MovieChat Forums > Queer as Folk (2000) Discussion > QAF Marathon Season 1 episode 7

QAF Marathon Season 1 episode 7


Sorry to e-oliver, but I know she's busy, and I really have an itch to talk about this episode and especially the next one, so I thought I'd take the initiative and get the ball rolling. Hope I'm not stepping on any toes.

We open with Justin and Daphne at a piercing parlor so that Justin can get his nipple pierced. Apparently all of this is to get Brian to notice him more...okay.

Ouch! I cannot watch the piercing. Makes me cringe. Justin looks delighted with himself.

Next we have Michael and David at the Diner. Michael introduces Debbie to David and Debbie promptly invites him to dinner. Fun times.

Craig is in massive denial about Justin's sexuality, saying the drawings of naked men were for art class and the underwear was a pair he bought for himself several sizes too large. Jennifer on the other hand has had several episodes to come to terms with this news and rebuffs all of Craig's explanations. Jennifer lets Craig know that Justin is seeing someone - an older man named Brian.

The boys are at Woody's playing pool. They're all talking about Michael having a boyfriend when Justin shows up with the intent of impressing Brian with his nipple ring. Brian can act like he's not turned on all he wants, but the next scene of them screwing hand in hand intercut with Craig perusing Justin's room for "evidence" says otherwise.

Brian arrives at Michael and Emmett's just as Michael is preparing to have dinner with David at his mom's. The way Emmett snarks at Brian is the way I see myself, if I were ever faced with a character/personality like Brian's, behaving. I can enjoy him as a character, but in real life, I would so NOT be impressed and throwing massive shade and snark at him. I'd be like Emmett: off on the sidelines wondering what the hell is this dude's appeal and telling him to have several seats.

Back in suburbia...Justin yells at Jennifer that she broke her promise and told Craig that he's gay. Jennifer says she told only after she saw that he was sleeping with Brian. I have to agree with Jennifer on this one. I love B/J, but this relationship, gay or straight, is inappropriate. I blame Brian for the bulk of it because he's the adult in this situation and continues to sleep with Justin even when he says he wants him gone.

David doesn't know the plot of Lady and the Tramp? Really, show? Anyway, David invites Michael away for a romantic trip in the woods.

Brian is cruising for fcks on the internet. The epitome of desperate. Anywho, Michael comes over and just has to have Brian's approval about his trip with David. Lawd this season 1 dependency. Brian's dumbass picks up his phone and starts rattling off about dildos without even verifying that it's the trick. It's not. It's Craig who probably thinks Brian thinks he's talking to Justin. Either way, not a good first impression.

Temmett help Michael play hooky from work, while Brian writes Lindsay a check and explains the obvious to him that most people don't want to grow old alone. Then again the concept of growing old at all is lost on Brian, so all of this is irrelevant.

Blah, blah, blah, Cabin in the woods.

Studs in Suds - I love Emmett. And Ted for that matter for spilling the truth tea about Brian and his audience of one: Michael. Brian purposely dangles himself in front of Michael like he's a mouse and Michael is a starving cat.

Brian gets rammed (not like that!) by Justin's father who at the time he thinks is the trick he just insulted.

Cut to the woods. ICK. Michael post-coital calls Brian the first chance he gets. *sigh*. This relationship is creepy. Brian is manipulative, but no one forced Michael back. Brian said he was fine. Sheesh.

Justin couldn't care less about his father's car. Heh. I love this kid in season 1 so much. I hate that the bashing knocked all of his confidence and sass out of him.

Everyone's at Brian's. Really though, Brian did NOT tell Michael to come back. That is on Michael. Melanie is so annoying here sticking her nose where it doesn't belong. Are she and Michael even that close or does she just like bashing Brian wherever she can?

Babylon - David tells Brian he's gonna fight for Michael. Whatever.

End show.


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Love it, Moonprincess! I can tell you're not a Michael fan, nor a Michael/David fan. I liked Mikey's character a lot in the beginning, but upon multiple viewings, his annoying habits and neediness made me like him a lot less. I know he's got that 'cute boy next door' thing going on, as he mentioned in the Pilot, but his low self-esteem is annoying here, especially for someone who has Debbie for a mom! She’s the type to always sing her child’s praises, boost their confidence, and actually raise her kid’s self-esteem. And as the show has shown, Mikey can get some when he wants it. I don't think he really lacked for tricks in his single days. We didn’t see to much of it, though, since he was mostly in a couple throughout the run of the show.

I guess the self-esteem thing mostly manifested itself around Brian. It was so obvious from the get-go that Brian hated Dr. David. I can't blame him, although I didn't agree with his reasons (jealousy, not wanting Mikey in that way, but wanting to keep him close, etc.). David wanted a cute, young boy-toy, whom he could impress with his cabin in the country (which he built himself, no less!), his love of wine and good food (let's face it, Michael still holds a spoon like a toddler!), and his more mature, sophisticated ways. I’m sure he thought of himself as ‘molding’ Michael, but it was really more of a control thing.

And yes, Michael definitely read into Brian’s distress when he called home, and came running even though Brian told him not to (although, he didn’t protest *that* much!). I really don’t blame David for being pisssed off here.

Anyhoo… Justin’s family trials and tribulations. I loved Jennifer from the beginning, and for all of Cow-Lip’s bashing of ‘breeders’, they sure did a great job portraying the straight women on this show. Jen, Daphne, Cynthia, and of course Deb. It’s great that Jennifer needed to show Justin that she’d always be there for him, and ended up kicking that bastard Craig to the curb. I guess Justin got some of his spunk from his mother. He’s just so friggin’ cute in these early episodes!

Love Emmett and Ted, as usual! I love how they aren’t always worshipping at the shrine of Brian, like just about everyone else on the planet. I’ll admit, I came to this show because of the gorgeous Gale Harold, and I’m as enamored of Brian as anyone, but I like that those two don’t pander to him at all. Emmett especially just doesn’t seem to care! He’s so fab.

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Hi Katrina!

Actually I like Michael all right. I did not the first several times I watched the show, but he's grown on me and he's really no more offensive than any other of the characters. Eh. It's really David/Michael I do not like, but that's understandable. I mean, do they have fans?

I love Brian too (sometimes), but I love that Emmett gives no fcks where Brian is concerned.

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Hi, moonprincess! Thank you very much for starting the discussion for this episode. I have been extremely busy for the past few weeks, I had no time to watch, review or comment any episode. Thank you for helping me to keep this Marathon alive. You are welcome to co-moderate the Marathon with me, whenever you can. As soon as I can I'll check out your review and all the others, i'm very late with my homework!


"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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BUMP!

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If Justin wants golden gardenias, he should have golden gardenias! Brian Kinney

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If Justin wants golden gardenias, he should have golden gardenias! Brian Kinney

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If Justin wants golden gardenias, he should have golden gardenias! Brian Kinney

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(let's face it, Michael still holds a spoon like a toddler!)

He does. He was bound to be impressed by David's sophistication. Well, I must confess that David is my type of man. Cultured, intelligent, successful, I loved David until Episode 18. From there on I started hating him for being a hypocryte.


And yes, Michael definitely read into Brian’s distress when he called home, and came running even though Brian told him not to (although, he didn’t protest *that* much!).

Brian was totally manipulative. He said Michael shouldn't come, but he wanted him to come.At least he wanted to test Michae's care for him.




"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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Thank you, moonprincess, for starting a new episode discussion. I'm sure eoliver wouldn't mind.

Really though, Brian did NOT tell Michael to come back. That is on Michael.

I used to only blame Michael for his dependency on Brian and, partly, I still feel that Brian's behavior toward David was because he knew he wasn't a good partner for Michael but I'm not too sure anymore (some posters here are too darn convincing!)
But even though Brian told Michael not to come back, he knew he would. But yeah, it annoys me how everyone blames Brian and just feels sorry for Michael.

I blame Brian for the bulk of it because he's the adult in this situation and continues to sleep with Justin even when he says he wants him gone.

That's my main disagreement with probably every fan of the show and the characters. Everyone (fans and characters) blames Brian for leaving Justin AND for keeping him at the same time! In my opinion, Brian didn't really have a choice. I love that Brian couldn't resist Justin much, but the fact is, it was all Justin's doing: he wanted Brian, even after Brian specifically told him that he was just a fvck and that he didn't do boyfriends. Justin kept showing up around Brian's friends, at Woody's, at Babylon... with the sole purpose of getting Brian to sleep with him again and again, enlisting Brian's friends to help him.

Justin couldn't care less about his father's car. Heh. I love this kid in season 1 so much. I hate that the bashing knocked all of his confidence and sass out of him.

I agree, though he does show huge confidence in season 3, he had lost that "sassiness"

Are she and Michael even that close or does she just like bashing Brian wherever she can?

She definitely just likes to bash Brian whenever she can , though I don't really blame her.


Brianwashed!

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Moonprincess,

Good recap/review for this episode. Like that all characters are mentioned as well.

Agree about Brian's obvious interest in Justin. But think Brian was honest about not being impressed with Justin's piercing. What happened later was probably in spite of, rather than because of, Justin's new jewelry.

Also like Emmett's refusal to worship Brian Kinney. This is, in my opinion, Emmett's best character trait. Ted also calls Brian out in these early episodes. But with Ted, this may be fueled by his fondness for Michael.

Don't know if David knows the plot of "Lady and the Tramp", or not. But I sure don't. So the show is not being all that off base.

And Brian absolutely manipulated Michael to come back. Brian didn't need to tell Michael he was even in an accident. Yet Brian not only does this, but also mentions his concussion. And most telling of all, Brian tells Michael not to even think of cutting his trip short and coming back there. Therefor putting the idea in his head in case there was the slightest posibility that Michael hadn't thought of returning on his own.

Think Melanie talking to David outside of Brian's place might be an attempt to make ammends for what she said at the art show.

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............Thoughts on ep 107 pt1


............main points






In this episode we get yet another take on a parent dealing with the discovery that their child is gay. Now it's the turn of Craig, Justin's father. Find it most irritating that he discovers the truth due to Jennifer breaking her promise to Justin not to tell. She uses concern about Brian as her reason/excuse. But while her concerns over Brian may be warrented, Craig really does need to know, and Justin doesn't seem all that upset, I still found Jennifer going back on her word very bothersome.

What follows is a semi comic situation in which Craig is presented with a litany of evidence pointing to Justin's preference for men. Countered by some often absurd rationalizations by Craig meant to prove it isn't so. This isn't just regular denial, it's the steadfast refusal to believe taken to a whole new degree. But eventually even Craig's stubborn resolve is broken. And when he unhappily sees the truth, his methods of dealing with the situation leave much to be desired. There are some funny moments, such as Craig's reaction when Justin overshares about his and Brian's condom usage. And the one way phone conversation wherein Craig learns all about Brian's new dildo. But Craig's later actions, including ramming Brian's jeep and threatening Justin with boarding school, are far less amusing.

The Craig scenario is infuriating and unfortunate all around. And Justin's "I'll do as I please" smart ass attitude, and the accidental phone conversation certainly made things worse. But Craig probably wouldn't have taken such news well regardless. Like that this story shows the darker side of coming out to one's parents. We've seen the easy embrace of one son's orientation in Debbie, the grudging acceptance of Jennifer, and now the outright hostility of Craig.





The love/other triangle that is Brian, Michael, and David comes into full flower in this episode. After well over a decade of Michael's unbridled devotion, Brian finally has some competition for his friend's attention. And Brian doesn't like it at all.

Michael and David: It's common for those involved in a new romance to put their regular friends and family temporarily on the backburner in regard to attention and time. Yet even at this supposed "honeymoon" stage, Michael still can't stop talking about Brian. Can't help but feel sympathy for David. But at the same time you can't help but wonder why he is still tolerating this. And one has to give David credit for not giving up easily. He eagerly agrees to dinner with the family and makes great headway with Debbie and Vic. I was put off with the way both of them appeared to be won over more by David's money than anything else. But still loved the way these siblings work together. Especially liked their look of expectancy and refreshing lack of coyness, when they wanted to know David's make of car and his cash flow. David makes even more progress with Michael, persuading him to come away for the weekend. Michael even cancels some previous plans with Brian to do this. This is a huge deal.

David and Michael's weekend trip nets some informative items. David's penchant of challenging projects is on display in the cabin they will sleep in, built by David himself, a sportfishing trophy, and relics of a failed attempt at heterosexuality . Another thing that is made very clear is that this relationship is not a joining of equals, but more of a protege/ mentor type of situation, with the added bonus of a shared bedroom. It might be going too far to suggest that Michael might be another one of David'd projects, then again.....

At any rate, David may be making progress but Brian is still on Michael's mind, and eventually he can't resist giving him a call. This is all that's needed to bring David's efforts at being first in Michael's world to a halt. So the pair rush back to Brian at Michael's insistence to find it was a false alarm. David appears ready to throw in the towel at this point. But Melanie, probably guilty about her contribution to the problems between this couple, suggests that David fight for Michael. This is Melanie's sole contribution in this episode, (though it's quite enough of her for me), and it's important. Mel's intervention may have been the only thing that kept David and Michael together. Whether that itself is a good thing is a matter of opinion.


Michael and Brian: Unable to deal with no longer being the only man in Michael's life, Brian continues in his efforts to undermine the romance. He tries to pull Michael back by again telling him how hot he is. And again Michael doesn't believe him. Strange how Brian has managed to convince Michael that he may have a chance at romance with him, but can't persuade him to believe he is attractive, or even has much self worth. But still Brian says he's happy for Michael, while once again mentioning the age difference and pointing out how little Michael and David have in common.

Everyone, save Brian and the uninvolved Justin, are pulling for this pairing. But for whatever reason, Brian keeps up the pretense that he wants it to work. And he continues to profess this support to Lindsay, as she hits Brian up for a large sum of money. To anyone new to the series, get used to this. Mel and Linds will have their hands out to Brian for the duration. But it is a nice touch that Lindsay calls Brian on his insincerity. However the best thing about this scene is how fabulous Brian looks in that red shirt and tie.

But Brian's efforts are all for naught as Michael makes the apparently unprecedented move of cancelling a night with Brian in favor of an outing with David. When Michael tells Brian, the extra long pause shows his profound dissapointment. Don't usually have a lot of sympathy for Brian, but felt very bad for him here. His fear of losing Michael is almost pathological. At "Studs n suds" without Michael, Brian is clearly miserable. And the needling by Ted with his snide but on the money remarks is not helping. But despite Brian's unhappiness, this is an intertaining scene. It's always fun to hear Ted's snarky and all too accurate accounts about Brian as well as himself. And Emmett is having so much fun in the bubbles it's contagious, even getting a laugh from the foul humored Mr. Kinney. Love how Emmett seems able to enjoy himself , not just at party atmospheres like Babylon, but also at everyday mundane activities.

It is chance and circumstance that finally give Brian what he needs to lure Michael back. It comes in the form of a head injury curtesy of an irate Craige. Have to say, Brian does show some restraint here. He doesn't call Michael or even tell him straight away about his concussion. But in the end, Brian just couldn't help himself. And when Michael walks through the doorway of the not so hurt Brian's loft, Brian doesn't even pretend to be surprized.

We arent told if David is Michael's first serious suiter or just the most tenacious of many who came before. But Lindsay warning Brian not to screw things up for Michael, hints that this might not be the first time Brian has meddled in his friend's love life. Actually, Brian feeding into Michael's hope of a relationship with him is in itself a form of interference. As is Brian taking all "the lucky ones" when he and Michael meet men together. How many potential boyfriends did Michal pass up because he was holding out to have Brian as a lover? How many men who passed up Michael for Brian's physical charms might have developed into more than just that night's trick? Again, we arent told. But it's almost certain that had any man been interested in Michael, Brian would have done his best to get rid of him.



Brian and David: Brian and David have another round of hostile, contentious, yet intertaining dialog. These two have very little screentime together,but the brief exchanges they do have are once again the most fun and exciting of the episode. Brian shows up at Michael's, supposedly forgetting his plans with David. But instead of leaving, Brian makes sure he is the first person David sees when he comes for Michael. But David once again proves a match for Brian. And when Brian begins to speak, David replies with a dismissive "Really", hardly glancing at Brian, And proceeds to greet Emmett. This is a little bit brilliant. David has stifled whatever Brian planned to say while cutting him dead at the same time. But Brian doesn't stay quiet for long and tries again with an "allergic to boyfriends" comment. Here, David simply refuses to acknowledge the statement. A less clever but equally effective way to neutralize Michael's threatened friend. No matter how one feels about David, you have to admire the way he bests Brian here.

When David and Brian talk for a second time, they set aside the verbal one upmanship as David puts into words what viewers already know. David can often be clueless to the point of being dillusional. But here he is in complete understanding of why Michael is so hesitant to let another man in his life. I like that David also has no illusion as to his own lack importance to Michael at this point. In the end, David actually asks Brian to let Michael have his own life. Yet David isn't very concillatory even when admitting Brian's power over his best friend and pleading for his release. The conversation ends with Brian and David starring each other down in a very long face off. I love how much these two hate each other.


...........end pt1

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Justin kept showing up around Brian's friends, at Woody's, at Babylon... with the sole purpose of getting Brian to sleep with him again and again, enlisting Brian's friends to help him.


Totally agree with this.

If Justin had just given up, Brian would never have pursued him. It wasn't who he was. Justin would have been just another one of Brian's one-time tricks, and that would have been the end of it. Lucky for us, Sunshine is confident, fearless (at least S1 Justin, at any rate), and doesn't take no for an answer!

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thoughts on ep107 pt2






.....................favorite/notable scenes...............





This scene switches back and forth between Craig looking around Justin's room and Brian and Justin having sex on Brian's bed. As in a previous split action scene, the music fits the mood of both settings. But here the selection is only servicable, accompanying rather than enhancing the visuals. Ordinarily, this would be enough, but some of us hold qaf to a higher standard , perhaps unfairly.

The scenes with Brian and Justin are pretty hot. But they would be a lot hotter if you didn't have to view almost all of the action through the window blinds and/or reflections. At various points the view is also obstructed by a windowsill, two different vases, and most irritating of all, a lampshade AND the lampshade's reflection simultaneously. All the body against body longshots are shown this way except for one quick unhindered view at the very end. Not sure what the point of all this voyeurlike camerawork was. Perhaps to do something different, or an attempt to make sex more pleasing to the eye. And it is a terrific visual, with the blue lighting and the peek a boo view. However, philistine/softcore porn fan that I am, I'd have preferrred a straight on, full view love scene. But perhaps this is being greedy because the full view close up shots of Justin against the bed with Brian close behind are both very intimate and highy erotic. At the point where the two interlock fingers, it's downright romantic.

Unfortunately, the camera frequently cuts away from Brian and Justin to the sight of Craig investigating Justin's room for evidence of "gayness". There's not much to recommend the Craig contributions. But there is some cleverness to the opening shot with Craig appearing in Justin's doorway, followed by a slow pan of the room, and continuing with Craig again intering the frame from the right side of the screen. Also like the shot where sounds of Brian and Justin's lovemaking bleed into the scene of Craig's investigation. Realize what was going on with Craig was important to the story. But the sight of someone's dad eyeing nude drawings can't possibly compete with spying on actual nude bodies in action.

Despite constant interruptions by Craig and getting only a peeping tom's eye view, in the bedroom with Brian and Justin is one sexy scene. And even though that lampshade was really, really annoying,( downright infuriating actually), it's one of my favorite sex scenes of the series.







David and Michael reinacting the "Lady and the Tramp" spaghetti scene is not one of my favorites, but it gets a lot of attention and some fans like it. Do like the setting with the homey feel of Deb's kitchen and all the reds and yellows. But the whole thing feels orchestrated by Debbie. With all the talk about the scene, what else was David going to do? See this as an early example of Debbie pushing Michal and David together. Did like the way this was filmed, starting with a frontal view where the two kiss, then a back view where they part and we see Debbie's pleased face. This is only fitting as she seems more into David and Michael than David and Michael are. The whole thing feels so forced and awkward. But it was forced so perhaps it was awkward on purpose.






The ending scene where David confronts Brian in Babylon is an important development in the the season's plotlines. It's also pretty nice to look at. Babylon is always a visual treat. But tonight the eye candy quotient is on overload with blue lazer lights everywhere, multi-colored pulsing lights, and
fast sweeping camera shots. There also seems to be a few more shots of the go go boys than usual. My favorites are the ones with sailor hats and matching tight white shorts. Even the music is set at a faster tempo than normal.

Really like the way the players are introduced here. The first recognizable people are Ted and Emmett, Brian appears by rising up from the bottom of the frame in front of Ted and Emmett, instantly changing the pair from the focus to the background. The action then moves to the right, where Michael awaits. This all appears to be done in one shot with no dramatic changes in camera focusing and it's over in a flash, but it's another example of the work and imagination that is put into this program.

Find David's outfit disturbing. He hasn't been around long, but this gear just doesn't seem like something he would wear. Maybe he's just trying too hard to fit in. The fitting in theory gets some support by the way David helps himself to Brian's drugs. But this could also be David invading Brian's personal space in some sort of mini powerplay. And given the circumstances, this is the more likely explanation.

Michael only says one word in the entire scene, but his face conveys his every emotion. From the look of adoration while sharing drugs with Brian, to confusion when David goes off with his best friend, or despondancy when he apparently fears David wants Brian, Michael's feelings are broadcast in his face with no uncertainty. In the shot where Emmett puts a comforting arm around him, Michael's distress is so clear it could be read across the entirety of the dance floor. No one pulls a sad face like Michael Novotny. But it's both sad and funny that Michael actually seems to fear that Brian is stealing David away from him. Michael knows David and Brian don't like each other, but lack of confidence and the high probability that Brian has taken men from him before, has him fretting.

When David and Brian face each other it's close, combative and unyielding, with neither man about to give in to the other on any level. Such deadlocked defensive posturing shows just how determened these rivals are. And as I've said before, it's great to see two strong willed men go up against each other. Not to mention what a rare treat it is to see someone seriously challenge Brian Kinney.

Enjoy not just the content of this confrontation but the look of it as well. The club lights are constantly flashing on the faces of the adversaries, always red for David, almost always blue for Brian. Not sure if this is supposed to demonstrate something about each man or it's just an interesting effect. Either way it's a total commitment, with David in red and Brian in blue profile up to the very end, as the two continue to face each other in challenge. As we leave, they still stand there unmoving, as the dancing goes on around them.




.........................other things of note.......................





While Ted is explaining "Studs n suds" to Justin, Michael and Brian exchange a look. Not sure what it's about, but suspect it was a warning by Michael that Justin had better not be there and a confirmation from Brian. Might be totally wrong about this but Justin isn't at Babylon that night.


Emmett's refusal to worship at the alter of Brian Kinney continues to impress. Love how supportive he is of Michael against Brian's manipulations.


Brian's blink and you'll miss it performance with an eclair is worth a second look.


Why on earth does Lindsay need two thousand dollars for a near newborn? Mel and Linds are two professional women, yet they are constantly going to Brian for money. And Melanie doesn't even have the decency to be gracious about it. There are families out there who manage, admittedly not comfortably, to raise children on one or two minimum wage paychecks. Yet this pair of salaried women, one of them a lawyer, still need to go begging to Brian. It's disgraceful, and frankly, not very believable.


David stating that he's "comfortable", when asked about his finances is very much what a person in his position would say. In the U.S. almost no one will ever admit to being rich or even having a lot of money. Those with a six figure income say they aren't rich because they still work for a living. People with bigger incomes and a recreational job or no job at all are not rich because they only own one home, even if this home is worth several million. Those with more than one home are not rich because they have less than a million in liquid assets. Anyone that does have said assets isn't rich because they only have a million, and so on. Maybe it's to deflect possible envy or an attempt to create the illusion of egalitarianism, but very few well heeled Americans will ever refer to themselves with the dreaded R word.

Like season one Ted's verbal jabs at Brian. He delivers some excellent and clever lines at the expense of Mr. Kinney. But unlike the case with Emmett, Ted's cander seems to come less from lack of Brian worship and more for defence of Michael.


Justin definitly has big problems dealing with homophobic classmates at school and a completely irrational father at home. But he makes his bad situation worse with his general attitude and smart remarks. Telling his father how he can "take it like a man" would get him a belt in the face from parents of far milder temperment than Craig.


It's a bit of an eyebrow raiser to see Brian making an attempt to keep up with David's dancing.


It is very brief, largely hidden by wildflowers, and not very well choreographed. But David and Michael in the woods is the first sex/nude scene of any regular male cast members outside of Justin and Brian.


Brian has never been in a romantic relationship, nor does he have any interest in being in one. He also makes no secret about his dislike of David. In fact, it would be difficult to find someone among this group less qualified to weigh in on David and Michael's romance. But despite all of this, Michael still chooses to take relationship advice from Brian.


This episode marks the end of Brian's extremely overt and proactive attempts to undermine Michael's romance. But he will continue to work against the new couple. It's baffling that so many viewers forget, or choose to ignore Brian's poor behavior in regard to Michael's love life.



...................................end pt 2

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However, philistine/softcore porn fan that I am, I'd have preferrred a straight on, full view love scene. But perhaps this is being greedy because the full view close up shots of Justin against the bed with Brian close behind are both very intimate and highy erotic. At the point where the two interlock fingers, it's downright romantic.

I love that scene, very HOT, HOT, HOT . The interlock fingers was the romantic touch they gaveto the scene.

The fitting in theory gets some support by the way David helps himself to Brian's drugs. But this could also be David invading Brian's personal space in some sort of mini powerplay.

And I think David wanted to show Brian that "anything you can do, I can do better". Two male alpha dogs. David is not afraid of Brian. I like that. David and Brian could never be a couple.

Why on earth does Lindsay need two thousand dollars for a near newborn? Mel and Linds are two professional women, yet they are constantly going to Brian for money. And Melanie doesn't even have the decency to be gracious about it.

This is what I hate about these two women, who have salaries of their own. In the hospital Lindsay refused Brian's financial assistance, but now keeps asking for money. WTF?

It is very brief, largely hidden by wildflowers, and not very well choreographed. But David and Michael in the woods is the first sex/nude scene of any regular male cast members outside of Justin and Brian.

Yes, it was. But honestly, that scene didn't do anything for me. I still think that the best couples in the show are those with one straight actor + one gay actor. Two straight actors play the less hot scenes .

Brian has never been in a romantic relationship, nor does he have any interest in being in one.

You know, this is what is hard for me to believe. This is what Brian says, and Michael thinks. I think he had at least a crush on his gym teacher, the one he had sex with.

"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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That love scene was"HOT,HOT,HOT" indeed. Brian and Justin at their best.


Could never invision David and Brian as a couple. But hear there is, or at least used to be, a fanfiction story out there where the two have sex, with Brian on the bottom. Even the thought of that is funny.

Will never stop wondering why these women needed any money from Brian. Let alone why they needed so much.

David and Michael's outdoor sex scene didn't do anything for me either. And that comes from someone who actually appreciates everyone's love scenes. But it was a first, so I thought it was worth mentioning. Totally agree that one gay and one straight actor gave the best results as far as on screen lovemaking goes. Often wonder if the creators went for the gay/ straight combination deliberately. Also wonder if the experience with Chris Potter and Sparks had anything to do with it.

Don't think Brian secretly wanted to be in relationship. Do think he had a crush on his gym teacher. But a crush does not always mean you want to get involved on a long term basis.

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Could never invision David and Brian as a couple. But hear there is, or at least used to be, a fanfiction story out there where the two have sex, with Brian on the bottom. Even the thought of that is funny.

I can't even imagine that. But I couldn't imagine [spoiler] Brian and Ben having sex and they did; with Bem on the bottom. [spoiler]


Often wonder if the creators went for the gay/ straight combination deliberately.

This is something that I wanted to know. When they had the reunion (the one that is in the DVD in the box set) Bob Gant talked about his love scenes with Hal Sparks. It's like the gay actor helps the straight actor in the love scenes, showing that it's no big deal. At one point Bob said Hal was terrified when Ben and Michael had sex for the first time. Then Bob said to Hal (at the moment of teh scene): " I know this feels weird, especially because if you were gay you'd probably be the top. Apparently that calmed hal's nerves.

As for Mel and Lindsay, Thea is bissexual (she told a long story in a radio show about being in love with a female teacher when she was a teenager. Michelle is apparently straight, but in the same radioshow she said she is "heteroflexible", whatever that means...



"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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I was put off with the way both of them appeared to be won over more by David's money than anything else. But still loved the way these siblings work together. Especially liked their look of expectancy and refreshing lack of coyness, when they wanted to know David's make of car and his cash flow.

I know!!! I hated that too. It's like they wanted to know if David was a good catch, if he could support Michael.


David and Michael's weekend trip nets some informative items. David's penchant of challenging projects is on display in the cabin they will sleep in, built by David himself, a sportfishing trophy, and relics of a failed attempt at heterosexuality.

David exudes masculinity through every pore. I think this is what Michael loves about him. He has more traits associated to masculinity than Brian.

And he continues to profess this support to Lindsay, as she hits Brian up for a large sum of money.

I was surprised that Brian didn't protest, he didn't even blink an eye when she said US$ 2.000. That's too much money to ask, despite him being Gus' father. They decided to have a baby and decided to support the baby. I wonder the destination of this US$ 2,000.

We arent told if David is Michael's first serious suiter or just the most tenacious of many who came before.

I believe David is the first excellent catch that comes Michael's way. I think Michael had some unimportant relationships before, but as he couldn't get over Brian, they never lasted.



"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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Yes. Its like the fact that David had money was the end of the argument, so to speak.


Never thought of that, but David is more masculine than Brian. And Michael was attracted to "manly men.

I'd like to know what they needed such a large sum for as well. Really can't even imagine what it could be. Just makes no sense at all.

Agree. It's not realistic to believe Michael never had any previous admirers. But who could contend with that Kinney worship he had. Had David not been so determined, beyond reason really, he'd have gone the way of the probable others.

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But think Brian was honest about not being impressed with Justin's piercing. What happened later was probably in spite of, rather than because of, Justin's new jewelry.

I agree. Brian was just a little devil, couldn't say no to Justin, especially when Justin comes offering himself like that!


"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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And Brian absolutely manipulated Michael to come back. Brian didn't need to tell Michael he was even in an accident. Yet Brian not only does this, but also mentions his concussion. And most telling of all, Brian tells Michael not to even think of cutting his trip short and coming back there. Therefor putting the idea in his head in case there was the slightest posibility that Michael hadn't thought of returning on his own.

I agree that Brian was totally manipulative. But Michael was very stupid to have fallen for it. He should never have came back, and David was totally right for being pissed.


Think Melanie talking to David outside of Brian's place might be an attempt to make ammends for what she said at the art show.

I think Melanie saw in David someone who could confront Brian, which is something no one else (except Emmett and Deb) could do. I think she wanted to show David who he was dealing with and telling him to fight for Michael (even Melanie couldn't confront Brian the way she wanted, especially because Brian is Gus' Dad.






"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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David indeed had a right to be pissed. But don't think it is stupid for someone to hurry back after being told by a friend that he has a concussion and a head injury. Michael had no way to know just how much damage was done.


It's true. Melanie couldn't deal with Brian to the extent that she would like because of Gus. Of course if it were not for Gus, she wouldn't have to deal much with Brian at all.

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David indeed had a right to be pissed. But don't think it is stupid for someone to hurry back after being told by a friend that he has a concussion and a head injury. Michael had no way to know just how much damage was done.

The stupid part is not realizing the manipulation. Michael calls Brian, Brian answers the phone, tells him what happened, assures him that he's ok. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be even answering phone calls, he would be at the hospital, or something. Besides, if Brian was in life danger, some of their mutual friends would have called Michael. So, I don't think there was any reason for Michael feeling the need to go running to see him, except his obssession. This time he really has a good guy who loves him and jeopardizes a good opportunity for an obssession. That being said, I have to say that I admire Michael for valueing friendship over romantic relationships. I think friendships- along with family relations - are the most important relationships a person can have. Romantic relationships come and go, but friends can be forever. Most people don't do that.

Anyway, I guess the writers had to show this situation because getting rid of his "Brian obssession" is part of the growth of the Michael character. As it is letting Michael go for the Brian character.



"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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Still don't consider Michael stupid in this case. Believe Michael, being an unusually unmanipulative person himself, fails to recognize it in Brian. Also, much like some qaf fans, he probably has a blind spot when it comes to Brian. And one can be out of the hospital but still be in bad, if not life threatening, shape.


Agree that friendship is extremely undervalued. Many people won't think twice about ignoring and even rejecting friends they've been close to for years for even the most remote romantic possibility.


Brian and Michael's friendship, at the time and in the form we see it, was no longer good for either of them. Because so many care only about Brian, nobody notices that it was no longer working in Michael's best interest either. Brian's batting away Michael's potential suiters, and Michael allowing Brian to do it, is a prime example of that.

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We open with Justin and Daphne at a piercing parlor so that Justin can get his nipple pierced. Apparently all of this is to get Brian to notice him more...okay. Ouch!

Too much extreme just to get a boyfriend’s attention, but not surprising for a teenager.

Jennifer lets Craig know that Justin is seeing someone - an older man named Brian.

I’ve always wondered if Jennifer hadto tell her husband about Justin. I mean, she could have told him that Justin is gay. Period. And wait until Craig had absorbed the news. A few days later she could have told him that Justin was sleeping with an older man. Two strong pieces of news is too much for the man to swallow at once.

I have to agree with Jennifer on this one. I love B/J, but this relationship, gay or straight, is inappropriate. I blame Brian for the bulk of it because he's the adult in this situation and continues to sleep with Justin even when he says he wants him gone.

Maybe the relationship is inappropriate because of the difference in their life experiences, not necessarily their age difference. I mean, being Brian who he is, an innocent teenager may seem helpless and vulnerable. But Justin is not that innocent and he know a trick or two of manipulation. But parents tend to see their kids as innocent and vulnerable, so Jennifer’s concern is understandable.

David doesn't know the plot of Lady and the Tramp? Really, show? Anyway, David invites Michael away for a romantic trip in the woods.

You know, romantic as that may sound - call me a prude - but I would never go to the woods and be naked in broad day light with a new boyfriend. Both Michael and David must be very comfortable about their bodies.

It's not. It's Craig who probably thinks Brian thinks he's talking to Justin. Either way, not a good first impression.

Agreed. Any parent would be terrified knowing their teen is going out with a man who answers the telephone like that.

Studs in Suds

I love Babylon’s theme parties: bigger basket contest, king of Babylon, cheast of death night, etc.

ICK. Michael post-coital calls Brian the first chance he gets. *sigh*. This relationship is creepy. Brian is manipulative, but no one forced Michael back.

Yeah, and David gets furious when he sees Brian’s manipulation. I loved that Melanie told David the truth about Brian. Made him wake up and smell the coffe.

Melanie is so annoying here sticking her nose where it doesn't belong. Are she and Michael even that close or does she just like bashing Brian wherever she can?

A little of both, I suppose. I think her intention was to help David to fight Brian. She thinks Brian may have found an equal, a rival.


"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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"I'm not antisocial, I just can't stand people." Justin Taylor

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Even though the David-Michael-Brian triangle and Justin's relationship with his parents are the two main storylines of this episode, I think it's worth noting that this is the first episode where we see Justin with the group without explaining how he got there. Even though he shows up at Woody's earlier in the episode (just prior to the hot sex scene), when they're all gathered around Brian at the end, there's no explanation of how he got there. He's just part of the group.

Every earlier episode, they show him chasing Brian or going to Deb's, or meeting with Mel & Linds on the street. this is the first time where it seems like he's just accepted as being part of things.

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I love seeing Justin as a part of the group! In 108 his presence in the group is even more consolidated.



"If Justin wants golden gardenias, he should have golden gardenias!" Brian Kinney

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"If Justin wants golden gardenias, he should have golden gardenias!" Brian Kinney [love9]

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I notice threads are bumped but no comments added (the last conversations are from 2014).

Why not just start a new thread?

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We have one thread for each episode, MiketheMechanic. We have to bump them every three to four weeks, othewise they will be deleted by IMDb. We are trying to keep them in the board so more people can read, enjoy and comment on them. Currently the people who write and comment on the reviews have been too busy in their personal lives, this is why there hasn't been a new review for a while. I'm writing a review of episode 118, but wasn't able to finish it yet. You are welcome to join us! 



If Justin wants golden gardenias, he should have golden gardenias! Brian Kinney

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Ok thanks! I was looking at each QAF marathon thread and wondering why they were bumped!

I will definitely join in, thank you so much!!

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Welcome, Mikethe Mechanic! 


If Justin wants golden gardenias, he should have golden gardenias! Brian Kinney

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