could be in a boring/analytic occupation. Brian would probably be in a creative occupation, and so on.


Don't understand the confusion about why Michael took Justin to Woody's. He was performing an act of kindness. It's as simple as that.

I'm not so sure about that one. he was kind though.


Not sure if the trick at the end was truely unattractive, or it was just the hairstyle. But regardless, he gets points from me for his sympathetic treatment toward Justin.

Comparing to other Brian's tricks, that one is a little different. Maybe he is a bear style. But he was so kind to Justin that I don't care what he looks like.





"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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The second part of the pilot takes place not long after the end of pt1, and deals with the next 36 hours or so in all the pricipals lives. All of the male cast in their normal work environment during the day, and what they do for fun in the evening. Through this we learn more about the characters, and how they relate to each other as well as their surroundings.

Ted works in an office. He is bored with his job and spends what seems to be a lot of time on porn websites. It's not clear if he is "out" at work, but he seems to be keeping his head down. It's here that Ted'd crush on Michael is revealed due to a picture he keeps in his desk. This could explain some of his earlier attentiveness to Michael for anyone paying attention.

Don't really learn much about Emmett at this point. So far he works in a clothing store and is "out and proud" to everyone. Although Ted points out that due to Emmett being so obvious, he really might not have had a choice. Emmett dissagrees.

We learn a bit more about Michael. He works at a big department store along the lines of Kmart. He is not the boss, but he does have some authority as assistant manager. But he wants to move up in a workplace that secretly discriminates against gays, and openly tolerates jokes against them. So Michael, while out everywhere else, is extremely closeted at work. So much so that he allows himself to be coerced into a date with a female co-worker.

Michael is a very devoted friend to Brian, leaving an outing he was beginning to enjoy simply because Brian insisted on it. Then later, when Brian suddenly decides to take off, leaving Michael on the sidewalk, he is neither surprized nor angry. Brian tells a story of an interupted hand job he have Michael when they were teenagers. Justin speculates that this is why Michael puts up with Brian's crap. But while Michael would indeed like Brian to finish j*rking him off, as evidenced by his recreating the event later that night, there is more to Michael's friendship with Brian than that. And Michael's charitable nature is not exclusively for Brian. When Justin begins his campaign of stalking Brian as well as his friends, Michael takes it upon himself to take Justin out to eat and explain to him a little bit about Brian's aversion to romantic attachments. Since Michael's interest in Brian goes beyond the platonic, the fact that he would bother helping a potential rival such as Justin says a lot about Michael's sympathetic nature. Actually, I don't think Michael shows such good sense here.

Debbie is introduced in this episode. We don't learn much about her except that she is Michael's mother and is very proud of his being gay. Irritatingly so in fact. She works at a local diner so you already know she will be a fixture due to location alone.

Brian works at an advertizing agency. He is giving a presentation and flirting with everyone in the room. But he reserves more of his attention to a married man, who Brian has identified as a closet case. Later Brian has some memorable bathroom stall sex with the client. It's clear that they have both done this before. It's an entertaining scene, and further demonstates Brian's love of casual sexual encounters.

Brian's only close friends seem to be Lindsay and Michael, with Michael the closer of the two. But the relationship seems to be mostly as one sided, with Michael driving Brian home when he is unable, and Brian leaving Michael in the street when Brian comes across an exceptional trick he badly wants, or later wants to get away from. Brian is also shown expecting and getting Michael to drop whatever he is doing to be with Brian with no other explanation than "I need you.". Lindsay appears to be more into Brian than he is into her. She talks him into having a child with her presumabley due to his superior genes, and is way too misty eyed about their not half bad sexual history together. This is not lost on Melanie, Lindsay's lover/partner of many years. She is extremely hostile to Brian, even having the affrontery to push for a life insurance policy for Gus in case Brian should get sick. Not even trying to be subtle, Melanie elaborates on this, making digs at Brian's personal life.

Justin is at school, hanging out at the boys locker room and clandestingly enjoying the view. Later he brags to his friend Daphne about his first sex with Brian Kinney. In typical teenage fashion he overromantizes things. He goes to a private school and has a walkin closet at home. So Justin must be from a well off family. Which is why one wonders why Justin doesn't have "A little Beemer" of his own. His one night stand with Brian has left Justin wanting more and he takes steps to get it, hanging out at places Brian might frequent in order to see him again. His efforts are rewarded when Brian and Justin both end up at a local bar. Brian soon leaves, but Justin is persistent, making motions to tail Brian's friends. Even after Michael takes pity on him and tells Justin about Brian's no boyfriend policy, Justin soldiers on, actually making an surprize visit to the man himself. Here Brian himself tells the boy that their one night fling was just that. Justin is finally dissuaded, at least for the night.



..........Favorite Scenes..........


The opening scene with the split screen showing Michal, Ted, and Emmett all at work while talking together on the phone. It is so seldom that we are reminded that most people spend a good deal of their time at a mundane job to support themselves. The connecting scene shows that even Brian has to work, although his job has a few extra perks.


Brian helping "to please the client" after the presentation. It's a short but fun sex scene, and very well done, especially the not so subtle overtures that led up to it.

The scene with Ted, Michael and Emmett together working out and talking at the gym. Admire Emmett's ability to hold simultaneous conversations over the lack of quality tops and Michael's closeted status. Or maybe I just like anything where these three get together and talk.

Justin's slo-mo spying on the nude and semi-nude boys. It's clear that they haven't a clue how they are being admired.

Michael recreating the unfinished hand job in his old room. The show might be trying to hard with the strange lighting and blowing curtains, but I like it anyway. Was a little annoyed at having Harold and Sparks play themselves at fourteen yet looking almost the same as they do today. But the mood, the lighting, the music and the semi-comical ending made up for it.



........Other things of note......


About the man who asked Michael where the jokey shorts were. Not totally sure about this, but believe that he and Michael get to know each other a bit better
later in the series.

Ted has some of the best lines in the episode. His humor is something you learn to appreciate more with repeated viewings.


One of the as of now unknown football players Justin is watching will be a big factor in the first season and beyond. But for those watching qaf for the first time, he may be slipping in unnoticed.

During the sex scene with the client, Brian pulls the man's belt completly out. This is highly unlikely, but it gives such an interesting visual and audible effect that you don't care. At least two more belts will be pulled out in this fashion, and they will be used to even greater effect.



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Debbie is introduced in this episode. We don't learn much about her except that she is Michael's mother and is very proud of his being gay. Irritatingly so in fact. She works at a local diner so you already know she will be a fixture due to location alone.


I really liked the first scene with Debbie, and it's funny, but I think Sharon and Hal kind of look like they could be mother and son here!!! I think Michael was being kind to Justin, but I also think he was kind of 'marking his territory' by giving Justin the lowdown on Brian and his non-relationship habits.

Also, Cynthia!!!! I love Cynthia's character, and I like that Brian looked out for her and eventually brought her along with him as his assistant. She seems like someone I'd love to hang out with after work, having drinks, and snarking on everyone!

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I love Cynthia's character, and I like that Brian looked out for her and eventually brought her along with him as his assistant. She seems like someone I'd love to hang out with after work, having drinks, and snarking on everyone!

I love her too. However, if I was the assistant of a hunk like Brian, I would certainly fall in love with him! And he certainly would fire my a$$!






"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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I love her too. However, if I was the assistant of a hunk like Brian, I would certainly fall in love with him! And he certainly would fire my a$$! []



Likewise.

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Great review, dergil!

Ted works in an office. He is bored with his job and spends what seems to be a lot of time on porn websites. It's not clear if he is "out" at work, but he seems to be keeping his head down.

I think he is not out at work. Just like Michael.

Don't really learn much about Emmett at this point. So far he works in a clothing store and is "out and proud" to everyone.

And I think Ted and Emmett are not best friends at this point. Their friendship seems to get stronger mid-season.

When Justin begins his campaign of stalking Brian as well as his friends, Michael takes it upon himself to take Justin out to eat and explain to him a little bit about Brian's aversion to romantic attachments.

Considering that this is probably not the first time a Brian's trick pursues him, I wonder if Michael always does that, i.e. takes the time to explain to the trick why it's not a good idea to fall in love with Brian.


But he reserves more of his attention to a married man, who Brian has identified as a closet case.

I ask myself how Brian has the power to find out that someone is gay. He always seems to know.

Brian is also shown expecting and getting Michael to drop whatever he is doing to be with Brian with no other explanation than "I need you."

And Michael goes every single time. I agree with Deb that Michael needs to live a life of his own.

This is not lost on Melanie, Lindsay's lover/partner of many years. She is extremely hostile to Brian, even having the affrontery to push for a life insurance policy for Gus in case Brian should get sick. Not even trying to be subtle, Melanie elaborates on this, making digs at Brian's personal life.

I hated Melanie in Season 1. She's always so angry and obnoxious. She gets better at the end of the season.

So Justin must be from a well off family. Which is why one wonders why Justin doesn't have "A little Beemer" of his own.

What's a Beemer? A slang for car?

Was a little annoyed at having Harold and Sparks play themselves at fourteen yet looking almost the same as they do today.

I've always wondered about that too. Couldn't the producers use real 14 year-olds?



"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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Thank you eoliver-4,

The way Michael says "We can't just leave him here", or something to that effect, makes it sound like this is not a regular occurance with Brian's former tricks. So I don't think "educating" Brian's one night stands is a regular routine for him.

Beemer is a slang term for a BMW.

It's actually not that unusual, even today, for much older actors to play teenagers. But fourteen is very young. So I agree that actual teenagers should have been used.

The other problem was, no matter how baby faced an actor is, he will not look the same way he did when he was actually a teenager. When the scene started, we only saw extreme closeups of Sparks and Harold that were so vague they could have been any age. Had they continued with that, not letting us get a real good full-on view of either of them, it might have worked. But instead the camera pulled back and we can clearly see thirty year old men wearing out of fashion clothing styles.

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The way Michael says "We can't just leave him here", or something to that effect, makes it sound like this is not a regular occurance with Brian's former tricks. So I don't think "educating" Brian's one night stands is a regular routine for him.

Good point. But I can't help but wonder if Michael noticed that Justin could be different from the other tricks.

Beemer is a slang term for a BMW.

Thank you! I would have never guessed that one!

But instead the camera pulled back and we can clearly see thirty year old men wearing out of fashion clothing styles.

In 104, justin is in Michael's old bedroom looking at old pictures of Michael and Brian, and if I'm not mistaken, the pictures (which were supposed to be as them as teenagers) are of fully grown up men.




"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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Don't think Michael considered Justin different from the others at the diner. But do believe he probably did by the end of ep 103.

The pictures using Harold and Sparks to represent themselves as teenagers shows consistency in the show's questionable casting choices. Perhaps they realized this themselves as the next time teenaged Michael and Brian were needed, they cast actual teenagers.

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Old at 30???? No, no, no, J_B_Grimaldo-Esq! Like you, I was a little uncomfortable too, being Justin so young. At least he's old enough to have sex in Pensilvannia, which consenting age is 17. Anyway, wrong as it might seem, it happens all the time, with gay or straight teens.





"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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Responce to JB Grimaldi 17:45:29,

Never did understand why anyone over the age of twenty would be interested in a teenager. This is not the age where you are usually at your most physically attractive, especially boys. And the mindset of an adolescent is completely different from someone only a few years older.

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Justin is still a brat at this point, but even so, he is more intelligent than your average teenager. I think what attracts Brian is his wholesomeness, a certain innocence, a breath of fresh air.



"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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Never got the idea that Brian was all that into wholesome or innocent. Always seemed like he preferred the opposite. But this is more of a feeling rather than something that can be backed up with any proof.

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I don't think Brian is into wholesome and innocent, except for Justin, who is unique! At least this is not the type he pursues when goes tricking and clubbing.




"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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See e-oliver, I don't think Justin is wholesome or innocent at all. It's a facade, much like how Brian wears one. On the outside Justin is sweet and sunshine, but on the inside he can be quite manipulative. But he also never gives up, is tenacious, and confident. I think that's why Brian ended up attracted to him in spite of himself. If Justin had been any different I doubt Brian would have given him a second glance beyond the first night.

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On the outside Justin is sweet and sunshine, but on the inside he can be quite manipulative.[...] I think that's why Brian ended up attracted to him in spite of himself.

Absolutely. The Stockwell campaign comes to mind and much of season 1. Also when Justin "convinced" Brian to donate his very expensive couch to the hospice

But I also agree with eoliver that Justin isn't Brian's "usual" type, at least physically and age-wise.

Brianwashed!

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Innocent because of his age and cheerful trusting disposition, besides being manipulative (even two year olds are). But I agree that he was not only that, he had many other qualities that brian liked. If he hadn't been insistente, he would never have won Brian over.






"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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Believe Brian and Justin became a couple almost completely due to Justin's efforts. With a little bit of luck or circumstance thrown in.

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Believe Brian and Justin became a couple almost completely due to Justin's efforts. With a little bit of luck or circumstance thrown in.

I agree, plus the help of Lindsay, Debbie and even Justin's mom.

Brianwashed!

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Totally agree!




"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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"If Justin wants golden gardenias, he should have golden gardenias!" Brian Kinney [love9]

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The scene where Brian did that married guy ruined his character for me. I find it men who have wives and kids cheating with other men- it's gross. I would NEVER sleep with a married man. I was cool with his character till he did that, after that i thought he was okay, but that was always in the back of my head. I mean, he is continuing this stereotype of Gay men stealing people's husbands and the whole "Down-low" thing.

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Being in the closet is one thing- nobody else is getting hurt. but when you have a wife and kids- more then just you are being affected.

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Thanks for commenting, mhenderson22! 

Well, Brian is not known for his respect for marriage and monogamy institutions.

In my opinion, if there's someone who has to worry about the sanctity of marriage is married people. I know married couples who have their own agreement about what is considered appropriate or not in their marriage (and that may include sex with other people; a couple's marriage is no one else's business). No one is forced to have gay or straight extra-marital sex; if someone does it, it's because he or she wants to.

I didn't know there was a stereotype about gay men "stealing" women's husbands. However, if that happens, it means that the husband is homosexual or bisexual; if he weren't, he wouldn't get involved with another man. He was probably not forced into the affair. I don't think the gay man should be blamed.

About sleeping with married men, sometimes you just don't know, the guy may be lying. I agree that if you're looking for someone to get married, you shouldn't get involved with married men, of course. But there are people who are not concerned with a person's marital status when it's only a one-night stand.

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I've never heard of gay men stealing women's husbands, let alone it being a stereotype.

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It takes TWO people to cheat- not one. Also, Brian was informed that the guy was married with two kids. I judged him based on my standards and i think sleeping with married men is nothing but disgusting- Thus one who takes part in the act full and well knowing is someone i don't like. I understand Brian's values, but i don't agree with them. I judge a person based on what i think is right our wrong- i assume most people do.
-There is a down-low stereotype, deriving in the black community. And of women feeling that gay men are stealing their men from them. but that most of that has to do with the other guy. The part of sleeping with the married man is what bothered me.

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As I see it, only ONE person does the cheating (the married person). Only ONE person is cheated on: the married person whose husband/wife is doing the cheating. The third party is not cheating (unless he/she is also married and is cheating on his/her wife/husband). If the third party is single and free, he/she is not cheating on anyone.

And again, only there's cheating if the couple agrees to be monogamous. There are non monogamous arrangements. There are polyamorous relationships and open relationships.

I think it's a matter of point of view. Right and wrong are relative concepts, different meaning for different people. Cheating is also relative. In Brian's case, if that married guy has a monogamy agreement with his wife (which we don't know) he's the one cheating on her. Brian is not cheating on anyone. Along the series, Brian has no monogamy agreement with anyone. In fact, in season 2 Brian and Justin establish the rules for their relationship. They agree that each one could have sex with anyone they wanted, but could not kiss. So, in their case, kissing was the cheating factor, not the sex. Couples have different agreements and expectations about their relationship and should not be judged for acting different from social norms, in my opinion.

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I totally agree with Golden Gardenia's stance on this issue and I believe it all depends on one's own perceptions and understandings. It's true that there are a few universal constants about right and wrong (like murder) but other socially constructed stances can be debated and what might seem right to some will seem wrong to others.
To me, marriage itself doesn't make any sense and I have no respect for it. Plus, Brian or anyone in his position is not to blame if the other person shows interest or can't resist the temptation (he's a grown man and fully responsible for his own actions).

As we see later, in episode 5 I think, Brian makes the moral decision of not sleeping with a man who neglects his responsibility toward his child, which to me proves that he only disrespects the contract of marriage but isn't an immoral person overall.

Brianwashed!

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I don't know about the stas, but open relationships (even marriages) are becoming more and more popular in Brazil, especially among younger generations. I was totally shocked when I learned that a younger girl friend of mine is involved in multiple open relationships. I never could imagine! I think most people who are in multiple relationships don't tell their friends and family. They are closeted about it.

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Think partially blaming the other person is actually a desire to shift some of the blame away from the cheating partner. And if there really are women out there who think that gay men are converting their boyfriends to homosexuality, then they have more problems than a straying man to contend with.

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BOTH share equal blame- Just because you are not cheating on someone, you are still taking part in the affair. Unattached or not, It takes two people to have sex- not one. Both know full well of the marital status. The married guy may be more wrong, but the other party is still wrong for engaging in that kind of activity.

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Wouldn't consider the other man or woman completely blameless, but to consider them equally as guilty as the married partner is just not computing.

Getting back to Brian, he won't even admit that the man he's living with is in a relationship. So there's very little chance Brian would become any sort of home wrecker.

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Well, That is my opinion on the matter- that him engaging in that made me dislike him for the rest of the season. My opinion is certainly going to be different for yours. I think we will just have to agree to disagree.

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